Quran Scientific Miracles.

[KWED]

"...before the observations of modern times—that is to say, during the first centuries and down to the fifteenth century of the Christian era—all the mathematicians of the world agreed that the earth was the center of the universe, and that the sun moved. The famous astronomer who was the protagonist of the new theory discovered the movement of the earth and the immobility of the sun. 5 Until his time all the astronomers and philosophers of the world followed the Ptolemaic system, and whoever said anything against it was considered ignorant. Though Pythagoras, and Plato during the latter part of his life, adopted the theory that the annual movement of the sun around the zodiac does not proceed from the sun, but rather from the movement of the earth around the sun, this theory had been entirely forgotten, and the Ptolemaic system was accepted by all mathematicians.

As your source admits (but downplays) several philosophers had described a heliocentric system centuries before the Quran was written, so any mention of heliocentricity in the Quran could not be claimed to be miraculous. However, the Quran describes a geocentric system. It claims that night and day are caused by the sun and moon moving in their orbits (21:33), when it is actually because of the rotation of the earth. The moon has nothing to do with night and day

But there are some verses revealed in the Qur’án contrary to the theory of the Ptolemaic system.

No there aren't.

One of them is “The sun moves in a fixed place,” which shows the fixity of the sun,

This is just dishonest apologetics. The Quran does not say that. It says "And the sun runs unto a fixed resting-place". The word for "runs" (tajrī) is used many times in the Quran to describe the flowing of rivers and sailing of boats, etc. It is describing a sun moving along a path. This is confirmed in 13:1221:33 and 31:29.

and its movement around an axis. 6

There is no suggestion of axial rotation.

Again, in another verse, “And each star moves in its own heaven.” 7

But they don't. Such an observation implies a geocentric system. They only appear to move because of the rotation of the earth. They are fixed points relative to earth's position (which is why astronavigation works) And there is only one universe (heaven) containing the stars we see.

Even disingenuous apologetics deliberately designed to mask the errors in the Quran are wrong!

 

[KWED]

The formation of mountains occurred how?

Some by tectonic collision, folding, upheaval, some by volcanic activity,

And how did earth stabilize in the first place?

Gravity and cooling.

Like I said, you have no clue. Just ask a scientist who knows these things, if you don't. Stop talking non-sense.

You are talking to a postgrad qualified scientist in environmental science.
And you did a "philosophy course" where an "atheist professor" told you that morality is objective.

Please, just stop.

 

[KWED]

You are saying if no mountains, the earth would not shake a lot more?

If there were no mountains it would mean there was far less tectonic and volcanic activity, which would mean fewer earthquakes, as earthquakes are caused by tectonic and volcanic activity.
It really is very simple.
Mountains do not prevent earthquakes. Mountains go hand in hand with earthquakes.

 

[KWED]

This is kindergarten science inference. Go research the real science.
You're inference is wrong. The mountain regions have more earthquakes true. Your conclusion, it means earth would shake less without mountains is foolish and doesn't even understand why they have more activity.

Dear god!

You claim that mountains prevent earthquakes.
I presented clear evidence that mountainous areas are the most earthquake prone.

You claim that if there were no mountains there would be more earthquakes.
I explained how if there were no mountains there would be no processes that cause earthquakes, therefore no earthquakes.

And yet you still keep repeating the same irrational nonsense.

 

[Link]

If there were no mountains it would mean there was far less tectonic and volcanic activity, which would mean fewer earthquakes, as earthquakes are caused by tectonic and volcanic activity.
It really is very simple.
Mountains do not prevent earthquakes. Mountains go hand in hand with earthquakes.

They don't prevent all earthquakes. But you don't know what you are talking about like I said:

This seem to be answer by a scientist if there would be no mountains on earth right now, what would be the state:

No Plate Tectonics
To have a world with no mountains occur naturally, there must be no plate tectonics. To have no plate tectonics, there must either be no moon, or the moon must be tidally locked to prevent its gravitic influence causing heat-producing deformation of the world.

A consequence of this is that there would be no earthquakes and erosion would eventually level land and sea-floor alike until it was eventually all an equal depth beneath the water (aside from small solar tides). There would be no geomagnetic field (that being caused by the same processes as plate tectonics), which would allow higher radiation levels at the surface.

The Mountains were taken away!
If earth's mountains were magically instantly removed, there would be immediate repercussions. All that stone has mass, and the crust beneath which had been pressed into the mantle would rebound, causing worldwide earthquakes. Volcanoes would erupt as their plugs of stone were removed or weakened.

All this is not considering the effects on the global weather patterns.

In the long term, mountains would reappear as plate tectonics continued to deform the landscape.



My comment: Anyways, I'm not an expert on this. But I've researched it a long time ago. Long time. But there is even new theories now with computer models that supports mountains are needed for stability.

 

[Link]

Dear god!

You claim that mountains prevent earthquakes.
I presented clear evidence that mountainous areas are the most earthquake prone.

You claim that if there were no mountains there would be more earthquakes.
I explained how if there were no mountains there would be no processes that cause earthquakes, therefore no earthquakes.

And yet you still keep repeating the same irrational nonsense.

You infer like a kid. Grow up.

 

[KWED]

This seem to be answer by a scientist if there would be no mountains on earth right now, what would be the state:

Ok, lets see what he says...

To have a world with no mountains occur naturally, there must be no plate tectonics.
A consequence of this is that there would be no earthquakes

Do you get it now?
Or are you just going to dismiss your own source and keep insisting that no mountains = more earthquakes?

 

[Link]

Ok, lets see what he says...

Do you get it now?
Or are you just going to dismiss your own source and keep insisting that no mountains = more earthquakes?

Read whole thing dude. You are so ignorant, you are beyond repair. It would mean in this case, no land, just water per the source.

So then if we are going to have land, we need mountains, or what will happen?

 

[Link]

Even cherry picking what the scientist says and decontextualizing that. You have no shame dude.

 

[sayak83]

If no mountains at all, would earth shake a lot more? IT's actually very simple. This is a fact it got right.

To me no scientific sign is a miracle, because Jinn know all these things.

No. Earth will certainly not shake a lot more without mountains. That is totally false. There are huge regions of the earth that does not have mountains (Inner Australia, large segments of Canada, interior of Russia) which are continental cores. They do not shake more. In fact mountains are associated with earthquakes as these form near crust boundaries. This is nonsense.

 

[KWED]

They don't prevent all earthquakes. But you don't know what you are talking about like I said:

OK. Which earthquakes do mountains prevent? The ones that would happen in regions that don't suffer from any volcanic and tectonic activity?

That's like the person nailing fish skins to the doors of his house. When asked why, he replied "To keep the elephants away". On being told "There aren't any elephants here" he said, wild eyed "See, it's working!!!"

Remember that the Quran states that mountains prevent the earth from shaking. It is wrong. Deal with it.

 

[Link]

No. Earth will certainly not shake a lot more without mountains. That is totally false. There are huge regions of the earth that does not have mountains (Inner Australia, large segments of Canada, interior of Russia) which are continental cores. They do not shake more. In fact mountains are associated with earthquakes as these form near crust boundaries. This is nonsense.

Is there some kind of mass ignorance of real science due to this scientific fact in Quran. Again, what's with this kindergarten inferences. Let me quote a scientist:
No Plate Tectonics
To have a world with no mountains occur naturally, there must be no plate tectonics. To have no plate tectonics, there must either be no moon, or the moon must be tidally locked to prevent its gravitic influence causing heat-producing deformation of the world.

A consequence of this is that there would be no earthquakes and erosion would eventually level land and sea-floor alike until it was eventually all an equal depth beneath the water (aside from small solar tides). There would be no geomagnetic field (that being caused by the same processes as plate tectonics), which would allow higher radiation levels at the surface.

The Mountains were taken away!
If earth's mountains were magically instantly removed, there would be immediate repercussions. All that stone has mass, and the crust beneath which had been pressed into the mantle would rebound, causing worldwide earthquakes. Volcanoes would erupt as their plugs of stone were removed or weakened.

All this is not considering the effects on the global weather patterns.

In the long term, mountains would reappear as plate tectonics continued to deform the landscape.

 

[KWED]

You infer like a kid. Grow up.

As we can see from the pitiful state of your responses, you have backed yourself into a dead end.
Sometimes you need to just accept your mistakes, listen to those better informed and with more experience, and move on. You'll be the better man for it, and others will think better of you as well.

 

[Link]

OK. Which earthquakes do mountains prevent? The ones that would happen in regions that don't suffer from any volcanic and tectonic activity?

That's like the person nailing fish skins to the doors of his house. When asked why, he replied "To keep the elephants away". On being told "There aren't any elephants here" he said, wild eyed "See, it's working!!!"

Remember that the Quran states that mountains prevent the earth from shaking. It is wrong. Deal with it.

You are making up your own science to do away with a real scientific fact.

 

[Link]

As we can see from the pitiful state of your responses, you have backed yourself into a dead end.
Sometimes you need to just accept your mistakes, listen to those better informed and with more experience, and move on. You'll be the better man for it, and others will think better of you as well.

Pot and kettle classic.

 

[Link]

My conclusion: "no scientific signs (although to me again not real proofs as Jinn know these things)" can be proven because people make up their own bro science rather then seek real science.

 

[KWED]

Read whole thing dude. You are so ignorant, you are beyond repair.

I summarised his conclusions. You made a specific claim (if there were no mountains there would be more earthquakes) which he addressed. He clearly stated the opposite. If there were no mountains there would be no earthquakes.
He later said that if the current mountains were removed it would lead to violent upheaval, but that is irrelevant to the issue at hand. In this scenario it would be the removal of the existing mountains that caused the problems, not there being no mountains in the first place.

It would mean in this case, no land, just water per the source.

So then if we are going to have land, we need mountains, or what will happen?

No idea what you are on about here.

 

[Link]

By the way, there is reasons we can come up with. And then there is Imam Ali (a) talking about what Quran means and he says:

Allah spread the earth on stormy and tumultuous waves and the depths of swollen seas, where waves clashed with each other and high surges leapt over one another. They emitted foam like the he-camel at the time of sexual excitement. So the tumult of the stormy water was subdued by the weight of the earth, when the earth pressed it with its chest its shooting agitation eased, and when the earth rolled on it with its shoulder bones the water meekly submitted.

Thus after the tumult of its surges it became tame and overpowered, and an obedient prisoner of the shackles of disgrace, while the earth spread itself and became solid in the stormy depth of this water. (In this way) the earth put an end to the pride, self conceit, high position and superiority of the water, and muzzled the intrepidity of its flow. Consequently it stopped after its stormy flow and settled down after its tumult.

كَبَسَ الاْرْضَ عَلى مَوْرِ أَمْوَاج مُسْتَفْحِلَة، وَلُجَجِ بِحَار زَاخِرَة، تَلْتَطِمُ أَوَاذِيُّ أمْواجِهَا، وَتَصْطَفِقُ مُتَقَاذِفَاتُ أَثْبَاجِها، وَتَرْغُو زَبَداً كَالْفُحُولِ عِنْدَ هِيَاجِهَا، فَخَضَعَ جِمَاحُ الْمَاءِ الْمُتَلاَطِمِ لِثِقَلِ حَمْلِهَا، وَسَكَنَ هَيْجُ ارْتِمَائِهِ إِذْ وَطِئَتْهُ بِكَلْكَلِهَا، وَذَلَّ مُسْتَخْذِياً إِذْ تَمعَّكَتْ عَلَيْهِ بِكَوَاهِلِهَا، فَأَصْبَحَ بَعْدَ اصْطِخَابِ أَمْوَاجِهِ، سَاجِياً مَقْهُوراً، وَفِي حَكَمَةِ الذُّلِّ مُنْقَاداً أَسِيراً، وَسَكَنَتِ الاْرْضُ مَدْحُوَّةً فِي لُجَّةِ تَيَّارِهِ، وَرَدَّتْ مِنْ نَخْوَةِ بَأْوِهِ وَاعْتِلاَئِهِ، وَشُمُوخِ أَنْفِهِ وَسُمُوِّ غُلَوَائِهِ، وَكَعَمَتْهُ عَلَى كِظَّةِ جَرْيَتِهِ، فَهَمَدَ بَعْدَ نَزَقَاتِهِ، وبَعْدَ زَيَفَانِ وَثَبَاتِهِ.

When the excitement of water subsided under the earth's sides and under the weight of the high and lofty mountains placed on its shoulders, Allah flowed springs of water from its high tops and distributed them through plains and low places and moderated their movement by fixed rocks and high mountain tops. Then its trembling came to a standstill because of the penetration of mountains in (various) parts of its surface and their being fixed in its deep areas, and their standing on its plains.

Then Allah created vastness between the earth and firmament, and provided blowing wind for its inhabitants. Then He directed its inhabitants to spread all over its convenient places. Thereafter He did not leave alone the barren tracts of the earth where high portions lacked in water-springs and where rivers could not find their way, but created floating clouds which enliven the unproductive areas and grow vegetation.

فَلَمَّا سَكَنَ هَيْجُ الْمَاءِ مِنْ تَحْتِ أَكْنَافِهَا، وَحَمْلِ شَوَاهِقِ الْجِبَالِ الْبُذَّخِ عَلَى أَكْتَافِهَا، فَجَّرَ يَنَابِيعَ الْعُيُونِ مِنْ عَرَانِينِ أُنُوفِهَا، وَفَرَّقَهَا فِي سُهُوبِ بِيدِهَا وَأَخَادِيدِهَا، وَعَدَّلَ حَرَكَاتِهَا بِالرَّاسَيَاتِ مِنْ جَلاَمِيدِهَا، وَذَوَاتِ الشَّنَاخِيبِ الشُّمِّ مِنْ صَيَاخِيدِهَا، فَسَكَنَتْ مِنَ الْمَيَدَانِ بِرُسُوبِ الْجِبَالِ فِي قِطَعِ أَدِيمِهَا، وَتَغَلْغُلِهَا مُتَسَرِّبَةً في جَوْبَاتِ خَيَاشِيمِهَا، وَرُكُوبِهَا أَعْنَاقَ سُهُولِ الاُرَضِينَ وَجَرَاثِيمِهَا، وَفَسَحَ بَيْنَ الْجَوِّ وَبَيْنَهَا، وَأَعَدَّ الْهَوَاءَ مُتَنَسَّماً لِسَاكِنِهَا، وَأَخْرَجَ إِلَيْهَا أَهْلَهَا عَلَى تَمَامِ مَرَافِقِها. ثُمَّ لَمْ يَدَعْ جُرُزَ الاْرْضِ الَّتي تَقْصُرُ مِيَاهُ الْعُيُونِ عَنْ رَوَابِيهَا، وَلاَ تَجِدُ جَدَاوِلُ الاْنْهَارِ ذَرِيعَةً إِلى بُلُوغِهَا، حَتَّى أَنْشَأَ لَهَا نَاشِئَةَ سَحَاب تُحْيِي مَوَاتَهَا، وَتَسْتَخْرِجُ نَبَاتَهَا،

He made a big cloud by collecting together small clouds and when water collected in it and lightning began to flash on its sides and the flash continued under the white clouds as well as the heavy ones.He sent it raining heavily. The cloud was hanging towards the earth and southerly winds were squeezing it into shedding its water like a she-camel bending down for milking.

When the cloud prostrated itself on the ground and delivered all the water it carried on itself Allah grew vegetation on the plain earth and herbage on dry mountains. As a result, the earth felt pleased at being decorated with its gardens and wondered at her dress of soft vegetation and the ornaments of its blossoms. Allah made all this the means of sustenance for the people and feed for the beasts. He has opened up highways in its expanse and has established minarets (of guidance) for those who tread on its highways.

أَلَّفَ غَمَامَهَا بَعْدَ افْتِرَاقِ لُمَعِهَ، وَتَبَايُنِ قَزَعِهِ. حَتَّى إِذَا تَمَخَّضَتْ لُجَّةُ الْمُزْنِ فِيهِ، وَالْـتَمَعَ بَرْقُهُ فَي كُفَفِهِ، وَلَمْ يَنَمْ وَمِيضُهُ فِي كَنَهْوَرِ رَبَابِهِ، وَمُتَرَاكِمِ سَحَابِهِ، أَرْسَلَهُ سَحّاً مُتَدَارَكاً، قَدْ أَسَفَّ هَيْدَبُهُ، تَمْرِيهِ الْجَنُوبُ دِرَرَ أَهَاضِيبِه، وَدُفَعَ شَآبِيبِهِ.

فَلَمَّا أَلْقَتِ السَّحابُ بَرْكَ بِوَانَيْهَا،وَبَعَاعَ مَا اسْتَقَلَّتْ بِهِ مِنَ الْعِبْءِ الْـمَحْمُولِ عَلَيْهَا، أَخْرَجَ بِهِ مِنْ هَوَامِدِ الاْرْضِ النَّبَاتَ، وَمِنْ زُعْرِالْجِبَالِ الاْعْشابَ،فَهِيَ تَبْهَجُ بِزِينَةِ رِيَاضِهَا،وَتَزْدَهِي بِمَا أُلْبِسَتْهُ مِنْ رَيْطِ، أَزَاهِيرِهَا، وَحِلْيَةِ مَا سُمِطَتْ بِهِ مِنْ نَاضِرِ أَنْوَارِهَا، وَجَعَلَ ذلِكَ بَلاَغاً لِلاْنَامِ، وَرِزْقاً لِلاْنْعَامِ، وَخَرَقَ الْفِجَاجَ فِي آفَاقِهَا، وَأَقَامَ المَنَارَ لَلسَّالِكِينَ عَلَى جَوَادِّ طُرُقِهَا.



The bold is a proven scientific fact.

And this is what Quran means, not that, there is less earthquakes near mountains or that none occur due to them.

 

[KWED]

Is there some kind of mass ignorance of real science due to this scientific fact in Quran. Again, what's with this kindergarten inferences. Let me quote a scientist:
No Plate Tectonics
To have a world with no mountains occur naturally, there must be no plate tectonics. To have no plate tectonics, there must either be no moon, or the moon must be tidally locked to prevent its gravitic influence causing heat-producing deformation of the world.

A consequence of this is that there would be no earthquakes and erosion would eventually level land and sea-floor alike until it was eventually all an equal depth beneath the water (aside from small solar tides). There would be no geomagnetic field (that being caused by the same processes as plate tectonics), which would allow higher radiation levels at the surface.

Clear as day. No mountains = no earthquakes.
You really don't understand what you are posting, do you?

 

[Link]

I summaries his conclusions. You made a specific claim (if there were no mountains there would be more earthquakes) which he addressed. He clearly stated the opposite. If there were no mountains there would be no earthquakes.
He later said that if the current mountains were removed it would lead to violent upheaval, but that is irrelevant to the issue at hand. In this scenario it would be the removal of the existing mountains that caused the problems, not there being no mountains in the first place.

No idea what you are on about here.

Read what I posted. It's not long. Stop talking just read for once and reflect:

No Plate Tectonics
To have a world with no mountains occur naturally, there must be no plate tectonics. To have no plate tectonics, there must either be no moon, or the moon must be tidally locked to prevent its gravitic influence causing heat-producing deformation of the world.

A consequence of this is that there would be no earthquakes and erosion would eventually level land and sea-floor alike until it was eventually all an equal depth beneath the water (aside from small solar tides). There would be no geomagnetic field (that being caused by the same processes as plate tectonics), which would allow higher radiation levels at the surface.

The Mountains were taken away!
If earth's mountains were magically instantly removed, there would be immediate repercussions. All that stone has mass, and the crust beneath which had been pressed into the mantle would rebound, causing worldwide earthquakes. Volcanoes would erupt as their plugs of stone were removed or weakened.

All this is not considering the effects on the global weather patterns.

In the long term, mountains would reappear as plate tectonics continued to deform the landscape.