Rape culture

[Curious George]

I have already replied to it.

You are again arguing whether ere is some rape culture at all, I ve already said yes and thinker has done so too.

We are actually talking about whether it is big enough to warrant an alarmist label, or if any, from where does it come from.

The heinous nature of the crime and the abundance of rape in our society.

 

[Me Myself]

The heinous nature of the crime and the abundance of rape in our society.

Maybe the abundance. Though I would wonder which does it really is. I ve heard one in four or something like that and I wonder how do they got auch a figure.

 

[Curious George]

Maybe the abundance. Though I would wonder which does it really is. I ve heard one in four or something like that and I wonder how do they got auch a figure.

I am not sure. But I think that it is pretty much undeniable that rape despite being one of the most heinous crimes occurs at a frequency much greater than murder.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

You are again arguing whether ere is some rape culture at all

No, I'm not.

 

[Me Myself]

I am not sure. But I think that it is pretty much undeniable that rape despite being one of the most heinous crimes occurs at a frequency much greater than murder.

I would think a lot of that is biological more than cultural.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

I am not sure. But I think that it is pretty much undeniable that rape despite being one of the most heinous crimes occurs at a frequency much greater than murder.

And more pertinently to this conversation, that certain societal/cultural factors contribute to the incidence of rape and/or obstruct its successful identification and prosecution.

 

[Poeticus]

The heinous nature of the crime and the abundance of rape in our society.

Rape is one of the most heinous crimes of all time. That's a no brainer, literally. I don't know why murder vs rape is being argued. Such an argument is, IMHO, literally a straw-man.

And, contrary to popular misconception, USA has a horrid high level of rape (I'm assuming you, like me, are from USA also; if not, sowwie.)

But, at least the USA police doesn't have the mentality that the Turkish forces have (something which we, as Americans, can be happy about just little bit, eh?):

"The attitude of the police in many countries often discourages victims from reporting rape: one study in Turkey found that 33% of police officers agreed with the assertion that "some women deserve rape" and 66% agreed that "the physical appearance and behaviors of women tempt men to rape."
source

And, at least we don't have to worry about religious councils telling the government what they can and can't use to prosecute rapists, like Pakistan:

"On 12 July 2013, Council of Islamic Ideology of Pakistan dismissed DNA tests as evidence for rapes, and declared that without witnesses no rapes would be recognized."
source

And, India has a rape culture in cities like Delhi, Mumbai, and a few other cities, but foreign tourists keep going to tour those cities instead of safer cities elsewhere in India.

 

[Me Myself]

And more pertinently to this conversation, that certain societal/cultural factors contribute to the incidence of rape and/or obstruct its successful identification and prosecution.

The biggest problem for prosecution is that it is more than most other crimes completely reliant on he says she says.

No, I'm not.

Very well, in that case:


Well, one big sexism that happens in rape cases is that many things a woman does to a man without anyone raising a legal eyebrow would be very different the other way around.

WWYD shows interesting cases were women doing stuff to men is way less reported than the other way around, one of this was sexual harrasment at work.

So "rape" being something men do to women (or to other men) is an important part of how rape is seen in culture.

For example, there was a movie about killing bosses were the female dentist raped her assistent. This was seen as comedy. While everybody wanted to kill the dentist in the audience ( though surely many men wanted to have sex with her first ) the movie would have changed of tone completely if the genders were inversed.

So yeah, there is sexism in the way we see rape.

 

[Enai de a lukal]

The biggest problem for prosecution is that it is more than most other crimes completely reliant on he says she says.

That may be, but we're basically just guessing here.

Very well, in that case:


Well, one big sexism that happens in rape cases is that many things a woman does to a man without anyone raising a legal eyebrow would be very different the other way around.

WWYD shows interesting cases were women doing stuff to men is way less reported than the other way around, one of this was sexual harrasment at work.

So "rape" being something men do to women (or to other men) is an important part of how rape is seen in culture.

For example, there was a movie about killing bosses were the female dentist raped her assistent. This was seen as comedy. While everybody wanted to kill the dentist in the audience ( though surely many men wanted to have sex with her first ) the movie would have changed of tone completely if the genders were inversed.

So yeah, there is sexism in the way we see rape.

Wait... You're trying to say that the way we view rape is sexist... towards men?

Lol.

 

[Me Myself]

That may be, but we're basically just guessing here.

And so are the juries. This is a problem

That may be, but we're basically just guessing here.


Wait... You're trying to say that the way we view rape is sexist... towards men?

Lol.

Of course its sexist against men.

Its also sexist against men in domestic abuse cases.

 

[Me Myself]

The woman is supposed to be wanting sex with anyone because she dresses in a certain way? Maybe that is so (that people believe this I mean) but the man is supposed to want sex with anyone because he has a penis.

A bit worst aint it?

 

[Enai de a lukal]

The woman is supposed to be wanting sex with anyone because she dresses in a certain way? Maybe that is so (that people believe this I mean) but the man is supposed to want sex with anyone because he has a penis.

A bit worst aint it?

Sure doesn't look like it; since the former attitude justifies and rationalizes a violent, intrusive, immoral, and criminal act, whereas the latter does not.

 

[Me Myself]

Sure doesn't look like it; since the former attitude justifies and rationalizes a violent, intrusive, immoral, and criminal act, whereas the latter does not.

What?

 

[Curious George]

The biggest problem for prosecution is that it is more than most other crimes completely reliant on he says she says.




Very well, in that case:


Well, one big sexism that happens in rape cases is that many things a woman does to a man without anyone raising a legal eyebrow would be very different the other way around.

WWYD shows interesting cases were women doing stuff to men is way less reported than the other way around, one of this was sexual harrasment at work.

So "rape" being something men do to women (or to other men) is an important part of how rape is seen in culture.

For example, there was a movie about killing bosses were the female dentist raped her assistent. This was seen as comedy. While everybody wanted to kill the dentist in the audience ( though surely many men wanted to have sex with her first ) the movie would have changed of tone completely if the genders were inversed.

So yeah, there is sexism in the way we see rape.

Yes, absolutely. The idea that a man wants it, or that the perpetrators must be male is absolutely part of rape culture. So is prisoners deserve it. The denial or hiding of female sexuality, the favoring of male attributes, and the conception that sex is a male doing something to the woman are all part of rape culture. These effect both males and females negatively, and theoretically all contribute or encourage rape. If you can see part of the equation, why cannot you see the other parts? Such as blaming and shaming the victim, or diminishing the guilt of the perpetrators?

 

[Poeticus]

If you can see part of the equation, why cannot you see the other parts? Such as blaming and shaming the victim, or diminishing the guilt of the perpetrators?

Yes, you are correct: those are part of rape culture as well. I seriously hope people are not arguing that they are not part of rape culture...that, too, is straw-manning, IMHO.

 

[Me Myself]

Yes, absolutely. The idea that a man wants it, or that the perpetrators must be male is absolutely part of rape culture. So is prisoners deserve it. The denial or hiding of female sexuality, the favoring of male attributes, and the conception that sex is a male doing something to the woman are all part of rape culture. These effect both males and females negatively, and theoretically all contribute or encourage rape. If you can see part of the equation, why cannot you see the other parts? Such as blaming and shaming the victim, or diminishing the guilt of the perpetrators?

The perpetrators guilt must never be deminished once it has been found for certain that s/he is actually so.

Shaming the victim is unsensible and useless. That said, as I said earlier, in some cases talking the victim out of certain things before they happen makes sense. After, you cant do mych but see the victim doesnt repeat the mistake.

In robbery, it has to do with having your car locked, not parking a really awesome car in certain nehborhoods at all, not wearing gold or clearly displaying i phones or similar technological devices at night or certain neighborhood, etc.

With rape, I dont know. I know here iEcuador, there are certainly streets I wouldnt like my friends walking alone at night because of precisely that fright. Most if not all of them matter of fact.

 

[Poeticus]

After, you cant do mych but see the victim doesnt repeat the mistake.

What mistake???

 

[psychoslice]

The woman is supposed to be wanting sex with anyone because she dresses in a certain way? Maybe that is so (that people believe this I mean) but the man is supposed to want sex with anyone because he has a penis.

A bit worst aint it?

He He, that's funny, but sadly true.

 

[Me Myself]

What mistake???

Depends on each case. Generally has to do with needless risk taking.

Guayaquil turist guides in english talk about a lot of possible mistakes tourists shouldnt make because of how unsafe the city is. This doesnt mean the criminals are any less guilty, it just means that one has to be realist and not endanger one's life needlessly.

For example, taking an unknown taxi can be a big mistake here. You want to call a service of taxis and take the one from such service. Walking alone at night tends to be a big mistake (which I have often made, thank God without it coming to anything too big) .

Parking your car somewhere without putting locks on it, big mistake. Etc

Its not about the victim being the sole responsible, its about not running stupid risks.

This does not mean all circumstances of rape had obvious signs, maybe almost none does. But it would be a mistake to say its wrong to tell the victim what they could have done differently (had there been anything) so to not put herself at high risk.

 

[Poeticus]

Depends on each case. Generally has to do with needless risk taking.

Guayaquil turist guides in english talk about a lot of possible mistakes tourists shouldnt make because of how unsafe the city is. This doesnt mean the criminals are any less guilty, it just means that one has to be realist and not endanger one's life needlessly.

For example, taking an unknown taxi can be a big mistake here. You want to call a service of taxis and take the one from such service. Walking alone at night tends to be a big mistake (which I have often made, thank God without it coming to anything too big) .

Parking your car somewhere without putting locks on it, big mistake. Etc

Its not about the victim being the sole responsible, its about not running stupid risks.

This does not mean all circumstances of rape had obvious signs, maybe almost none does. But it would be a mistake to say its wrong to tell the victim what they could have done differently (had there been anything) so to not put herself at high risk.

Phew! I thought you meant something else! Thanks for clarifying.