Quran and women

[paarsurrey]

Quran values women, in fact it is the only revealed scripture of a religion which has named its chapter four of Quran as " Al-Nisa'" or " Women" and discusses marriage, relationship of women and men, love and marriage , if there is a dispute as to how to resolve it, how the infants should be looked after, separation, divorce etc, etc and etc.

There is no real value of a discussion if there is no comparison with others.
Those who would like to participate they should mention their religion, if they have no hesitation to declare it , for easy comparison.

The Atheists and their like, should quote from a text book of science, as the these people so often fall back on science as an ideal for humans, though science does not cover these aspects of human life and science is a common product of religions and non-religions in physical and material fields .

The Atheists and their like could also quote from one ideal book on these matters written by Atheists etc in the times of religious Heroes namely Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, for the purpose of comparison.

I hope, if one is not short of rich arguments, one would be respectful to the friends here and would not indulge in derision, ridicule so that the discussion is not disrupted. So kindly remain focused on the topic of the thread and good arguments.

Everybody is welcome and equally respected.
Regards

P.S.
Please do read my next post in this thread.

 

[paarsurrey]

There was a discussion going on between friend Shad and friend FearGod on Quran verse 4:35 which is from the chapter “Women” mentioned in the OP. Friend Shad has expressed in a message that he wants to continue to discuss the verse. I give the verse 4:35 with the verses in the context:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 4: Al-Nisa'النِّسَاء
[4:29]Allah desires to lighten your burden, for man has been created weak.
[4:30]O ye who believe! devour not your property among yourselves by unlawful means, except thatyou earnby trade with mutual consent. And kill not yourselves. Surely, Allah is Merciful to you.
[4:31]And whosoever does that by way of transgression and injustice, We shall cast him into Fire; and that is easy with Allah.
[4:32]If you keep away from the more grievous of the things which are forbidden you, We will remove from you your minor evils and admit you to a place of great honour.
[4:33]And covet not that whereby Allah has made some of you excel others. Men shall have a share of that which they have earned, and women a share of that which they have earned. And ask Allah of His bounty. Surely, Allah has perfect knowledge of all things.
[4:34]And to every one We have appointed heirs to what the parents and the relations leave, and also those with whom your oaths have ratified a contract. So give them their portion. Surely, Allah watches over all things.
[4:35]Men are guardians over women because Allah has made some of them excel others, and because they (men) spend of their wealth. So virtuous womenare those whoare obedient, and guard the secretsof their husbandswith Allah’s protection. Andas forthose on whose part you fear disobedience, admonish them and leave them alone in their beds, and chastise them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Surely, Allah is High, Great.
[4:36]And if you fear a breach between them, then appoint an arbiter from his folk and an orbiter from her folk. If they (the arbiters) desire reconciliation, Allah will effect it between them. Surely, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.
[4:37]And worship Allah and associate naught with Him, and show kindness to parents, and to kindred, and orphans, and the needy, and to the neighbour that is a kinsman and the neighbour that is a stranger, and the companion by your side, and the wayfarer, and those whom your right hands possess. Surely, Allah loves not the proud and the boastful,
[4:38]Who are niggardly and enjoin people to be niggardly, and conceal that which Allah has given them of His bounty. And We have prepared for the disbelievers an humiliating punishment,
[4:39]And for those who spend their wealth to be seen of men, and believe not in Allah nor the Last Day. And whoso has Satan for his companion, let him remember that an evil companion is he.
[4:40]And what harm would have befallen them, if they had believed in Allah and the Last Day and spent out of what Allah has given them? And Allah knows them full well.

http://www.alislam.org/quran/search2/showChapter.php?submitCh=Read+from+verse:&ch=4&verse=30

Regards

 

[dust1n]

Wait... what exactly is the nature of the debate? You just wish to see how various religions address women in some form or another?

 

[Iti oj]

science say both man and woman of any race are humans.

 

[Deidre]

Quran values women, in fact it is the only revealed scripture of a religion which has named its chapter four of Quran as " Al-Nisa'" or " Women" and discusses marriage, relationship of women and men, love and marriage , if there is a dispute as to how to resolve it, how the infants should be looked after, separation, divorce etc, etc and etc.

There is no real value of a discussion if there is no comparison with others.
Those who would like to participate they should mention their religion, if they have no hesitation to declare it , for easy comparison.

The Atheists and their like, should quote from a text book of science, as the these people so often fall back on science as an ideal for humans, though science does not cover these aspects of human life and science is a common product of religions and non-religions in physical and material fields .

The Atheists and their like could also quote from one ideal book on these matters written by Atheists etc in the times of religious Heroes namely Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, for the purpose of comparison.

I hope, if one is not short of rich arguments, one would be respectful to the friends here and would not indulge in derision, ridicule so that the discussion is not disrupted. So kindly remain focused on the topic of the thread and good arguments.

Everybody is welcome and equally respected.
Regards

P.S.
Please do read my next post in this thread.

Something that is unfortunate in some religions, and Christianity falls prey to this as well, is that there seems to be this need to discuss men and women as separate entities, that need to be 'handled' differently. We shouldn't be overly impressed that any religion treats women kindly. That is pretty much a humanitarian kind of thing, lol. I know why you are bringing this up, and your intentions are pure. Believe me, I know. But, it would be nice if the Abrahamic religions anyway, could come to some agreement that men and women are equal in person hood, and call it a day. There's no reason in my opinion, to create this wedge between men and women. But, as a believer now, I do believe that of course men and women are different, and that we should be authentically who we are as individuals. That to me, showcases the glory of God more so than merely following a rule book as to how I should view you, and how you should view me.

As a side note, I didn't realize that person hood is two words, until auto correct 'told' me.

 

[Iti oj]

Something that is unfortunate in some religions, and Christianity falls prey to this as well, is that there seems to be this need to discuss men and women as separate entities, that need to be 'handled' differently. We shouldn't be overly impressed that any religion treats women kindly. That is pretty much a humanitarian kind of thing, lol. I know why you are bringing this up, and your intentions are pure. Believe me, I know. But, it would be nice if the Abrahamic religions anyway, could come to some agreement that men and women are equal in person hood, and call it a day. There's no reason in my opinion, to create this wedge between men and women. But, as a believer now, I do believe that of course men and women are different, and that we should be authentically who we are as individuals. That to me, showcases the glory of God more so than merely following a rule book as to how I should view you, and how you should view me.

As a side note, I didn't realize that person hood is two words, until auto correct 'told' me.

well said

 

[freethinker44]

The Atheists and their like, should quote from a text book of science, as the these people so often fall back on science as an ideal for humans, though science does not cover these aspects of human life and science is a common product of religions and non-religions in physical and material fields .

The Atheists and their like could also quote from one ideal book on these matters written by Atheists etc in the times of religious Heroes namely Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, for the purpose of comparison.

Why should I only be allowed to quote from atheist materials. The whole point of becoming atheist was because I didn't want to limit myself.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why should I only be allowed to quote from atheist materials. The whole point of becoming atheist was because I didn't want to limit myself.

In other words you don't have anything to compare with religion. Atheism has given no thought to it. Why Atheists opt to be blank on most issues? Why they limit themselves in their own selves? Please open up.
Regards

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't need a book to tell me how to treat other groups of people.

 

[paarsurrey]

Something that is unfortunate in some religions, and Christianity falls prey to this as well, is that there seems to be this need to discuss men and women as separate entities, that need to be 'handled' differently. We shouldn't be overly impressed that any religion treats women kindly. That is pretty much a humanitarian kind of thing, lol. I know why you are bringing this up, and your intentions are pure. Believe me, I know. But, it would be nice if the Abrahamic religions anyway, could come to some agreement that men and women are equal in person hood, and call it a day. There's no reason in my opinion, to create this wedge between men and women. But, as a believer now, I do believe that of course men and women are different, and that we should be authentically who we are as individuals. That to me, showcases the glory of God more so than merely following a rule book as to how I should view you, and how you should view me.

As a side note, I didn't realize that person hood is two words, until auto correct 'told' me.

Because the women are delicate and tender and men are supposed to be tough.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I don't need a book to tell me how to treat other groups of people.

They say a good book is a good friend and companion.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Something that is unfortunate in some religions, and Christianity falls prey to this as well, is that there seems to be this need to discuss men and women as separate entities, that need to be 'handled' differently. We shouldn't be overly impressed that any religion treats women kindly. That is pretty much a humanitarian kind of thing, lol. I know why you are bringing this up, and your intentions are pure. Believe me, I know. But, it would be nice if the Abrahamic religions anyway, could come to some agreement that men and women are equal in person hood, and call it a day. There's no reason in my opinion, to create this wedge between men and women. But, as a believer now, I do believe that of course men and women are different, and that we should be authentically who we are as individuals. That to me, showcases the glory of God more so than merely following a rule book as to how I should view you, and how you should view me.

As a side note, I didn't realize that person hood is two words, until auto correct 'told' me.

Thanks for the good words for me. I appreciate.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

science say both man and woman of any race are humans.

I agree with you that man and woman of any race are humans.
Does science say it? Please
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Why should I only be allowed to quote from atheist materials. The whole point of becoming atheist was because I didn't want to limit myself.

Then one should be pleased to leave Atheism with one's own accord as Atheism does not make one unlimited. Does it?
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Wait... what exactly is the nature of the debate? You just wish to see how various religions address women in some form or another?

This is one aspect as to how since inception religions and non-religions have dealt, men with women or women with men.
Regards

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

They say a good book is a good friend and companion.
Regards

Sure, but I don't need it to tell me how to treat others.

 

[Shad]

In other words you don't have anything to compare with religion. Atheism has given no thought to it. Why Atheists opt to be blank on most issues? Why they limit themselves in their own selves? Please open up.
Regards

You are making an assumption here. At times work from antiquity does not survive. I am not aware of such materials but this does not mean people did or did not write about it.

You can read some close to modern views from Ernestine Louise Rose.

 

[paarsurrey]

Sure, but I don't need it to tell me how to treat others.

Nevertheless books are not blank even in novel one gets lessons as to how its characters dealt with one another, knowingly and or unknowingly one gets lessons from them. There is nothing bad about it. The same way one enjoys movies and is impressed or otherwise from its characters.
Regards

 

[leibowde84]

Quran values women, in fact it is the only revealed scripture of a religion which has named its chapter four of Quran as " Al-Nisa'" or " Women" and discusses marriage, relationship of women and men, love and marriage , if there is a dispute as to how to resolve it, how the infants should be looked after, separation, divorce etc, etc and etc.

There is no real value of a discussion if there is no comparison with others.
Those who would like to participate they should mention their religion, if they have no hesitation to declare it , for easy comparison.

The Atheists and their like, should quote from a text book of science, as the these people so often fall back on science as an ideal for humans, though science does not cover these aspects of human life and science is a common product of religions and non-religions in physical and material fields .

The Atheists and their like could also quote from one ideal book on these matters written by Atheists etc in the times of religious Heroes namely Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, for the purpose of comparison.

I hope, if one is not short of rich arguments, one would be respectful to the friends here and would not indulge in derision, ridicule so that the discussion is not disrupted. So kindly remain focused on the topic of the thread and good arguments.

Everybody is welcome and equally respected.
Regards

P.S.
Please do read my next post in this thread.

Are we aloud to share our opinion or line of reasoning without citing any source? What if it is, to the best of our knowledge, our own, original line of reasoning? Seems kinda rigid, but you are the OP, so can you clarify the guidelines?

 

[freethinker44]

Then one should be pleased to leave Atheism with one's own accord as Atheism does not make one unlimited. Does it?
Regards

This is a non-sequitur.