Racism, prejudice and bigotry

[gnomon]

Well now I've completely lost track of the thread.

I'm going to agree with Jay that casting a negative stereotype is wrong. I base it on these reasons:
1) First, it might not be true
2) Even if true the stereotype may be based on social factors that have nothing to do with inheritable characteristic which leads to
3) The same stereotype may just as well be leveled against other groups rendering the singling out against the first group moot.

It still may be that an observation, even negative, might be true but it doesn't necessarily mean the person making the observation understands why it is so. More on that later.

As well, characteristics can be divided into biological characteristics which actually have little to do with ethnicity and social characteristics which have little to do with biology excepting the perceived notion that people of certain physical characteristics share the same culture. An incorrect perception.

Even positive stereotyping or pointing out general characteristics of a particular group can be considered prejudging someone or even lead to prejudice. I believe that blacks in America face prejudice because of the fact that blacks have been arrested for more crimes (certain crimes) leads to law enforcement adopting a different attitudes towards that group. There is nothing inherent about being black that would cause one to commit more crimes but the fact that law enforcement has been enforced more in predominantly black neighborhoods and the fact that one of the most common crimes enforced, drug laws, this criminal activity is the same across all major ethnic identities in the U.S. White supremacist organizations love to highlight the fact of minority incarcerations outweighing that of whites but they completely ignore facts such as the relatively short time period this has been so and the reasons as to why this is the case.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

Your entire statement is flawed. Saying "black people are generally not very educated" is indeed racist, its just worded different. Its still a generalization. If you said "disadvantaged African-Americans typically have a poor educational background" would be a lot better. Again intelligence by and large is not necessarily based on ethnic identity

I would refer you to what I said. I said it depends on who says it, and backed it up with an example. Also, you are falsely assuming that not being well educated and stupidity are the same. I agree that your statement is a lot better than what I stated, perhaps I should have worded it differently, but my point still stands.

 

[Vendetta]

In the United States, whites are 80 percent of the population, and commit 51 percent of reported rapes. Blacks are 13 percent of the population, and commit 16 percent of reported rapes. Actually, it's much higher - I don't know how to do the math when you factor in black on black rape.

Race and ethnicity in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

White Americans (non-Hispanic/Latino and Hispanic/Latino) are the racial majority, with an 80% share of the U.S. population, per official estimates from the Population Estimates Program (PEP),[ or 75% per the American Community Survey (ACS). Hispanic and Latino Americans compose 15% of the population. Black Americans are the largest racial minority, composing nearly 13% of the population.


Rape statistics - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

There were 194,270 white and 17,920 black victims of rape or sexual assault reported in 2006. Out of the 194,270 cases involving white victims, 50.6% had white offenders and 16.7% had black offenders, while the 36,620 black victims had a figure of 43% black offenders, the remaining being of other or unreported race, with a negligible number of white offenders.



I don't make this stuff up, unfortunately.

Thanks for the info. I just wanted to see statistics on that

 

[Vendetta]

I would refer you to what I said. I said it depends on who says it, and backed it up with an example. Also, you are falsely assuming that not being well educated and stupidity are the same. I agree that your statement is a lot better than what I stated, perhaps I should have worded it differently, but my point still stands.

I don't mean to barge on your response to Barcode but most.commonly, people have a tendency to make lack of education and stupidity the same thing. Just as people tend to think people who have dyslexia are ignorant. I would actually disagree with you on one matter racism and racist statements no matter who says it is still racist. For example if I said: "All African-Americans are ghetto and ignorant" I am making a prejudiced claim (or racist depending on how I say it." Nonetheless, because I myself am African-American it is still an irrational classification of a people and indeed since I am apart of that I am essentially categorizing myself and there is a popular term called "self-hatred."

Of course if a white person made that comment it would most definitely be perceived as racist, however the intensity of such a pejorative statement is paradoxically lessened if a person is of the same race making that claim.

Here is another phenomena we in this thread haven't addressed:

What about False-Positive claims of ethnic groups?

For example the claim that "All Asians are smart" or "Whites have superior intellect" or "Jews are God's favorite." All seem to have the irrational notion that people belonging to this group inherent such positive traits.

 

[FlyingTeaPot]

I don't mean to barge on your response to Barcode but most.commonly, people have a tendency to make lack of education and stupidity the same thing. Just as people tend to think people who have dyslexia are ignorant. I would actually disagree with you on one matter racism and racist statements no matter who says it is still racist. For example if I said: "All African-Americans are ghetto and ignorant" I am making a prejudiced claim (or racist depending on how I say it." Nonetheless, because I myself am African-American it is still an irrational classification of a people and indeed since I am apart of that I am essentially categorizing myself and there is a popular term called "self-hatred."

I think people should know the meanings of simple words.

definition: Stupid [adj.]
lacking ordinary quickness and keenness of mind; dull.

This is no way relates to the level of education one has. People who equate stupidity with levels of education are either ignorant or do not have sufficient grasp of the English language.

I think I should have made clear that the thrust of my response deals with the intent behind making a claim. A malevolent or self hating statement without a basis for making that statement is indeed racist. It is in fact, the dictionary definition of racism. Doesn't matter who says it.

Racism [n]
1. the belief that races have distinctive cultural characteristics determined by hereditary factors and that this endows some races with an intrinsic superiority over others.

My example doesn't imply that black people are less well educated because they are black, rather, it is a statement of fact, with a view to perhaps change the educational system. What I meant by "depending on who says it" was, suppose it was said by the director of education in DC about the statistics in the DC area with a view to push for better teachers, it wouldn't be racist. Racism and intent go hand in hand. I didn't mean " if a black person says it about another black person, it is okay". Just wanted to make that clear.

Of course if a white person made that comment it would most definitely be perceived as racist, however the intensity of such a pejorative statement is paradoxically lessened if a person is of the same race making that claim.

Sadly, this is true. We must work towards understanding what racism really is, rather than what we perceive it to be or what feels like racism to us.

Here is another phenomena we in this thread haven't addressed:

What about False-Positive claims of ethnic groups?

For example the claim that "All Asians are smart" or "Whites have superior intellect" or "Jews are God's favorite." All seem to have the irrational notion that people belonging to this group inherent such positive traits.

I think it is irrational to assign adjectives to people because of their skin color or where they are born.
I think false-positive claims are definitely racist, as they elevate one section of people to a higher level than the rest of us, based upon no evidence. And if one sect is higher, it must mean that the rest are lower than them, leading to the whole superiority complex and racism thing all over again.

 

[Vendetta]

Good point FTP

 

[Lavender]

There is no doubt that racially insensitive remarks are made, and that there are even out and out racists in society, but overall thought Jonah Goldberg's article from last week is correct.

‘That’s Racist’
Jonah Goldberg Archive - National Review Online

 

[Kilgore Trout]

I find racism to be rather meaningless exercise when measured against the fact that most people of every race and color suck.

 

[Kathryn]

There is no doubt that racially insensitive remarks are made, and that there are even out and out racists in society, but overall thought Jonah Goldberg's article from last week is correct.

‘That’s Racist’
Jonah Goldberg Archive - National Review Online

Great article! But you've got a lot of nerve posting something from National Review on THIS forum!