Quran and women

[leibowde84]

Quran values women, in fact it is the only revealed scripture of a religion which has named its chapter four of Quran as " Al-Nisa'" or " Women" and discusses marriage, relationship of women and men, love and marriage , if there is a dispute as to how to resolve it, how the infants should be looked after, separation, divorce etc, etc and etc.

There is no real value of a discussion if there is no comparison with others.
Those who would like to participate they should mention their religion, if they have no hesitation to declare it , for easy comparison.

The Atheists and their like, should quote from a text book of science, as the these people so often fall back on science as an ideal for humans, though science does not cover these aspects of human life and science is a common product of religions and non-religions in physical and material fields .

The Atheists and their like could also quote from one ideal book on these matters written by Atheists etc in the times of religious Heroes namely Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, for the purpose of comparison.

I hope, if one is not short of rich arguments, one would be respectful to the friends here and would not indulge in derision, ridicule so that the discussion is not disrupted. So kindly remain focused on the topic of the thread and good arguments.

Everybody is welcome and equally respected.
Regards

P.S.
Please do read my next post in this thread.

And, just out of honest curiosity, do you consider the Quran to grant or endorse any God-given power over women inside marriage? Again, just an honest question.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The Atheists and their like, should quote from a text book of science, as the these people so often fall back on science as an ideal for humans, though science does not cover these aspects of human life and science is a common product of religions and non-religions in physical and material fields .

The Atheists and their like could also quote from one ideal book on these matters written by Atheists etc in the times of religious Heroes namely Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, for the purpose of comparison.

Hi @paarsurrey
Not trying to derail, but no single book can represent atheist views, because there is no consolidated atheist view. There is no atheist dogma. I think that's good, you think it's not, but either way, we both agree there is no atheist dogma, I think.

Even if I waved a book about saying it showed how to treat other people, the next atheist could call me an idiot and say he found the book ridiculous. That's kinda what being an atheist is. Taking ALL available evidence, and muddling your way forth as best you are able.

 

[paarsurrey]

Are we aloud to share our opinion or line of reasoning without citing any source? What if it is, to the best of our knowledge, our own, original line of reasoning? Seems kinda rigid, but you are the OP, so can you clarify the guidelines?

I said "Everybody is welcome and equally respected", there is no restrictions.
But we human beings understand things in relative terms easily, comparison is always good for valuing a thing.
Land is in abundance in almost every country but comparison from place to place makes it a scarce commodity at one place but not another place. Water is in abundance in the planet earth but at places it becomes difficult to have water even to drink.
Welcome and regards.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Hi @paarsurrey
Not trying to derail, but no single book can represent atheist views, because there is no consolidated atheist view. There is no atheist dogma. I think that's good, you think it's not, but either way, we both agree there is no atheist dogma, I think.

Even if I waved a book about saying it showed how to treat other people, the next atheist could call me an idiot and say he found the book ridiculous. That's kinda what being an atheist is. Taking ALL available evidence, and muddling your way forth as best you are able.

That's a pretty LHP view of atheism. Hahaha.

 

[paarsurrey]

And, just out of honest curiosity, do you consider the Quran to grant or endorse any God-given power over women inside marriage? Again, just an honest question.

I don't get you fully. Please express yourself fully. Power to whom? Quran is an open book; pleas feel free to quote from it.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi @paarsurrey
Not trying to derail, but no single book can represent atheist views, because there is no consolidated atheist view. There is no atheist dogma. I think that's good, you think it's not, but either way, we both agree there is no atheist dogma, I think.
Even if I waved a book about saying it showed how to treat other people, the next atheist could call me an idiot and say he found the book ridiculous. That's kinda what being an atheist is. Taking ALL available evidence, and muddling your way forth as best you are able.

You mean the Atheists have no norms to quote or reference from?
Regards

 

[lewisnotmiller]

You mean the Atheists have no norms to quote or reference from?
Regards

There's no source of truth. Only sources of information.

 

[leibowde84]

I said "Everybody is welcome and equally respected", there is no restrictions.
But we human beings understand things in relative terms easily, comparison is always good for valuing a thing.
Land is in abundance in almost every country but comparison from place to place makes it a scarce commodity at one place but not another place. Water is in abundance in the planet earth but at places it becomes difficult to have water even to drink.
Welcome and regards.

I think I agree with that. I am just confused as to why you start your OP with that if anything is OK. You mentioned atheists citing science textbooks, which seems counter-intuitive and misplaced. "Atheism" is being without a belief in any dieties. The scientific method, or "science" as you put it, is a method of using repeated experimentation and observation to develop and demonstrate a valid "scientific theory" which then can be used to make predictions and be relied upon.

I don't get how you equate such a general classification simply referring to a lack of belief in deities with a very specific method of gaining understanding about the cosmos. Can you explain your reasoning?

 

[leibowde84]

I don't get you fully. Please express yourself fully. Power to whom? Quran is an open book; pleas feel free to quote from it.
Regards

Just asking for your opinion. Honest curiosity.

 

[leibowde84]

You mean the Atheists have no norms to quote or reference from?
Regards

There are no authorities in both atheism and science. Atheism is too general a concept (just like theism), and science is constantly evolving and improving upon itself, gaining understanding of the physical universe. So, I don't get why you asked the qiestion. Stubbornness about the validity of an ancient book is, facially at least, not a good thing. So what is your reasoning for doing so?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

slam reduces women's rights
And Islam does not respect women
And Islam oppresses women
Read the verse that says if you are on a turd or sensed women اذا كنتم على غائط او لامستم النساء
This verse, in which the women and faeces are in the same measurement
Inheritance women have half the share of men
Witnesses in
Women not accept the witnesses to whom he must have two women
Divorce from the right of men only
And women seeking to differentiate suit
Beating womenSo women are oppressed in Islam

 

[Augustus]

As a side note, I didn't realize that person hood is two words, until auto correct 'told' me.

Thus spake Autocorrect, a tyrant spreading doubt into the minds of God's creatures. A vainglorious scourge that existeth only to find fault, never good, and delighteth in the shaming the words of honest typists. Trust in the pureness of your judgments though and ye shall find redemption in that your personhood is more powerful than a perfidious algorithm.

 

[FearGod]

Something that is unfortunate in some religions, and Christianity falls prey to this as well, is that there seems to be this need to discuss men and women as separate entities, that need to be 'handled' differently. We shouldn't be overly impressed that any religion treats women kindly. That is pretty much a humanitarian kind of thing, lol. I know why you are bringing this up, and your intentions are pure. Believe me, I know. But, it would be nice if the Abrahamic religions anyway, could come to some agreement that men and women are equal in person hood, and call it a day. There's no reason in my opinion, to create this wedge between men and women. But, as a believer now, I do believe that of course men and women are different, and that we should be authentically who we are as individuals. That to me, showcases the glory of God more so than merely following a rule book as to how I should view you, and how you should view me.

As a side note, I didn't realize that person hood is two words, until auto correct 'told' me.

Do you believe there's no need for a marriage contract between them as well ?

 

[Robert.Evans]

Why should I only be allowed to quote from atheist materials. The whole point of becoming atheist was because I didn't want to limit myself.

That's funny, as the one thing that being a theist did was free me.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

From what I know women have historically been second-class citizens in both Islam and Christianity.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

That's funny, as the one thing that being a theist did was free me.

Sure. Being a theist (assuming honest faith) would free you. In certain ways. Being an atheist can free you in others.

 

[Deathbydefault]

The Atheists and their like, should quote from a text book of science, as the these people so often fall back on science as an ideal for humans, though science does not cover these aspects of human life and science is a common product of religions and non-religions in physical and material fields .

The Atheists and their like could also quote from one ideal book on these matters written by Atheists etc in the times of religious Heroes namely Krishna, Zoroaster, Buddha, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad, for the purpose of comparison.

Atheists normally have enough intelligence to notice that women and men are equal.
A book is not needed to tell us something so basic.
And that you do need a book says a lot.

 

[Deathbydefault]

Because the women are delicate and tender and men are supposed to be tough.
Regards

There are thousands of women out there that can whoop us like they were ripping wet paper.
Not to mention every woman that has given birth is almost automatically tougher than most men.

I don't know if you were joking with your post or not.
But, if you weren't, consider it invalidated

 

[paarsurrey]

I think I agree with that. I am just confused as to why you start your OP with that if anything is OK. You mentioned atheists citing science textbooks, which seems counter-intuitive and misplaced. "Atheism" is being without a belief in any dieties. The scientific method, or "science" as you put it, is a method of using repeated experimentation and observation to develop and demonstrate a valid "scientific theory" which then can be used to make predictions and be relied upon.

I don't get how you equate such a general classification simply referring to a lack of belief in deities with a very specific method of gaining understanding about the cosmos. Can you explain your reasoning?

The Atheists don't rest with "simple lack of belief" they usually go ahead further and become Anti-Theists.
Regards

 

[freethinker44]

That's funny, as the one thing that being a theist did was free me.

Are you sure you're not just believing you're free when you're really just sitting in a cave watching shadows on the wall.