Quran Scientific Miracles.

[Link]

Clear as day. No mountains = no earthquakes.
You really don't understand what you are posting, do you?

With no earthquakes, there would be no land like he explained. So if we have land, there will be earthquakes, but a lot less due to mountains or else it's constant shaking and movement.

 

[KWED]

people make up their own bro science rather then seek real science.

Words fail me.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

As your source admits (but downplays) several philosophers had described a heliocentric system centuries before the Quran was written, so any mention of heliocentricity in the Quran could not be claimed to be miraculous. However, the Quran describes a geocentric system. It claims that night and day are caused by the sun and moon moving in their orbits (21:33), when it is actually because of the rotation of the earth. The moon has nothing to do with night and day

No there aren't.

This is just dishonest apologetics. The Quran does not say that. It says "And the sun runs unto a fixed resting-place". The word for "runs" (tajrī) is used many times in the Quran to describe the flowing of rivers and sailing of boats, etc. It is describing a sun moving along a path. This is confirmed in 13:1221:33 and 31:29.

There is no suggestion of axial rotation.

But they don't. Such an observation implies a geocentric system. They only appear to move because of the rotation of the earth. They are fixed points relative to earth's position (which is why astronavigation works) And there is only one universe (heaven) containing the stars we see.

Even disingenuous apologetics deliberately designed to mask the errors in the Quran are wrong!

The only things I can offer:

One issue is the translation of the verses in Question:

وَٱلشَّمْسُ تَجْرِى لِمُسْتَقَرٍّۢ لَّهَا ۚ ذَلِكَ تَقْدِيرُ ٱلْعَزِيزِ ٱلْعَلِيمِ


I am not sure if you are familiar with Arabic.

The word لِمُسْتَقَرٍّۢ لَّهَا means in a place that it is fixed.
So, the correct translation is, the Sun moves in its fixed place. Meaning, the sun already have a location which is fixed, yet it moves.
It does not say "To" a fixed place. It says in its fixed place.

 

[Link]

Clear as day. No mountains = no earthquakes.
You really don't understand what you are posting, do you?

You mean I don't decontextualize like you but read whole thing?

 

[Augustus]

If no mountains at all, would earth shake a lot more? IT's actually very simple. This is a fact it got right.

If there were no mountains at all the earth would shake less because the main forces that caused mountains to appear also cause earthquakes.

So no mountains would require a reduction in the forces that causes mountains to appear and thus a reduction in the forces that cause earthquakes.

 

[sayak83]

Is there some kind of mass ignorance of real science due to this scientific fact in Quran. Again, what's with this kindergarten inferences. Let me quote a scientist:
No Plate Tectonics
To have a world with no mountains occur naturally, there must be no plate tectonics. To have no plate tectonics, there must either be no moon, or the moon must be tidally locked to prevent its gravitic influence causing heat-producing deformation of the world.

A consequence of this is that there would be no earthquakes and erosion would eventually level land and sea-floor alike until it was eventually all an equal depth beneath the water (aside from small solar tides). There would be no geomagnetic field (that being caused by the same processes as plate tectonics), which would allow higher radiation levels at the surface.

The Mountains were taken away!
If earth's mountains were magically instantly removed, there would be immediate repercussions. All that stone has mass, and the crust beneath which had been pressed into the mantle would rebound, causing worldwide earthquakes. Volcanoes would erupt as their plugs of stone were removed or weakened.

All this is not considering the effects on the global weather patterns.

In the long term, mountains would reappear as plate tectonics continued to deform the landscape.

I am seeing here no discussion at all regarding mountains ability to prevent or minimize earthquakes. Quite the opposite. No mountains would have meant no plate tectonics and hence no earthquakes. That is what happens in the mountain free stable cratons that form the interior of continents.

 

[Link]

I am seeing here no discussion at all regarding mountains ability to prevent or minimize earthquakes. Quite the opposite. No mountains would have meant no plate tectonics and hence no earthquakes. That is what happens in the mountain free stable cratons that form the interior of continents.

If no mountains, sure no earthquakes, but no land either, but just water everywhere. He's saying if we have the land now and move mountains off, it would be severe constant earthquakes.

 

[KWED]

The only things I can offer:

One issue is the translation of the verses in Question:

وَٱلشَّمْسُ تَجْرِى لِمُسْتَقَرٍّۢ لَّهَا ۚ ذَلِكَ تَقْدِيرُ ٱلْعَزِيزِ ٱلْعَلِيمِ


I am not sure if you are familiar with Arabic.

The word لِمُسْتَقَرٍّۢ لَّهَا means in a place that it is fixed.
So, the correct translation is, the Sun moves in its fixed place. Meaning, the sun already have a location which is fixed, yet it moves.
It does not say "To" a fixed place. It says in its fixed place.

No. It says that it moves to a fixed place. Remember that the word for "move" is one repeatedly used to describe linear movement, like rivers flowing and boats sailing, not spinning in a fixed spot.

The idea that the sun went to a resting place during the night was a long established one. The concept of the sun moving through and orbit is repeated several times in the Quran.

There are sahih hadith where Muhammad confirms this...
"Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place"

Claiming that the Quran describes a heliocentric system and a rotating sun is simply unsupportable.

 

[Sheldon]

That a cringey 1980s Saudi government funded apologetics PR initiative based on tenuous reading of scripture and highly contrived reasoning is , wait for it....., unpersuasive to non-Muslims as it is obviously a cringey apologetics PR initiative based on tenuous readings of scripture and highly contrived reasoning

You might want to read the multiple claims of this ilk made here daily, by many posters, claiming to be Muslims. I suspect QWED has started this thread, in order to focus discussion exclusively on such absurd claims, as they seem to be clogging or appearing in, multiple threads on here.

Your interpretation of such claims, while entirely reasonable and rational, might better be directed at those posters making them.

 

[Sheldon]

There are several threads on here where people keep dropping these claims and the subsequent to and fro gets lost in the other issues being discussed. I wanted a dedicated thread on the subject. Religious debate, and all that?

Ah, beat me to it.

 

[Sheldon]

OK. But you won't get many - if any - takers this way, as it's too obviously coat-trailing. People periodically try this approach with the Christian creationists and draw a blank. Nobody comes forward just to be hammered.

I think you'll have more luck drawing out the views of individual people when they express such ideas incidentally in other threads.

Well I think he's going to need a bigger "gloat" sorry...boat...

How about the words used for mountains. Did people know mountains were like pegs into the earth and stabilized earth from constantly shaking?

 

[Sheldon]

If no mountains at all, would earth shake a lot more? IT's actually very simple. This is a fact it got right.

To me no scientific sign is a miracle, because Jinn know all these things.

Mountains and earthquakes are both caused by tectonic plate shift.

 

[Sheldon]

I'm talking over all earth. If no mountains. But you don't know your science, just like you know nothing in general. I'm out.

They are prone to earthquakes, why? Same reason as to why if no mountains, there would be so many more earthquakes.

You don't know anything. Not even things you make yourself an expert on.

The same natural phenomena that cases mountains, causes earthquakes, plate tectonics. Did you not know this, seriously?

"Most volcanoes, mountains, and earthquakes occur where plates meet. ... Earth's thin outer shell is broken into big pieces called tectonic plates. These plates fit together like a puzzle, but they're not stuck in one place. They are floating on Earth's mantle, a really thick layer of hot flowing rock."

Mountains don't stop earthquakes, they are both cause by tectonic plate shift.

<LINK>

 

[InvestigateTruth]

No. It says that it moves to a fixed place. Remember that the word for "move" is one repeatedly used to describe linear movement, like rivers flowing and boats sailing, not spinning in a fixed spot.

The idea that the sun went to a resting place during the night was a long established one. The concept of the sun moving through and orbit is repeated several times in the Quran.

There are sahih hadith where Muhammad confirms this...
"Verily it (the sun) glides till it reaches its resting place under the Throne. Then it falls prostrate and remains there until it is asked: Rise up and go to the place whence you came, and it goes back and continues emerging out from its rising place"

Claiming that the Quran describes a heliocentric system and a rotating sun is simply unsupportable.

The word "to" in Arabic is إلى (pronounced ilaa.

Which is not in in this verse
In Arabic when they want to say, something moves to somewhere they will say ila(الى).
We need to be fair. I am not asking you to agree the Quran is divine. We are not trying to suit the translation to what we want it to say. It simply does not say that "to". Ask any Arab speaking to see if what I'm saying is true.

If I have time I will show some verses or Arabic Hadith to show that.

 

[stevecanuck]

How about the words used for mountains. Did people know mountains were like pegs into the earth and stabilized earth from constantly shaking?

Yeah, not so much. You're referring to verse 78:7, but you completely defeat your own argument by doing so, A peg is, by definition, a foreign material such as wood or steel that is imported and driven into the ground to secure a tent or blanket.

Mountains are not that. They are comprised of the material that you claim is being secured. Verses 21:31 and 15:19 restate Allah's error by saying, "We have set on the earth mountains", thereby clearly implying they are imported rather than upheaved. The only miracle is that people can be made to believe that which is so easily debunked.

 

[Audie]

OK. So what "scientific knowledge is expressed there?
The existence of mountains is clearly apparent.
"Standing firm" is somewhat vague, but seems to imply an ignorance of the fact that mountains are not necessarily permanent or fixed. Mountain ranges grow and shrink through tectonic and volcanic activity and erosion.
"Lest it should shake with you" implies that mountains prevent earthquakes. This is certainly not the case. Some of the most earthquake-prone regions of the world are mountainous, and many mountain-free regions do not experience any earthquakes.

Also, god did not set up roads. That are, by definition, man-made.

Mountains form mainly from tectonics.
They are not " placed" for human convenience.

 

[KWED]

The word "to" in Arabic is إلى (pronounced ilaa.

Which is not in in this verse
In Arabic when they want to say, something moves to somewhere they will say ila(الى).
We need to be fair. I am not asking you to agree the Quran is divine. We are not trying to suit the translation to what we want it to say. It simply does not say that "to". Ask any Arab speaking to see if what I'm saying is true.

If I have time I will show some verses or Arabic Hadith to show that.

You are avoiding my actual argument.
The Quran uses "tajrī" to describe the movement of the sun. That word refers to a linear movement along a path. The "to", "unto" "towards" is how several bilingually fluent, Islamic scholars translate "limus'taqarrin". (So yes, I have consulted Arabic speakers. Several experts in the Quran)
Additionally, there are several other passages that describe the sun moving "in an orbit" etc. Muhammad explicitly confirms this in sahih hadith.
There is nothing in the Quran that suggests a heliocentric system and much that suggests a geocentric one.
Why are you not addressing all this rather than focussing on a straw man? (Rhetorical question )

 

[Clara Tea]

And He has set up on the earth mountains standing firm, lest it should shake with you; and rivers and roads; that ye may guide yourselves (Qur'an 16.15, Yusuf Ali translation).​

Something about mountains keeping the land from shaking. My favorite claim! Research shows that the power of an earthquake can be reduced by mountains, and that the power of an earthquake can even be multiplied by mountains. Regardless of how some mountains influence earthquakes, what does 'lest it (the land) should shake with you' even mean? We shake, which triggers the land to shake, so mountains are there to keep it from shaking with us? That, from my perspective, is silly.

Interestingly, the Arabic word in the Qur'anic verse above translated above as 'with' as in 'shake with you' is bi. This word can also be translated as 'because of' or 'on account of.' In my opinion, a better translation would be, 'lest it should shake because of you.' As for the land shaking, is it literally or figuratively shaking? I say figuratively. If I were a Muslim, I would interpret the verse to mean that one reason mountains exist is so that the land does not 'shake' in anger because of human beings. Human beings destroy all kinds of life wherever they go. Without mountains, there would be a lot less biodiversity. Thanks to mountains, the land, the earth has a large variety of life that human beings have not obliterated. So, I guess the land is not shaking in anger and asking its creator to relieve it of humanity.

Thicker crust doesn't rupture as easily. Maybe it is saying that mountains are in a thick part, so less likely to quake.

Thel Rocky Mountains of Colorado are on a thick part of the crust, yet, the Rocky Mountain Arsenal fracked a lot in the mid-1960's which produced manmade quakes.

The Sierra Nevada mountains of California sit on top of a subduction zone as the Pacific Plate slides underneath the North American crustal plate. So, they do experience quakes (or nearby fault zones do, such as the San Adreas Fault that runs up the San Joquin Valley. Many of the faults occur in the valley floor. For example, the Owens Valley quake that occurred near Lone Pine, was a thrust fault that moved up 14 feet for miles of length, and ruptured the aquafir so that the eastern part of it had an iron taste.

10 of the Largest "Super Volcanoes"

Of course, the presence of a super-volcano in the middle of the United States should not be overlooked (Yellowstone). If that ever blew (fully that is) it would chop the US in two and likely kill everyone in the United States. There are other super-volcanoes in the world, and those are the Deccan Traps of India.

We are in the end times, the poles are melting, and that removes weight at the poles and distributes it at the equator, producing quakes and volcanoes on stressed fault lines. So, we should expect a lot more quakes in Unalaska, Sumatra, Lake Toba, Cerro Guacha, etc.

 

[Clara Tea]

Mountains form mainly from tectonics.
They are not " placed" for human convenience.

I don't like mountain driving. I was wondering if they would mind moving the mountain to one side to let me drive through, then moving it back again as soon as I pass. (Joking).

 

[Clara Tea]

I don't believe Quran is much about science. It is about a way of life for people of previous age (not for our age).

But it has very few science related statements which are not really meant to teach science but rather these are spiritual teachings by using metaphors.

I present one for you, from what Abdulbaha explains:

"...before the observations of modern times—that is to say, during the first centuries and down to the fifteenth century of the Christian era—all the mathematicians of the world agreed that the earth was the center of the universe, and that the sun moved. The famous astronomer who was the protagonist of the new theory discovered the movement of the earth and the immobility of the sun. 5 Until his time all the astronomers and philosophers of the world followed the Ptolemaic system, and whoever said anything against it was considered ignorant. Though Pythagoras, and Plato during the latter part of his life, adopted the theory that the annual movement of the sun around the zodiac does not proceed from the sun, but rather from the movement of the earth around the sun, this theory had been entirely forgotten, and the Ptolemaic system was accepted by all mathematicians. But there are some verses revealed in the Qur’án contrary to the theory of the Ptolemaic system. One of them is “The sun moves in a fixed place,” which shows the fixity of the sun, and its movement around an axis. 6 Again, in another verse, “And each star moves in its own heaven.” 7 Thus is explained the movement of the sun, of the moon, of the earth, and of other bodies. When the Qur’án appeared, all the mathematicians ridiculed these statements and attributed the theory to ignorance. Even the doctors of Islám, when they saw that these verses were contrary to the accepted Ptolemaic system, were obliged to explain them away."

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 18-24

The sun is so massive, that it appears not to move from our perspective. Actually, both the planets and the sun move about the center of mass of the entire system. Considering just the earth and the sun for a moment, that is a point along a line connecting earth and the sun, but that point is not in the exact center of the sun.

The sun shines brilliantly...so brilliant, that it might become a doctor.....just think of it....my doctor the sun. (another joke).