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Rape Culture is Real

illykitty

RF's pet cat
You misspelled "person".

Perhaps I should have put person yes, I am well aware it's not a gender specific issue but I was pouring my heart out and spoke from my own perspective.

I talked about how hurt I was from my aunt and her sister in law. They are culprit of not making a big deal out of it and accusing me of lying.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Topic for debate: do you believe rape culture exists? Is it as Kitchens writes a product from hysterical feminists? How do we all respond to sexual violence?

yes i believe it exists. Its not that its acceptable, but its tolerated and the victims are often accused of causing it because of their supposed 'provocative' conduct. And we all know that if you provoke someone, then they are not really to blame and its the provoker who is more responsible.

Recently 3800 respondents in Brazil were asked if its ok to rape a woman who is dressed in revelealing clothing. A Whopping 65% answered Yes. :confused:

But I think this is a terrible excuse and what i think is at the heart of rape is a lack of morals among the general population. I also think that many men see woman as sleezy because of all the pornography they look at...if they are constantly filling their minds with images of woman portrayed as sex crazed dirty and ready to copulate with anything that moves, then this is going to affect their views of women.
 

Karl R

Active Member
Topic for debate: do you believe rape culture exists?
There are certainly problems with how our society deals with rape. However, I think part of the disagreement is about what people define as "rape culture."

From this link:
Examples of Rape Culture:
Blaming the victim (“She asked for it!”)
Trivializing sexual assault (“Boys will be boys!”)
Sexually explicit jokes
Tolerance of sexual harassment
Inflating false rape report statistics
Publicly scrutinizing a victim’s dress, mental state, motives, and history
Gratuitous gendered violence in movies and television
Defining “manhood” as dominant and sexually aggressive
Defining “womanhood” as submissive and sexually passive
Pressure on men to “score”
Pressure on women to not appear “cold”
Assuming only promiscuous women get raped
Assuming that men don’t get raped or that only “weak” men get raped
Refusing to take rape accusations seriously
Teaching women to avoid getting raped instead of teaching men not to rape
I'm going to disagree with the two in red, particularly the last one.

Rape is illegal. People know it's illegal. In addition, students (of an appropriate age) need to be taught which actions qualify as rape/sexual assault. If we're not teaching them that, then there is a societal problem. (I was taught which actions were illegal when I was in high school. I assume that kind of teaching has become more common in the decades since.)

However, when there's a rash of burglaries in the area, police and reporters start informing homeowners how to make their houses less of a target. When visiting certain cities, visitors are informed how to avoid being targeted by pickpockets and con artists.

This isn't because we live in a "theft culture."

The burglars, pickpockets and con artists know what they're doing is illegal. They just don't care. You can "teach" them that it's wrong as much as you want, but it's not going to solve the problem. They want to steal.

Similarly, the rapists want to rape. They're not raping out of ignorance. They're raping because they don't care.

Whether it's theft or rape, we educate the potential victims, because the perpetrators don't want to change. Educating the perpetrators is pointless.

How do we all respond to sexual violence?
The problem goes beyond how society views rape. It also involves how society views sex.

Less than a month ago (March 13th) in Houston, a man heard a noise coming from his teenaged daughter's bedroom. He entered and found a teenager in the room with his daughter.

The father asked his daughter if she knew the young man, she said she didn't. The father ordered the young man to stay still. The young man reached for something, and the father shot him.

The wound was fatal.

The daughter later admitted that the teenager was her boyfriend, and she had snuck him into the house. The young man was unarmed.

It's horrible for all three of them (father, daughter, boyfriend), and the death wouldn't have happened if the daughter had been unafraid of truthfully telling her father that she'd been fooling around with her boyfriend.

Tying this back to the topic:
I believe that false accusations of rape are rare. However, that story shows us a scenario where a young woman lied about consensual sexual activity. She did so out of fear of the consequences.

If there were no consequences, there would be no reason for her to lie.

Rape is under-reported. False accusations are rare, but they do exist. In addition, there have been multiple cases where men convicted of rape were exonerated years later (or decades later) by DNA evidence.

The criminal justice system has to protect people who are falsely accused. Since the system isn't omniscient, it has to protect the rights of everyone accused, even if they're horrible people.

The situation is made more difficult due to the nature of rape cases. Unless the victim reported it immediately, there's probably no DNA evidence. The entire case hinges on the victim's testimony. Even if there is DNA evidence, the case requires testimony that the acts were not consensual.

Rapists target vulnerable people. People who are unwilling or unable to make good witnesses (children, troubled teenagers, mentally retarded, mentally ill, elderly, drunk, drugged, illegal immigrants). I don't know that we'll ever find a way to make rape cases simple or easy.

What society can do:
Get rid of the stigma around rape. People are ashamed/afraid of what people will think. There shouldn't be any shame attached to being the victim. The shame should be attached to the person who committed the rape.

That is a change we can all actively create.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I think rape culture is real, and -- like almost all cultural traits -- there's a sense in which people scarcely notice it.
 

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
I also think that many men see woman as sleezy because of all the pornography they look at...if they are constantly filling their minds with images of woman portrayed as sex crazed dirty and ready to copulate with anything that moves, then this is going to affect their views of women.

Pretty much all men are stereotyped as sex crazed, dirty, and ready to copulate with anything that moves. If stereotyping people in this manner affects them negatively, why are men seen as privelaged?
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Pretty much all men are stereotyped as sex crazed, dirty, and ready to copulate with anything that moves. If stereotyping people in this manner affects them negatively, why are men seen as privelaged?

Must a group of people be privileged in every which way for them to be privileged at all?
 

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
Must a group of people be privileged in every which way for them to be privileged at all?

I don't really know what you mean by this, but I will clarify what I meant.

I was trying to say that maybe viewing women as people who love sex isn't the root of that particular problem, instead viewing them as someone who shouldn't love sex hurts them more than loving sex.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
I don't really know what you mean by this, but I will clarify what I meant.

I was trying to say that maybe viewing women as people who love sex isn't the root of that particular problem, instead viewing them as someone who shouldn't love sex hurts them more than loving sex.

Thanks for the clarification! As it happens, I agree with you.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I don't really know what you mean by this, but I will clarify what I meant.

I was trying to say that maybe viewing women as people who love sex isn't the root of that particular problem, instead viewing them as someone who shouldn't love sex hurts them more than loving sex.

but isnt this the exact image pornography is portraying...women who love and want lots of sex?

And this has not promoted more respect for women at all.... it promotes the opposite.
 

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
but isnt this the exact image pornography is portraying...women who love and want lots of sex?

And this has not promoted more respect for women at all.... it promotes the opposite.

Because people think women who like sex shouldn't be respected. It isn't how women are portrayed that hurt women, it's how people treat women portrayed that way that hurt women.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Because people think women who like sex shouldn't be respected. It isn't how women are portrayed that hurt women, it's how people treat women portrayed that way that hurt women.

frankly, people shouidnt be 'thinking' about other peoples sexual activity anyway.

A persons sexual activity should never be the focus for anyone but the person and their intimate partner.

Sex should only ever involve the two people concerned...it is not something anyone else should chime in on and judge or even think about let alone want to watch. So why is everyone even 'thinking' about the sexual activity of a women (or man) with whom they are not in an intimate relationship with???
 

freethinker44

Well-Known Member
frankly, people shouidnt be 'thinking' about other peoples sexual activity anyway.

A persons sexual activity should never be the focus for anyone but the person and their intimate partner.

Sex should only ever involve the two people concerned...it is not something anyone else should chime in on and judge or even think about let alone want to watch.

Why do you think sexuality is something that should be hidden?

So why is everyone even 'thinking' about the sexual activity of a women (or man) with whom they are not in an intimate relationship with???

Why not? If they don't care sharing it why should anyone else? If you don't like it, don't watch it. Repression doesn't make anything better.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Why do you think sexuality is something that should be hidden?

because when its a free for all, it gets abused and isnt that where rape culture begins??

Why not? If they don't care sharing it why should anyone else? If you don't like it, don't watch it. Repression doesn't make anything better.

and a free for all leads to abuse and the rape culture we are currently experiencing.

If sex is not respected and honoured, its abused and misused. And you dont show respect for something by treating it like trash and selling it. By selling it, you decrease its value and worth and when people dont value 'anything' they misuse and abuse it.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
frankly, people shouidnt be 'thinking' about other peoples sexual activity anyway.

A persons sexual activity should never be the focus for anyone but the person and their intimate partner.

Sex should only ever involve the two people concerned...it is not something anyone else should chime in on and judge or even think about let alone want to watch. So why is everyone even 'thinking' about the sexual activity of a women (or man) with whom they are not in an intimate relationship with???

It doesn't bother me when my friends share their sexuality with me. It's really no biggie.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
because when its a free for all, it gets abused and isnt that where rape culture begins??

Nope. So far as I can make out, rape culture actually begins with a sense of male privilege and female submission to that privilege.
 

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
Nope. So far as I can make out, rape culture actually begins with a sense of male privilege and female submission to that privilege.

i dont believe women submit to being raped.

Rape is when someone takes something that they have no right to take. And why do people take what doesnt belong to them? Lack of respect and lack of good morals.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
i dont believe women submit to being raped.

Rape is when someone takes something that they have no right to take. And why do people take what doesnt belong to them? Lack of respect and lack of good morals.

I'm not talking about women submitting to rape. I'm talking about them submitting to the notion, the ideology, that men should be privileged. Perhaps because they are taught men are superior.
 
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Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
I'm not talking about women submitting to rape. I'm talking about them submitting to the notion, the ideology, that men should be privileged. Perhaps because they are taught men are superior.

no, dont put the problem back onto women as if its happening because women allow it to happen because of their own false notions and ideologies.

No. This is a problem of immorality and lack of respect on the part of those who commit such crimes against others.

Im sure you'd never say that children are the cause of pedophilia because they are too naive to know when sexual advances are being made against them. So we should never assume that this problem begins with women.
 

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
no, dont put the problem back onto women as if its happening because women allow it to happen because of their own false notions and ideologies.

No. This is a problem of immorality and lack of respect on the part of those who commit such crimes against others.

Im sure you'd never say that children are the cause of pedophilia because they are too naive to know when sexual advances are being made against them. So we should never assume that this problem begins with women.

Are you willfully trying to misunderstand me, Pegg? Is that your game?
 
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