"Quiet Quitting" - it's nothing new.

[ChristineM]

Just sounds like another way of saying lazy people find excuses to be lazy.

What is lazy about doing what you are paid to do and no more?

Lazy is not doing what you are paid to do.

If brown nosing management is the way you expect to get promotion then there is something serious wrong with a company that encourages that.

 

[Secret Chief]

I agree.

Not everyone has that option unfortunately.

Most people, in my experience.

 

[Secret Chief]

The older version is called "retired in post."

 

[Wildswanderer]

What is lazy about doing what you are paid to do and no more?

Lazy is not doing what you are paid to do.

If brown nosing management is the way you expect to get promotion then there is something serious wrong with a company that encourages that.

Really? Going above and beyond is now brown nosing?
In my world, it's called being a good worker.
The person who does more than he has to should be promoted, because he's going to benefit the business and he should benefit from being a better worker.

 

[ChristineM]

Really? Going above and beyond is now brown nosing?
In my world, it's called being a good worker.
The person who does more than he has to should be promoted, because he's going to benefit the business and he should benefit from being a better worker.

Yes,

In my world its called slave labour

I promoted on ability to do the job, not creeping and smarmying to management.

Example, the quiet girl with a child in daycare always left on time to collect her child. Was an excellent artist and good team leader material
The wizkid trying to impress be "going above and beyond" was a good artist and only thought of himself.
Who gets the team leaders job?

 

[Wildswanderer]

Yes,

In my world its called slave labour

I promoted on ability to do the job, not creeping and smarmying to management.

Example, the quiet girl with a child in daycare always left on time to collect her child. Was an excellent artist and good team leader material
The wizkid trying to impress be "going above and beyond" was a good artist and only thought of himself.
Who gets the team leaders job?

Doing extra isn't smarming. It's being ambitious.

 

[ChristineM]

Doing extra isn't smarming. It's being ambitious.

Nope, its smarming.

A good boss will know who can do the work and who is creeping. A bad boss is gonna flavour the brown noser

 

[Twilight Hue]

Slightly at a tangent, but can we play "what if"?

Let's say that robotics and AI develop to the point where nobody has to work at all. The robots do everything. The only "work" that is still be done by humans is purely voluntary. Are people still "lazy" if they don't work?

Another question. Why is it in the USA that to praise someone we say "hard working". Isn't "works enough" sufficient? Why do we need to work "hard" to be approved of?

They see the work value transferred over to the robot or ai.

If people don't have any work value , the justification to no longer employ or pay them is gone. It simply stays with the robot or ai

Human beings essentially regarded as having no work value anymore will have no more paycheck.


It would be interesting to see if executives and ceos become subject to the same things as ai probably in due time will run business better than they can.

 

[gnomon]

This is why one should never work at something one doesn’t love. If you love what you do you never work.

If only that were the case for most people.

 

[Alien826]

I think there can definitely be something Holy about work. When my hands are busy, I can let my mind rest better. If I just sit, I go over all my problems and the world's problems and I can drive myself crazy.
But you being retired, have already worked and probably benefited from that work by being able to retire. That's far different than never having an occupation to start with. Look at the filthy rich. Generally their lives and relationships are a mess. They don't have to work so they get themselves in messes in all that leasure time.
So many men are without a sense of purpose today... and I think a lot of that is because they haven't been taught how to work. Yes some go to the other extreme and make work everything. That's easy to do also.

I'd put it another way. I'd say that you don't know how to handle leisure (not making this personal, it's a general problem). Having been brought up to see work as "holy", people find it difficult to feel comfortable not working. If your mind won't rest (and I'm very familiar with that) you revert to the comfort of work. I'd recommend meditation to calm the mind, or ... well, whatever you choose. The whole thing is that you should be able to feel calm and at rest when nothing in particular is going on. I used to be a great worrier. I'd worry about things I maybe didn't do right in the past and things that could go wrong in the future. If I couldn't think of anything to worry about, I'd worry that I'd forgotten something. It wasn't easy, but I don't do that any more.

Now, a sense of purpose. Yes that's important. But if you lack it, then isn't work just a drug to take your mind off it? Isn't the answer to find that purpose?

And yes, I worked for a living. Work is necessary in life. But I probably accumulated more money from the increase in value of houses I bought (just one at a time, I wasn't a real estate mogul) than I ever saved while working. And my work savings accumulated by being invested. Essentially, I made more from things that didn't involve work. I feel bad that these days there are so many people that don't have that opportunity. Back in the days of guaranteed company pensions one could have a job for life and be sure of a comfortable, if not luxurious, retirement.

Balance doesn't necessarily come naturally.

No, but shouldn't we still seek it?

As far as me, I will probably fall over working. I can't afford to retire.

I'm sorry. Everyone should have the chance of a work-free retirement.

 

[Alien826]

They see the work value transferred over to the robot or ai.

If people don't have any work value , the justification to no longer employ or pay them is gone. It simply stays with the robot or ai

Human beings essentially regarded as having no work value anymore will have no more paycheck.


It would be interesting to see if executives and ceos become subject to the same things as ai probably in due time will run business better than they can.

That's interesting though, as if nobody has a job, then who buys the stuff the robots make? If I that happens, then a paradigm shift will be necessary. The people who own the robots can't just get all the money, not only because it's unfair but because the system wouldn't work with no consumers. The answer I suggest is to simply give the stuff to everyone, with some kind of control over how much anyone could take. (That last thing might not be necessary. It might settle down naturally.) This would require huge shifts in what we now consider to be ethical. It will be OK to get stuff without working for it. Ownership of property will need a rethink. Education will have to prepare people for leisure, not work. The challenges would be many, but the rewards so worth it.

 

[Shaul]

Does anyone love paperwork?

Yes, origami artists.

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Really? Going above and beyond is now brown nosing?
In my world, it's called being a good worker.

I kind of think it depends on what needs to be done. I think if 'going above and beyond' means making lateral decisions, and completely switching hats, then that can throw a wrench in what I need to do at times. I could use that energy instead, to excel in my own lane, if I felt up to that task.

But if you are asking me to make a lateral decision, like one that's maybe more of a management decision, then my focus becomes diffuse. For example, assigning different tasks to people at a couple crucial moments throughout the day. Ok, I could do that, but now all of a sudden, I have to switch hats. And, I have to convince them to do something, almost like I am a boss. I am not a boss. And if they don't really want to something, then they might resent me a bit for bothering them.

But, if the organization of that task comes from above, it would instantly be a different story. Do you see what I mean

 

[amorphous_constellation]

If you really love it you love even the “bad” parts.

I don't know. Now you're talking about one of those areas of psychology I don't quite get, though in the past I thought I did. But I can't really imagine what it's like to be driving a semi in white-out conditions, while approaching a difficult grade.. or working high up, building a skycraper or something. Or certain things that do happen to the good cops or soldiers. It seems like a job gone bad can cause issues, and I'm not sure how common the "iron will" trait is, that you speak of

 

[amorphous_constellation]

Essentially, I made more from things that didn't involve work.

If time can be reversed a bit, I would try and figure that out

 

[Erebus]

Doing extra isn't smarming. It's being ambitious.

Okay, I'm picking on your post here but this isn't going to be directed solely at you.

I'm seeing a lot of shoulds in this thread. The people who work harder should be noticed by the boss. The people who work harder should get extra money. The people who work harder should get a promotion. Yeah, they should be... but they usually aren't.

I'll run through a scenario here that's again based on a UK millennial's perspective and is essentially a supplement to my previous post:

Let's say I go into a job in a multi-million pound company with offices all across the country. This company looks like it will give me the opportunity to climb the corporate ladder and get myself a lovely pay rise. The way I intend to achieve that is to do more work than I'm paid to. The problem is that doing extra work for no extra pay isn't a sign of being a good worker, it's the expected standard of an average worker.

So I work even harder than that until my work is noticed and appreciated by the person above me (usually a team manager). Great. The problem is that this person almost never has the power to offer me a promotion or a pay rise. That power usually rests with somebody several rungs up on the ladder and they might not even work in the same building as me.

Perhaps though my team manager at least has the ability to put my name forward if a promotion opportunity comes up. The problem with that is that both the public and private sectors in the UK are hyper-focused on cost cutting. It's entirely possible that a promotion opportunity is never going to come up.

But hey, maybe I'll get lucky and a promotion opportunity comes up. I've worked harder than anybody else and my team manager puts my name forward for the promotion. The problem is that my team manager isn't likely to be able to sit down with the boss to discuss my merits. My name is just one of many on a spreadsheet and whether or not I get the promotion is decided by somebody who's never met me.

Well that sucks, but at least my name is on that spreadsheet. There's still a chance I'll be picked, right? Well, not really. In practice, that promotion is going to go to somebody with seniority.* There are names on that spreadsheet who've been with the company for 20 years.

Ah but this is a classic example of millennial short-sightedness. If I stick with the company for 20 years and continue to work harder than anybody else, then if another promotion opportunity comes up, I can finally get that promotion along with the lovely pay rise I've been so keen on. The problem with that is that the people who started working at the company before me have better contracts with more job security. I've been on 12 month contracts with 12 month probationary periods. As soon as the company decides it's going to downsize again, I'll be among the first to go regardless of how much work I put in.

To top it all off, I could have been one of the people whose firing was predetermined from the start. My contract might say 12 months but I'm actually scheduled for the chopping block in 4 months. I have no way to know for certain if that's the case for me when I go into that job.


So yeah, I could do extra work for no extra money on top of the extra work that's already expected from me. I could provide the company with tens of thousands of pounds worth of free labour. Maybe by the end of it, I will indeed get some extra money. Ultimately though, it just isn't worth it. Ambition doesn't pay off for working class millennials in the UK.



*Unless it's a really high-paying promotion. Those don't go to people who start from the bottom.

 

[wellwisher]

When I was young I had the option to work and make money in the summer to save or buy things. Or I did not have to work, but I would not have any spending money. I chose not to work as much as possible and live life deliberately, as Thoreau said in his book about Walden Pond. Thoreau was one of the original quiet quitters. He left the drudgery of cultural life in Concord Ma, and lived in a small cabin at Walden Pond. Walden Woods and pond was not too far from where I lived as a boy and young man.

It is still a popular swim hole that is over 100 feet deep in the middle. Beyond the beach area, the water gets deep very fast. In two or three steps you are over your head. This allows the sediments to spill down to the cold depths, making the surface water very clear and clean. It was popular with the college age nannies, from all over the world, that baby sat the local children of the well off. It was also popular with swim clubs since the pond was about 1/2-3/4 mile long of boat free swimming. Only canoes were allowed. It is part of the National Park System.

It was more fun living in the moment, then working to get material buzzes that have an expiration date. Life at the pond never got old. But as you get older you will be less prepared for retirement, but able to manage with less from practice, and still be happy.

 

[Wildswanderer]

I'd put it another way. I'd say that you don't know how to handle leisure (not making this personal, it's a general problem). Having been brought up to see work as "holy", people find it difficult to feel comfortable not working. If your mind won't rest (and I'm very familiar with that) you revert to the comfort of work. I'd recommend meditation to calm the mind, or ... well, whatever you choose. The whole thing is that you should be able to feel calm and at rest when nothing in particular is going on. I used to be a great worrier. I'd worry about things I maybe didn't do right in the past and things that could go wrong in the future. If I couldn't think of anything to worry about, I'd worry that I'd forgotten something. It wasn't easy, but I don't do that any more.

Now, a sense of purpose. Yes that's important. But if you lack it, then isn't work just a drug to take your mind off it? Isn't the answer to find that purpose?

And yes, I worked for a living. Work is necessary in life. But I probably accumulated more money from the increase in value of houses I bought (just one at a time, I wasn't a real estate mogul) than I ever saved while working. And my work savings accumulated by being invested. Essentially, I made more from things that didn't involve work. I feel bad that these days there are so many people that don't have that opportunity. Back in the days of guaranteed company pensions one could have a job for life and be sure of a comfortable, if not luxurious, retirement.



No, but shouldn't we still seek it?



I'm sorry. Everyone should have the chance of a work-free retirement.

Oh I can certainly enjoy leasure time, if I've put in my work time. That's what Sabbath is about, taking a rest day to recoup spiritually and mentally, to find balance.
Right now I find it hard to achieve peace for other reasons than my occupation. Work is just one dimensional of living but an important part.

 

[Wildswanderer]

Nope, its smarming.

A good boss will know who can do the work and who is creeping. A bad boss is gonna flavour the brown noser

I suspect that term came from a lazy person who just didn't want to try hard enough to advance.

 

[Alien826]

Oh I can certainly enjoy leasure time, if I've put in my work time. That's what Sabbath is about, taking a rest day to recoup spiritually and mentally, to find balance.
Right now I find it hard to achieve peace for other reasons than my occupation. Work is just one dimensional of living but an important part.

Right now I'm trying to reconcile this with your previous post about the pond ...