Quran Scientific Miracles.

[KWED]

Each verse is different.

How does that work?
Either the sun is stationary or it isn't. It doesn't change its behaviour depending on which verse you are reading!
(Note: the sun is stationary. Any verse that describes it as moving in an orbit, etc (especially in the context of night and day) is wrong.
And if just one verse is wrong, the Quran is not from god and Islam is false.
QED.

I am OK to answer why I'm a Bahai, but it would be a topic for another thread. Here you made thread to discuss miracles in Qur'an.

Go on. A quick explanation. No one will mind.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

How does that work?
Either the sun is stationary or it isn't. It doesn't change its behaviour depending on which verse you are reading!
(Note: the sun is stationary. Any verse that describes it as moving in an orbit, etc (especially in the context of night and day) is wrong.
And if just one verse is wrong, the Quran is not from god and Islam is false.
QED.

.

this is about familiarity with terms used in Quran.
in the verse that says, it runs to its course, the word used is اجل مسمي. (AJAL).

This word, is regarding end time prophecies. So according to Quran, there is a Last Day, that has many signs. One of those signs is, the Sun becomes darkened. In this sense, the Sun has an End, when it no longer provides light. So, this is what the verse is talking about when it says it runs to its appointed end time. Meaning, it has a life, and it ends.

But the other verse, is not talking about End time. It is talking about physical movement of Sun in its own fixed place.

There is too much terms and words involved to understand what Quran says.
Obviously it will take a long time to go through each verse though.

Go on. A quick explanation. No one will mind.

I'm sorry I am OK if you open another thread for that.

 

[KWED]

this is about familiarity with terms used in Quran.
in the verse that says, it runs to its course, the word used is اجل مسمي. (AJAL).

This word, is regarding end time prophecies. So according to Quran, there is a Last Day, that has many signs. One of those signs is, the Sun becomes darkened. In this sense, the Sun has an End, when it no longer provides light. So, this is what the verse is talking about when it says it runs to its appointed end time. Meaning, it has a life, and it ends.

But the other verse, is not talking about End time. It is talking about physical movement of Sun in its own fixed place.

There is too much terms and words involved to understand what Quran says.
Obviously it will take a long time to go through each verse though.

That verse is describing how the sun and moon following their paths relates to night and day. There are other passages with the same concept. Plus the hadith where Muhammad explicitly talks about the sun moving through the sky to a resting place at night (all of which I have referenced). I fail to see how you can continue to claim that the Quran only describes a heliocentric system.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

That verse is describing how the sun and moon following their paths relates to night and day. There are other passages with the same concept. Plus the hadith where Muhammad explicitly talks about the sun moving through the sky to a resting place at night (all of which I have referenced). I fail to see how you can continue to claim that the Quran only describes a heliocentric system.

According to Hadithes, Day and Night are symbols for when there is guidance (light of Day), and when the guidance is lost(no light at night). So, those verses are symbolic. They are talking about a time, when there will be no more guidance, then Day follows night, meaning at that time, a new guidance comes. In Hadithes it is said, the Mahdi is like the Sun and His coming is the Day that follows night.
See verse 3:7. This is the key verse. It says some of its verses are Symbolic.

 

[paarsurrey]

The two are connected.
The claim is that the Quran contains specific scientific knowledge that could not possibly have been known at the time, therefore the source of this knowledge must have been "miraculous" (sent by god). I am sceptical that the Quran contains any such scientific knowledge and suspect that either there is no reference to "scientific facts", or if there is, it was knowledge already available at the time.

Science, I understand, is a human endeavor to know the principles under which G-d's Work- the Universe, runs in the physical and material realms. Quran- the Word of G-d, is for humans guidance in the Ethical, Moral and Spiritual realms, as I understand. Right?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

I have been hearing a lot of talk about the Quran containing specific scientific knowledge that could not possibly have been known at the time it was written, and that has only recently been confirmed by modern science.

Could anyone present a couple of best examples of these science miracles so we can see if they are what they claim to be?
Also, could you show where Islamic scholars have revealed this knowledge before science did?
Thanks

@MyM

Did one read the Quran from cover to cover oneself, please?
Did one find any such specific claim in Quran itself, please?
If yes, then kindly quote from Quran in this connection, please. Right?

Regards

 

[KWED]

Did one read the Quran from cover to cover oneself, please?
Did one find any such specific claim in Quran itself, please?
If yes, then kindly quote from Quran in this connection, please. Right?

Regards

I have read the Quran and I found nothing in there that seemed miraculous or even remarkable. It sounded exactly as if it was written by 7th century Arabs, based to a large extent on a variety of pre-existing beliefs and customs.

The issue here is with claims made by Muslim apologists, that the Quran contains specific scientific information that was not known at the time and could only have been revealed by god.
I accept that you dismiss these claims as false.

 

[paarsurrey]

I have read the Quran and I found nothing in there that seemed miraculous or even remarkable. It sounded exactly as if it was written by 7th century Arabs, based to a large extent on a variety of pre-existing beliefs and customs.

The issue here is with claims made by Muslim apologists, that the Quran contains specific scientific information that was not known at the time and could only have been revealed by god.
I accept that you dismiss these claims as false.

If Quran doesn't claim it, then why bother about it and comment on Quran, unnecessarily.
Quran gives claims and gist of the reasons in support of such claims . So , one's grievance is against such people not specifically about Quran. Shouldn't one have, therefore, defended Quran on this ground as one says one has read the Quran, please?
Obviously, one missed to note it. Right?
Regards

 

[KWED]

If Quran doesn't claim it, then why bother about it and comment on Quran, unnecessarily.

You seem to be missing the point. The "Quran scientific miracle" narrative is a major branch of Islamic apologetics. I appreciate that you consider it nonsense, but many apologists repeatedly cite it as evidence of the Quran being of divine origin. As my position is that5 eh Quran is not of divine origin, it is entirely reasonable for me to debunk those claims.

Quran gives claims and gist of the reasons in support of such claims . So , one's grievance is against such people not specifically about Quran.

You appear to have contradicted yourself there.

Shouldn't one have, therefore, defended Quran on this ground as one says one has read the Quran, please?
Obviously, one missed to note it. Right?
Regards

You've lost me now. Hopefully the above response clarifies it for you.

 

[paarsurrey]

You seem to be missing the point. The "Quran scientific miracle" narrative is a major branch of Islamic apologetics. I appreciate that you consider it nonsense, but many apologists repeatedly cite it as evidence of the Quran being of divine origin. As my position is that5 eh Quran is not of divine origin, it is entirely reasonable for me to debunk those claims.

You appear to have contradicted yourself there.

You've lost me now. Hopefully the above response clarifies it for you.

One will kindly appreciate that claim of something by G-d with reasonable arguments is a separate topic and Quran being of divine origin is a different topic.
It is for this that I pointed out of one's lapse that while reading Quran one could not observe if G-d claimed of the "Scientific Miracles" or not . Right?
I would therefore request one to read Quran from cover to cover again to get the reply from Quran itself. Right?

Regards

 

[KWED]

One will kindly appreciate that claim of something by G-d with reasonable arguments is a separate topic and Quran being of divine origin is a different topic.

If the Quran is not of divine origin, any claim about an Islamic god is therefore rendered meaningless, so they are very much linked.

It is for this that I pointed out of one's lapse that while reading Quran one could not observe if G-d claimed of the "Scientific Miracles" or not . Right?

I would therefore request one to read Quran from cover to cover again to get the reply from Quran itself. Right?

I have already addressed this. The Quran itself claims it is of divine origin. People claim to be able to prove that. Those claims are repeatedly debunked.
One of the things that arises from that is highlighting errors in the Quran. Any error proves it is not of divine origin.

 

[paarsurrey]

If the Quran is not of divine origin, any claim about an Islamic god is therefore rendered meaningless, so they are very much linked.

I have already addressed this. The Quran itself claims it is of divine origin. People claim to be able to prove that. Those claims are repeatedly debunked.
One of the things that arises from that is highlighting errors in the Quran. Any error proves it is not of divine origin.

First of all , for the existence of G-d or otherwise one would see first-person " claims " and the " reasons" given by G-d, please. Right?
It is the next step to know the attribute of G-d, which the word " divine " suggests, please. Agree?

Regards