Racism, Anti-Semitism, and Double Standards

[Revoltingest]

Word censorship on an Internet forum is full of irony, in my opinion. While the "s" word (****) gets censored, the words above are not (especially word 2 and three after the e.g.). Totally ironic. But also just plain sad.

It's complicated.
A good rule of thumb: It's wrong if the intent is to abuse.
So I might call my friends "rednecks" in the spirit of camraderie,
but I wouldn't call them that in anger.

 

[Caladan]

It's our fault.
We broadcast awful stereotypical things about many people.

Let me put it this way, my main associations with the term 'redneck' relate to a couple of things: someone who is usually white (as this is how its used in American jargon), and has a worldview which is based on antagonizing other groups of people (such as blacks, Jews, native Americans and Hispanics). The term does not have to be associated with being poor from what I gathered so far. For example powerful but ignorant and racist people are also easily categorized in this group. I assumed the term is primarily aimed to discuss a state of mind of people, and I suppose by proxy their cultural environment. In this sense my family is white and was poor at some point, but never redneck.

This is what I get from Wiki:

Redneck is a derogatory slang term used in reference to poor, uneducated white farmers, especially from the Southern United States.[1][2] It is similar in meaning to cracker (especially regarding Georgia and Florida), hillbilly (especially regarding Appalachia and the Ozarks),[3] and white trash (but without the last term's suggestions of immorality).[4][5][6]
By the 2000s, the term had expanded in meaning to refer to bigoted, loutish reactionaries who are opposed to modern ways,[7] and has often been used to attack white Southern conservatives. The term is used broadly to degrade working class and rural whites that are perceived by urban progressives to be insufficiently liberal.[8] At the same time, some Southern whites have reclaimed the word, using it with pride and defiance as a self-identifier

 

[Revoltingest]

Let me put it this way, my main associations with the term 'redneck' relate to a couple of things: someone who is usually white (as this is how its used in American jargon), and has a worldview which is based on antagonizing other groups of people (such as blacks, Jews, native Americans and Hispanics). The term does not have to be associated with being poor from what I gathered so far.

The problem in using it disparagingly, is that in the minds of many it includes many other people than those you intend. So it isn't offensive cuz of how you use it, it's offensive cuz of how many people perceive it. It's similar to the "Redskins" name for a sports team, or the display of a Confederate flag to show southern pride & independence.

 

[Reverend Rick]

Geeze, I can think of several blacks that have had great influence as Secretary of State in recent years. Racist Republicans appointed them too.

White men can't jump and until Tiger came on the scene I did not see many black pro golfers.

Still waiting for a great black swimmer to arrive.

I think this may be stereotyping, but I am not sure it is racist remarks.

This kind of talk is taboo, but has a bit of truth to it as well.

It is when you start thinking something about an entire race that it gets out of hand.

If you ignore the NBA is mostly black you have to be blind but that don't mean every black person can dunk and no white man ever will.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Let me put it this way, my main associations with the term 'redneck' relate to a couple of things: someone who is usually white (as this is how its used in American jargon), and has a worldview which is based on antagonizing other groups of people (such as blacks, Jews, native Americans and Hispanics).

A 'redneck' is someone who works outdoors (in the hot, Southern, sun) - typically an unskilled (and, by implication, uneducated or under-educated farmer or laborer). It is a stereotype that is rarely intended as a compliment.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Black people don't have the same level of connections as Jewsish people. Black people don't have the same connections as oil people."

Jews = oil people = the rich, insidious, power behind the world's politics and wealth ...

What could possibly be wrong with such an insinuation?

Was he really going that far? I honestly didn't interpret him that way. But if his statement amounts to what you say it does, then it's vile and anti-Semitic for sure.

He should certainly be given the opportunity to explain himself.

 

[Levite]

I actually tend to agree with Caladan that if Kanye actually was smart enough to know what he was talking about, what he said probably would've been at least obliquely anti-Semitic. Since as far as I can tell, Kanye has his head too far up his own a** to see much of the world around him, the remark probably was not intentionally anti-Semitic.

 

[Caladan]

A 'redneck' is someone who works outdoors (in the hot, Southern, sun) - typically an unskilled (and, by implication, uneducated or under-educated farmer or laborer). It is a stereotype that is rarely intended as a compliment.

I didn't intend to use it anywhere as a complimentary title. Some people in my country get to be called 'rednecks' by me as well. Some of them share the same genetic pool with me.
So, nowhere there was an intention to generalize a race of people behind my use of the term. Which is what we furthered went on discussing, as other members brought new and more elaborate perspectives about the term.

Non Americans aim to refer to certain elementary things with the term 'redneck'. It's intended to capture the combination of ignorance and racism among certain white Christian communities (however, no one said these phenomenon are limited to white or Christian folk). This is at least from my understanding.
At any rate, I specifically used the term 'redneck' to capture the ignorance and double standards of Kanye West. So in other words I could have easily called Kanye a redneck, which was what I attempted to do, tongue in cheek and all.

 

[Father Heathen]

He was just saying what everyone was thinking

Not everyone. Some people have taste.

 

[Father Heathen]

Kanye is nothing but a shallow, talentless, ignorant, narcissistic hack (as is typical of mainstream rap artists). His comments imply that all blacks, regardless of class, education, status, position, etc. are somehow held back or held down. They oppress themselves by clinging to this mentality and mindset. And that all Jews are part of some sort of collaborative network of wealth, power, and influence. There is also the peculiarity of implying that being white and having wealth, power and influence makes one Jewish.

 

[Caladan]

Kanye is nothing but a shallow, talentless, ignorant, narcissistic hack (as is typical of mainstream rap artists). His comments imply that all blacks, regardless of class, education, status, position, etc. are somehow held back or held down. They oppress themselves by clinging to this mentality and mindset. And that all Jews are part of some sort of collaborative network of wealth, power, and influence. There is also the peculiarity of implying that being white and having wealth, power and influence makes one Jewish.

Man, I think you've analyzed it far better than the angles I tried to discuss. Especially the bold part.
Exactly. If supposedly being Jewish means being powerful and manipulating that power to promote your progeny. It also means that supposedly being black means being weak and disloyal. Also here's another stereotype for you, its typical for a rapper like West to relate power with shiny cars. After all, how do plenty of rappers get their bling bling, cars, and pools (their status of power)? But if not through writing misogynistic texts that glorify a woman's buttocks.
If this is an honorable path to power, we should be lucky that supposedly Jews are the powerful cabal. At least they show initiative to gain their wealth doing adult 'stuff'. You know, economy and politics.
Of course in reality, America has matured enough to see black American men and women rise to prominent positions based on their skills. And once this pattern started, we will see more prominent Americans who are black and did not get their fame from boxing, sport, or rap. Or in other words, from entertaining people.

 

[Father Heathen]

Man, I think you've analyzed it far better than the angles I tried to discuss. Especially the bold part.
Exactly. If supposedly being Jewish means being powerful and manipulating that power to promote your progeny. It also means that supposedly being black means being weak and disloyal. Also here's another stereotype for you, its typical for a rapper like West to relate power with shiny cars. After all, how do plenty of rappers get their bling bling, cars, and pools (their status of power)? But if not through writing misogynistic texts that glorify a woman's buttocks.
If this is an honorable path to power, we should be lucky that supposedly Jews are the powerful cabal. At least they show initiative to gain their wealth doing adult 'stuff'. You know, economy and politics.
Of course in reality, America has matured enough to see black American men and women rise to prominent positions based on their skills. And once this pattern started, we will see more prominent Americans who are black and did not get their fame from boxing, sport, or rap. Or in other words, from entertaining people.

And not to digress - although it's still a little relevant - rap is renown for glorifying misogyny and materialism, yet a few months ago some popstar (from New Zealand, I think) released a song that was critical of materialism, and contained a few lyrics that targeted rap culture in regards to this (gold teeth, chrome rims, gaudy and over-priced designer clothes, etc.). She was, of course, accused of racism due to this. Because, you know, all black people are rappers and all rappers are black people. The irony is suggesting that the culture embodied by rap somehow represents an entire race is what's truly racist.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Not everyone. Some people have taste.

I don't like beyonce's music, but her video was was a big hit compared to Taylor swifts video. That video had a huge following with people uploading remakes on YouTube, she should have won.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

West's comment does not strike me as crucially similar to the positive racism of "Blacks are only good for sports and entertainment." I took his comment to be more along the lines of "Blacks are disproportionately over-represented in some professional sports and some genres of entertainment." The second statement is merely a claim about the facts, and not the same as claiming Blacks are only good for sports and entertainment.

Where are you guys getting this "positive racism?" Do you mean positive stereotypes?

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Jews = oil people = the rich, insidious, power behind the world's politics and wealth ...

What could possibly be wrong with such an insinuation?

Um Kanye mentioned Bush and oil money, Bush has a personal stake in oil. Last time I checked, Bush wasn't Jewish.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Was he really going that far? I honestly didn't interpret him that way. But if his statement amounts to what you say it does, then it's vile and anti-Semitic for sure.

Kanye wasn't.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I know fora fact I am privileged for "being white". I also know I work my *** off to get where I am where I am going, and hate when people say "oh its because you were born white". Yet have no idea where I come from, what I have done, seen,or been through.

FYI stereotypes are a type of racism. Your correct there is no "positive racism" there ARE "positive" stereotypes. Stereotypes are STILL racism though, its making a blanket generalization based on nothing more than race.

No. stereotypes are a generalized classification based off of true/false positive and negative claims. Racism supercedes that.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

According to the sources I read he said more than what the OP quotes including:

"Man, let me tell you something about George Bush and oil money and Obama and no money. People want to say Obama can't make these moves or he's not executing. That's because he ain't got those connections. Black people don't have the same level of connections as Jewish people. Black people don't have the same connection as oil people.

"You know we don't know nobody that got a nice house. You know we don’t know nobody with paper like that we can go to when we down. You know they can just put us back or put us in a corporation. You know we ain’t in situation. Can you guarantee that your daughter can get a job at this radio station? But if you own this radio station, you could guarantee that. That’s what I’m talking about."

So yes, I think he is too ignorant to know what is or to express true anti-Semitism in its darkest aspects, but he is a general ******* in the sense of the kind of racism rednecks have about 'his people'.

Um, this still isn't ant-semitic. Kanye alludes to a lot of impoverished blacks with little connection, and lack of resources. The fact that Kanye mentioned the word Jews and subsequent remarks is what the ADL has an issue with.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

It's all in the spirit of the discussion. Ironically most members here don't find West's comments racist, likewise calling someone a redneck is a matter of perspective. I comment on their mentality, not on their race. If you are a redneck, deal with it

I've heard this logic before ""If I use the N-word, I'm talking about a state of mind." That is a backwards line of reasoning.

 

[Caladan]

Um, this still isn't ant-semitic. Kanye alludes to a lot of impoverished blacks with little connection, and lack of resources. The fact that Kanye mentioned the word Jews and subsequent remarks is what the ADL has an issue with.

Surly I'd like to think you joined this forum in order to read an entire post before you quote it out of context. Do read the last paragraph of my post, and you shall find your answer.
BTW since you do insist to persist, then I see no foul play by the ADL. If people claimed that all Black Americans are criminals it would be wrong as well, just as it is wrong to claim that Jews are manipulative and corrupt.
If West thinks he can say anything about another group of people, lets see how man he is when they address his stereotypes.