Racism, Anti-Semitism, and Double Standards

[Epic Beard Man]

And not to digress - although it's still a little relevant - rap is renown for glorifying misogyny and materialism, yet a few months ago some popstar (from New Zealand, I think) released a song that was critical of materialism, and contained a few lyrics that targeted rap culture in regards to this (gold teeth, chrome rims, gaudy and over-priced designer clothes, etc.). She was, of course, accused of racism due to this. Because, you know, all black people are rappers and all rappers are black people. The irony is suggesting that the culture embodied by rap somehow represents an entire race is what's truly racist.

And heavy metal and death metal is known to glorify racism and suicide, your point?

Obviously you don't listen to rap judging by your premature assumption. There are different sub-genres of rap. Most rap YOU'RE referring to, which if I may add most white youths today listen to is Southern rap. People like lil wayne, bird man are still popular. You don't like mainstream rap, fine but don't make unfounded generalisations based off mainstream artists.

 

[Caladan]

I've heard this logic before ""If I use the N-word, I'm talking about a state of mind." That is a backwards line of reasoning.

Glade I am not living in your social environment. Apparently you have more intimate experience which such matters.
BTW, it would help you to read the last couple of pages worth of posts before replying to each and every post on these pages... as much of it has already been covered. It would be more comfortable for all of us if you get the gist of it instead of repeating every argument which was made there.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Surly I'd like to think you joined this forum in order to read an entire post before you quote it out of context. Do read the last paragraph of my post, and you shall find your answer.
BTW since you do insist to persist, then I see no foul play by the ADL. If people claimed that all Black Americans are criminals it would be wrong as well, just as it is wrong to claim that Jews are manipulative and corrupt.
If West thinks he can say anything about another group of people, lets see how man he is when they address his stereotypes.

And surely I read your entire post. But surely you didn't prove what he said was anti-semitic.

 

[Caladan]

And surely I read your entire post. But surely you didn't prove what he said was anti-semitic.

Then surly you did not.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Glade I am not living in your social environment. Apparently you have more intimate experience which such matters.
BTW, it would help you to read the last couple of pages worth of posts before replying to each and every post on these pages... as much of it has already been covered. It would be more comfortable for all of us if you get the gist of it instead of repeating every argument which was made there.

The feeling is likewise. If I'm quoting specific members its because of their responses thank you for your suggestion.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Then surly you did not.

Because I don't agree? Yeah ok

 

[Father Heathen]

I don't like beyonce's music, but her video was was a big hit compared to Taylor swifts video. That video had a huge following with people uploading remakes on YouTube, she should have won.

Oh, I don't doubt her stuff is popular, but I don't think that lemming trends determine what's quality art.

Yeah, I loathe pop music; it's cheap, shallow, chintzy schlock, manufactured by the industry like a product and marketed to the lowest common denominator rather than a genuine artistic endeavor with depth and substance.

 

[Caladan]

Because I don't agree? Yeah ok

No, because I never claimed West was anti-Semitic, or that what he said was classical 'bonafide' anti-Semitic. In fact, I claimed he was commonly ignorant, rather than anti-Semitic.
Here are my exact words actually:

I think he is too ignorant to know what is or to express true anti-Semitism in its darkest aspects, but he is a general ******* in the sense of the kind of racism rednecks have about 'his people'

Kayne West gives the impression of the kind of man who is not knowledgeable about history or world (nor American) culture in order to appreciate what it true anti-Semitism, instead he has the kind of shallow cultural ignorance that many other people display, and which often stereotypes other groups of people which are more successful than they are, or have values or interests which are different.
I'm hardly impressed nor excited by his so called anti-Semitic remarks. He is no Eichmann, nor is he Goebbels.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

Oh, I don't doubt her stuff is popular, but I don't think the lowest common denominator determines what's quality art.

Yeah, I loathe pop music; it's cheap, shallow, chintzy schlock, manufactured by the industry like a product and marketed to the lowest common denominator rather than an artistic endeavor with depth and substance.

Oookkk but compared to Taylor swift she should of won based on the fact her video was more popular, that's all.

 

[Father Heathen]

Um Kanye mentioned Bush and oil money, Bush has a personal stake in oil. Last time I checked, Bush wasn't Jewish.

Of course he isn't, but Kanye implied that he was.

 

[Father Heathen]

Oookkk but compared to Taylor swift she should of won based on the fact her video was more popular, that's all.

And based on contemporary popularity, Bieber should be exalted above Beethoven.

 

[Father Heathen]

Kanye alludes to a lot of impoverished blacks with little connection, and lack of resources.

And he nonsensically groups Barrack Obama within this bracket.

 

[Father Heathen]

And heavy metal and death metal is known to glorify racism and suicide, your point?

Sure, such songs may exist, but are they really pervasive themes throughout the whole genre?

Obviously you don't listen to rap judging by your premature assumption. There are different sub-genres of rap. Most rap YOU'RE referring to, which if I may add most white youths today listen to is Southern rap. People like lil wayne, bird man are still popular. You don't like mainstream rap, fine but don't make unfounded generalisations based off mainstream artists.

Hence why I said mainstream. I'm aware that there is rap music which ventures from the well worn path of raping about going to the club, getting drunk, getting booty, gaining wealth and fame, being the best rapper, etc. but I'm talking about the typical garbage that gets radio play, which indeed is awash with misogyny and materialism.

 

[Wherenextcolumbus]

And based on contemporary popularity, Bieber should be exalted above Beethoven.

We are talking about the VMAs here and we are comparing beyonce to Taylor swift....beyonce's video was more globally popular, so yes she should of won best female video at the VMAs.

 

[Father Heathen]

We are talking about the VMAs here and we are comparing beyonce to Taylor swift....beyonce's video was more globally popular, so yes she should of won best female video at the VMAs.

Granted, my opinion of Taylor Swift isn't that much higher than that of Beyonce, so disregard my analogies.

I hate the VMA's, too, btw.

 

[ChristineES]

The most judgmental people are the ones who hate to be judged the most. Just an observation.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Sure, such songs may exist, but are they really pervasive themes throughout the whole genre?



Hence why I said mainstream. I'm aware that there is rap music which ventures from the well worn path of raping about going to the club, getting drunk, getting booty, gaining wealth and fame, being the best rapper, etc. but I'm talking about the typical garbage that gets radio play, which indeed is awash with misogyny and materialism.

Ok. My apologies if I missed that point in your post.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

No, because I never claimed West was anti-Semitic, or that what he said was classical 'bonafide' anti-Semitic. In fact, I claimed he was commonly ignorant, rather than anti-Semitic.
Here are my exact words actually:

Kayne West gives the impression of the kind of man who is not knowledgeable about history or world (nor American) culture in order to appreciate what it true anti-Semitism, instead he has the kind of shallow cultural ignorance that many other people display, and which often stereotypes other groups of people which are more successful than they are, or have values or interests which are different.
I'm hardly impressed nor excited by his so called anti-Semitic remarks. He is no Eichmann, nor is he Goebbels.

Ok Caladan. I may have jumped the gun. My apologies. I do in fact agree with you.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

Of course he isn't, but Kanye implied that he was.

I should have included as a multiquote so I apologize. I'm getting used to this internet forum thing...But yeah perhaps that is your perception but if in fact Kanye did imply that somehow Bush is, then yes I agree that is very idiotic of him to do so in that manner. In fact, I think Kanye could have said this entirely different without the mentioning of Jews.

 

[Clarity]

Kanye West is under fire regarding a comment he made that the Anti-Defamation League argued that his comment was anti-semitic see the following:

"Man, let me tell you about George Bush and oil money and Obama and no money. People want to say that Obama can't makes these moves or he's not executing. That's because he ain't got no connections. Black people don't have the same level of connections as Jewsish people. Black people don't have the same connections as oil people."

-Kanye West on Power 105 radio

Now, regardless where your political stance is regarding the POTUS, I think Kanye has a point regarding the black community lacking international networking which can uplift their community. I also find the irony that Kanye's comments were made as anti-semitic which is the card the Anti-Defamation League is playing yet, if African-Americans cry foul regarding racism, people criticize saying "get over it, we have a black president."

I do agree with Kanye, regarding the international influence the Jewish community has, and the ability of Israel to influence at least partially, global politics. But I can't get over the double standards within American society. Recently, the country targeted this "Knockout Game" in New York where several Jewish victims were subjects to this juvenile act, and it was quickly labeled, anti-semitic. Reports later determined that the game didn't specifically targeted Jews, but helpless random people. The game was seen exclusively a "black thing" yet, several white kids were arrested for participating in this game.

I firmly believe if your going to complain that one community crys foul too much, you should also be critical of other communities that do the same thing.

Your view is naive.

Black people have far more political firepower than any other ethnicity in America.

Last time I checked, the Congressional Black Caucus had only to whine and Obama would open the cash box. (And Kanye's comments are very common among black speakers who are very often visceral anti-Semites.)