Racism, Anti-Semitism, and Double Standards

[Epic Beard Man]

Kanye West is under fire regarding a comment he made that the Anti-Defamation League argued that his comment was anti-semitic see the following:

"Man, let me tell you about George Bush and oil money and Obama and no money. People want to say that Obama can't makes these moves or he's not executing. That's because he ain't got no connections. Black people don't have the same level of connections as Jewsish people. Black people don't have the same connections as oil people."

-Kanye West on Power 105 radio

Now, regardless where your political stance is regarding the POTUS, I think Kanye has a point regarding the black community lacking international networking which can uplift their community. I also find the irony that Kanye's comments were made as anti-semitic which is the card the Anti-Defamation League is playing yet, if African-Americans cry foul regarding racism, people criticize saying "get over it, we have a black president."

I do agree with Kanye, regarding the international influence the Jewish community has, and the ability of Israel to influence at least partially, global politics. But I can't get over the double standards within American society. Recently, the country targeted this "Knockout Game" in New York where several Jewish victims were subjects to this juvenile act, and it was quickly labeled, anti-semitic. Reports later determined that the game didn't specifically targeted Jews, but helpless random people. The game was seen exclusively a "black thing" yet, several white kids were arrested for participating in this game.

I firmly believe if your going to complain that one community crys foul too much, you should also be critical of other communities that do the same thing.

 

[Sunstone]

West's comments do not strike me as particularly anti-Semitic.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I don't think it was anti-semitic. If anything, Jewish people should take that as a compliment. The Jewish people are major players on the world stage and that's not a bad thing. The ADL are known for being far too sensitive over everything. I mostly ignore them since they don't tend to think very rationally.

 

[nilsz]

I don't think it was anti-semitic. If anything, Jewish people should take that as a compliment. The Jewish people are major players on the world stage and that's not a bad thing. The ADL are known for being far too sensitive over everything. I mostly ignore them since they don't tend to think very rationally.

Anti-semitism tend to demonise jews as sources of corrupting influence, so such a "compliment" might be interpreted as something like "you are pretty skilled at cooking babies."

I am not asserting that the comment is anti-semitic, although it isn't immediately apparent why jews are relevant to the conversation, and would think that Obama, as a president, would have more connections than most jewish individuals regardless of his ethnicity. It may be more true for the black minority in general, although I would be wary of saying that jewish people tend to have any more connections than gentile white people.

 

[Thana]

I don't know, Positive racism is still racism.
Like saying black people are good at sports.
It's a stereotype, And it demeans the race by putting expectations on it that not all of said race can achieve.

Anyway,
Kanye is just, Well there are no words.
Except maybe ridiculous.

 

[Kalidas]

I gotta side with Thana with this one. "positive" stereotypes can be just as bad. Black people who are successful, education focused, and "well mannered" (not my words the words of people I have heard)are seen as "oreos" or :white washed" which lowers their cultural background, and yet they are just as black as any black man. I am white and yet have been VERY poor since birth. I have even been homeless on a number of occasions. Yet because everyone assumes all white people "get it easy". Heaven forbid I try and explain I am poor to certain prejudiced people.I get "Oh you must be "white poor" " what ever the **** that means. When I say poor I mean eating ramen breakfast lunch and dinner for 2 months straight.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I don't know, Positive racism is still racism.
Like saying black people are good at sports.
It's a stereotype, And it demeans the race by putting expectations on it that not all of said race can achieve.

Anyway,
Kanye is just, Well there are no words.
Except maybe ridiculous.

Two things you've said: Postive racism and stereotypes. Then you make the two interchangeable (racism and stereotypes) which is not only confusing, but a contradiction. Racism is racism. There is no such thing as positive racism as there is no such thing as reverse racism (reverse racism identifies an initial antagonist--therefore, if you're a victim of racism, you're a victim there is no reversal). What Kanye said was absolutely true. The African-American community is heavily fragmented with limited networking. Compared to the religious Jewish community where the whole community supports one another, shares network and business, its hard to argue against that. What Kanye said was not a stereotype but an observation, one that I share. If Kanye said Jews are money hungry then yes I would see your point.

I gotta side with Thana with this one. "positive" stereotypes can be just as bad. Black people who are successful, education focused, and "well mannered" (not my words the words of people I have heard)are seen as "oreos" or :white washed" which lowers their cultural background, and yet they are just as black as any black man. I am white and yet have been VERY poor since birth. I have even been homeless on a number of occasions. Yet because everyone assumes all white people "get it easy". Heaven forbid I try and explain I am poor to certain prejudiced people.I get "Oh you must be "white poor" " what ever the **** that means. When I say poor I mean eating ramen breakfast lunch and dinner for 2 months straight.

I think more often than not, the easiness people refer to is your white privilege. Youcan still have white privilege and be poor.

 

[Sunstone]

West's comment does not strike me as crucially similar to the positive racism of "Blacks are only good for sports and entertainment." I took his comment to be more along the lines of "Blacks are disproportionately over-represented in some professional sports and some genres of entertainment." The second statement is merely a claim about the facts, and not the same as claiming Blacks are only good for sports and entertainment.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Jews = oil people = the rich, insidious, power behind the world's politics and wealth ...

What could possibly be wrong with such an insinuation?

 

[Kalidas]

Jews = oil people = the rich, insidious, power behind the world's politics and wealth ...

What could possibly be wrong with such an insinuation?

Exactly

 

[Sunstone]

Jews = oil people = the rich, insidious, power behind the world's politics and wealth ...

What could possibly be wrong with such an insinuation?

Was he really going that far? I honestly didn't interpret him that way. But if his statement amounts to what you say it does, then it's vile and anti-Semitic for sure.

 

[Kalidas]

I think more often than not, the easiness people refer to is your white privilege. Youcan still have white privilege and be poor.

I know fora fact I am privileged for "being white". I also know I work my *** off to get where I am where I am going, and hate when people say "oh its because you were born white". Yet have no idea where I come from, what I have done, seen,or been through.

FYI stereotypes are a type of racism. Your correct there is no "positive racism" there ARE "positive" stereotypes. Stereotypes are STILL racism though, its making a blanket generalization based on nothing more than race.

 

[Kalidas]

Was he really going that far? I honestly didn't interpret him that way. But if his statement amounts to what you say it does, then it's vile and anti-Semitic for sure.

I think it depends a lot more on context and who was saying it.
West is not known for making good well thought out comments. I am going to air on the side of him being himself again.

 

[nilsz]

Was he really going that far? I honestly didn't interpret him that way. But if his statement amounts to what you say it does, then it's vile and anti-Semitic for sure.

Recognizing such things as sexism, racism, anti-semitism for what it is requires you to be attentive not only to the form of an expression, but more importantly to its content and implications.

 

[Sunstone]

Recognizing such things as sexism, racism, anti-semitism for what it is requires you to be attentive not only to the form of an expression, but more importantly to its content and implications.

I'm aware of that, but what is the larger context here? I don't know a thing about West apart from I've heard the name before, and what's in the OP. So help me out here.

 

[Sunstone]

I think it depends a lot more on context and who was saying it.
West is not known for making good well thought out comments. I am going to air on the side of him being himself again.

What's West done before? I really only know his name and what's in the OP.

 

[Penumbra]

West's comment does not strike me as crucially similar to the positive racism of "Blacks are only good for sports and entertainment." I took his comment to be more along the lines of "Blacks are disproportionately over-represented in some professional sports and some genres of entertainment." The second statement is merely a claim about the facts, and not the same as claiming Blacks are only good for sports and entertainment.

^This, imo.

The quote in the OP doesn't seem anti-Semitic to me. He's saying that as a demographic, black people just don't have the same connections as Jewish people, or as oil people, which is accurate. I didn't get the sense that he equated Jewish people with oil people, but instead just chose two well-connected examples to contrast what he's describing about black people. I don't think he meant anything negative about Jews, but was just contrasting a difference of influence and connection.

But it's Kanye, so who knows. That guy...

It's a fact that Jewish people are proportionally extremely well-connected in the US. The average net worth of Jewish people has been surveyed as being over three times the national average, and incomes are statistically higher as well. Jews are less than 2% of the U.S. population but make up 20% of the residents of Manhattan, make up 10-20% of Congress at any given time, and make up significant percentages of the media industry, financial corporations, and at elite universities. Basically, in areas of power, Jews statistically are 5x-10x more represented than would be expected as their percentage of the population, meaning that in a given area of power, 10-20% of the people are Jews, compared to <2% of the population being Jewish. It's not racist or anti-Semitic to state facts about a certain demographic, that Jews statistically are very successful as a demographic, and have a lot of influence.

Usually though, when anti-Semitic people reference Jewish over-representation in areas of power, they describe it in a negative way, or bring up conspiracy theories, or use phrases like "the Jews...", etc. Kanye seems to have been speaking more matter-of-factually.

 

[Penumbra]

What's West done before? I really only know his name and what's in the OP.

He generally does crazy things. I don't think his quote itself was anti-Semitic but with Kanye it's often that the worst intention was what he meant.

One example was, Taylor Swift was receiving an award for best female artist, and he was drunk and went up and snatched it in front of the audience and said Beyonce should have won instead, basically. Extremely awkward and embarrassing for all involved.

Top 10 Kanye Moments

 

[Sunstone]

He generally does crazy things. I don't think his quote itself was anti-Semitic but with Kanye it's often that the worst intention was what he meant.

One example was, Taylor Swift was receiving an award for best female artist, and he was drunk and went up and snatched it in front of the audience and said Beyonce should have won instead, basically. Extremely awkward and embarrassing for all involved.

Top 10 Kanye Moments

Jeebers! The man seems a wee little bit disposed to narcissism, among other things.

 

[Poeticus]

One example was, Taylor Swift was receiving an award for best female artist, and he was drunk and went up and snatched it in front of the audience and said Beyonce should have won instead, basically.

The thing is......Beyonce should have won though....