Quran has the best guidance about war and peace.

[loverofhumanity]

Where did you learn that?

From the Word of God. But without turning to the Word of God people will continue to be confused and conflict with one another about what is true and what is not.

Man’s views are often divisive because they put their own spin on everything according to their motives. But if we believe in God and trust His explanations because He is God and therefore All-Knowing, then we will have agreement.

By turning to God, we see with His Eyes and find truth because God is All Truth and perfect.

So a person claims that the Quran teaches violence but God says that the military expeditions of Muhammad were purely defensive. Now I wasn’t there nor the person interpreting the Quran taught violence but God WAS there and is All Knowing so I rely on God as the Eye Witness rather than someone who wasn’t there and is just speculating with their finite, fallible and human error prone mind.

God reveals to us the truth through His Prophets. Only by turning to Them can we get the truth. Believing ourselves to be right is the biggest mistake we can make because we are fallible and error prone. If we do not question ourselves that we may be wrong then we are in danger of our own minds misleading us.

But with God, He is never wrong, so we can get the truth from Him.

 

[stevecanuck]

Irrelevant. If you think that scares people to say "I have a Phd in zoology so I know the Quran better than you", it's absurd. Irrelevant.

He didn't come close to making such a claim. You just throw mud at the wall to see how much sticks. You contribute nothing of substance.

 

[stevecanuck]

But if we believe in God and trust His explanations because He is God and therefore All-Knowing, then we will have agreement.

Could you please direct me to where I might find "His explanations". Thank you in advance.

 

[firedragon]

He didn't come close to making such a claim. You just throw mud at the wall to see how much sticks. You contribute nothing of substance.

Lol. Oh yes. YOU contributed immensely. Thank you so much. You win a prize.

 

[icehorse]

Don't make claims about a book you have not studied brother. Don't do that.

Cheers.

Ah, but you see I have studied it. Just not the way your Imams want me to, because they all have an agenda. I've studied it from the perspective of cognitive science, because everyone who has ever read the book or heard about the book from others is using their human brains to learn and understand. So the cog. sci. perspective is the most universal. It transcends all the divisiveness and petty (albiet often bloody), arguments between Muslims and between Muslims and non-believers.

So from my perspective, you and your Imams - over the last 1400 years - have built a fragile "house of cards" in your explanations of the Quran's messages. It is interesting and useful to study that house of cards, but that field of study is not the one I've pursued. But I see no reason why my approach to studying the Quran is not useful. On the contrary, I think it's extremely useful. I understand that what I've learned is NOT what the faithful want to hear, but I'm playing the long game , brother.

 

[icehorse]

From the Word of God

Did you hear the word of god spoken from a holy person or from reading a book or where?

 

[Link]

Is it fair for me to connect the dots then and say that you support divisiveness between people because the Quran says that's okay?

Sure, I would probably be apathetic or just going for the fun life if I didn't know the truth through Quran, so sure.

 

[Link]

j

this is obviously could be a delusion of self-grandeur that believes and not having experienced all religions and their writings.

I said other books/religions can also teach the best regarding war and peace. But in my view, Quranic teachings are good as they get in this regard.

 

[loverofhumanity]

The Qur'an is believed to be the ultimate divine source in Islam. Correct?



And he told you everything he thinks you need to know about "what actually transpired" in the Qur'an. Correct?

So I rely on what the Prophets of God have stated as opposed to peoples views or opinions because God is the only reliable witness. So those biased against Islam will use biased interpretations out of context while the Divine reveals the truth.

No. Reading the Qur'an interpreted into other languages by fluently bilingual Islamic scholars puts non-Arabic speakers on an equal footing. The so-called bias of which you speak is simple revulsion of the message.

Again, the interpretations by scholars such as Yusuf Ali are not fallible. Please (as I channel another well known poster) give me 9 examples of "misinformed judgements" made by detractors of Islam and show your sources.[/QUOTE]


I don’t have to give you just nine. I believe every detractor of Islam, billions of them, have led themselves astray by following blindly, others such as clerics and priests. I have great respect for Yusuf Ali but He is not a Prophet so his knowledge is limited by his own human limitations. But I love his translation.

Yes, the Divine, Who was there, knows everything and reveals the truth through His Messengers and we get it from them, not our own fallible minds.

 

[Link]

Utter nonsense. You can't support those claims with quotes.

Sure I can. For example see Surah Shura the phrase "there is no dispute between us and you" and attempts to keep the peace early on and stop hostility. The "there is no dispute between us and you, you have your actions and we have our actions" is also related to a previous "I have been ordered to act justly amidst of you" and this leads to the verses I quoted later as a warning that if they oppress, Mohammad (s) will seek victory, and if they do not seek to oppress and seek peace, Mohammad (s) would forgive their words against him and remain peaceful as well.

 

[firedragon]

Ah, but you see I have studied it. Just not the way your Imams want me to

Ah but see, you are making more assumptions upon assumptions. You see mate, people don't always study based on what imams want someone to study.

Anyway, since you have studied the book so well, can you tell me who the book is intended to? Who is it addressing predominantly and declared the writer himself? (Methodologically leaving God aside).

 

[firedragon]

So from my perspective, you and your Imams - over the last 1400 years

It's not your perspective, it's your conjecture. Your bias. Your bigotry. You are making sweeping assumptions about people. You are acting God.

You are, your God. You worship yourself. that's the whole problem. You think you know other peoples psychoanalitics without engaging with it. That's a special power.

You don't know anything about me mate. Don't make pathetic assumptions because you think others make as shallow research as you do.

Study a little.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Did you hear the word of god spoken from a holy person or from reading a book or where?

From the revealed written Word of God revealed by Baha’u’llah.

 

[Link]

Salam

I would say Surah Kaffiron is peaceful hostility. It's hostile and distances oneself from disbelievers, but with a call to a peaceful harmony type way.

 

[KWED]

Quote the verses.

This puzzles me.
As a self-proclaimed Quran expert, you'd think you'd know the verse.
So, do you know and you are testing to see if I know (which I obviously do, or I wouldn't have brought it up).
Or do you not know and you are asking for my help (but you'd think that you would look it up yourself and claim that you always knew to hide your ignorance).
Anywho.
33:26

 

[Fool]

I said other books/religions can also teach the best regarding war and peace. But in my view, Quranic teachings are good as they get in this regard.

love is good. everything else is of no consequence. love isn't afraid of trying change. that is what ever lasting life is, nothing but change. friendly, warm, pretending to be different outwardly being of the same mind within

 

[loverofhumanity]

Could you please direct me to where I might find "His explanations". Thank you in advance.

Here is one about the Quran specifically.

“Say: Perused ye not the Quran? Read it, that haply ye may find the Truth, for this Book is verily the Straight Path. This is the Way of God unto all who are in the heavens and all who are on the earth.”

I would recommend the Book of Certitude where it is mentioned that we can reach a station of Certitude where we ‘see with the Eyes of God.’


“Only when the lamp of search, of
earnest striving, of longing desire, of passionate devotion, of fervid love, of
rapture, and ecstasy, is kindled within the seeker’s heart, and the breeze of
His loving-kindness is wafted upon his soul, will the
darkness of error be dispelled, the mists of doubts and misgivings be
dissipated, and the lights of knowledge and certitude envelop his being. At
that hour will the mystic Herald, bearing the joyful tidings of the Spirit,
shine forth from the City of God resplendent as the morn, and, through the
trumpet-blast of knowledge, will awaken the heart, the soul, and the spirit
from the slumber of negligence. Then will the manifold favours and outpouring
grace of the holy and everlasting Spirit confer such new life upon the seeker
that he will find himself endowed with a new eye, a new ear, a new heart, and a
new mind. He will contemplate the manifest signs of the universe, and will
penetrate the hidden mysteries of the soul. Gazing with the eye of God, he will
perceive within every atom a door that leadeth him to the stations of absolute
certitude.


The Kitáb-i-Íqán
Bahá’u’lláh

 

[Link]

This puzzles me.
As a self-proclaimed Quran expert, you'd think you'd know the verse.
So, do you know and you are testing to see if I know (which I obviously do, or I wouldn't have brought it up).
Or do you not know and you are asking for my help (but you'd think that you would look it up yourself and claim that you always knew to hide your ignorance).
Anywho.
33:26

Salam

That was battle of khaybar. There are also other verses of battles with people of the book who took side of Mushrikeen and fought against Muslims, but this particular is about Khaybar, and the strongholds is a hint to that.

 

[KWED]

What do you mean by intolerance?

Not tolerant of views, beliefs, or behaviour that differ from one's own.
Making rules that discriminate against those who believe differently.

The Quran does not accept disbelievers worship in Surah Kaffiroon, but then says:
To you is your religion and to me is mine.

The Quran repeatedly dismisses disbelievers and other faiths. There are great penalties for refusing to submit to Islam. Allah is fundamentally intolerant.

 

[Link]

Not tolerant of views, beliefs, or behaviour that differ from one's own.
Making rules that discriminate against those who believe differently.

What rules discriminate?

The Quran even shows, that Mohammad (s) did not force people of the book towards Quranic judgments, but would have let them judge per their own rulings if that is what they wanted.

We have hadiths to even allow incest if the people of that religion are allowed to do it, and not impose Quranic injunctions on people of other faiths nor make fun of them for it as part of their religion. I can quote these hadiths, but Quran shows Mohammad (s) for example, gave Jews option to judge per their own standards if they wished.

If anything, you can get away from rules of Islam if you are non-Muslim. This is why Iran allows Christians and Jews to sell alcohol for example.