Rapture Letter (Automatic Email Sent Out to Specified Recipients After the First Resurrection)

[FFH]

Yes, the triumphalism of the fundagelical. Wonderful. Read the linked article. It has all the scriptural references you'll need.

With MAN'S false, LYING, interpretation.

 

[Dunemeister]

With MAN'S false, LYING, interpretation.

So why is Wright producing "man's false lying interpretation" and not the LDS church or the other ninteenth century American fundagelicals that invented the rapture doctrine? Suspiciously, there is no record of this "rapture" doctrine anytime or anyplace prior to ninteenth century American fundagelicalism.

What should people think? Movement X and Y, both begun in ninteenth century America, created a doctrine never seen before in the history of the church and which bears no connection whatsoever with the rest of church history and doctrine. Is this "new revelation" or a radical misunderstanding of a two-millenia-old mixed metaphor? To see the force of this argument, let's assume for a moment that you'd never heard of a "rapture." Then you hear that a couple of movements started in Albania in the last hundred and fifty years or so "found" that doctrine in scripture, appealing most crucially to 1 Thessalonians 4:17. What should we think? Should we think that the worldwide church somehow "missed" that verse for 2000 years or that these new movements are playing shenanigans with the text or, separated as they have been from the historical interaction of the church with the text, are simply unaware that the church already knew how to handle that text?

The latter seems more reasonable to me, and Wright's argument seems to me to be bang on. You can call him names (liar et al) or you can actually deal with his argument. You decide which method is wise.

 

[FFH]

So why is Wright producing "man's false lying interpretation" and not the LDS church or the other ninteenth century American fundagelicals that invented the rapture doctrine? Suspiciously, there is no record of this "rapture" doctrine anytime or anyplace prior to ninteenth century American fundagelicalism.

What should people think? Movement X and Y, both begun in ninteenth century America, created a doctrine never seen before in the history of the church and which bears no connection whatsoever with the rest of church history and doctrine. Is this "new revelation" or a radical misunderstanding of a two-millenia-old mixed metaphor? To see the force of this argument, let's assume for a moment that you'd never heard of a "rapture." Then you hear that a couple of movements started in Albania in the last hundred and fifty years or so "found" that doctrine in scripture, appealing most crucially to 1 Thessalonians 4:17. What should we think? Should we think that the worldwide church somehow "missed" that verse for 2000 years or that these new movements are playing shenanigans with the text or, separated as they have been from the historical interaction of the church with the text, are simply unaware that the church already knew how to handle that text?

The latter seems more reasonable to me, and Wright's argument seems to me to be bang on. You can call him names (liar et al) or you can actually deal with his argument. You decide which method is wise.

Two choices
1) Metaphorical
2) Literal

"...caught up unto God, and to his throne."

Revelation 12: 5
And she (church) brought forth a man child (bride of Christ), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron (scriptures): and her child (bride of Christ) was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

1 Nephi 11: 25 (Book of Mormon)
And it came to pass that I beheld that the rod of iron (scriptures), which my father had seen, was the word of God, which led to the fountain of living waters, or to the tree of life; which waters are a representation of the love of God; and I also beheld that the tree of life was a representation of the love of God.

 

[logician]

Let's face it, if you've waited for 2K+ years for something to happen that by scripture. should have happened 2K years ago,it probably ain't gonna happen.

 

[Dunemeister]

Let's face it, if you've waited for 2K+ years for something to happen that by scripture. should have happened 2K years ago,it probably ain't gonna happen.

If you were even moderately familiar with the texts at issue, you wouldn't display such ignorance.

 

[Dunemeister]

Two choices
1) Metaphorical
2) Literal

"...caught up unto God, and to his throne."

Revelation 12: 5
And she (church) brought forth a man child (bride of Christ), who was to rule all nations with a rod of iron (scripture): and her child (bride of Christ) was caught up unto God, and to his throne.

Repetition of the word "caught up" does improve your reading of it. I once again refer you to Wright's paper. What he says there about the use of the term by Paul also applies to John's use of it in Revelation. To be "caught up" to God does not mean physically whisked away semi-permanently to the skies.

 

[FFH]

Let's face it, if you've waited for 2K+ years for something to happen that by scripture. should have happened 2K years ago,it probably ain't gonna happen.

Luke 21: 32
Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass away, till all be fulfilled.

Matthew 23: 39 (Joseph Smith Inspired Version)
Verily, I say unto you, this generation, in which these things shall be shown forth, shall not pass away until all I have told you shall be fulfilled.

Then Jesus goes onto describe the last days in Mathew 24.

 

[FFH]

Repetition of the word "caught up" does improve your reading of it. I once again refer you to Wright's paper. What he says there about the use of the term by Paul also applies to John's use of it in Revelation. To be "caught up" to God does not mean physically whisked away semi-permanently to the skies.

I've read your link to Wright's false theories.

2 Corinthians 12: 2
I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell); God knoweth such an one caught up to the third heaven (celestial kingdom).

Doctrine and Coveants 137: 1 (LDS Scripture)
The heavens were opened upon us, and I beheld the celestial kingdom of God, and the glory thereof, whether in the body or out I cannot tell.

Few will be caught up into heaven when Christ comes the second time.

 

[dawny0826]

As I said, my opinions and those of the linked author are exactly the same. I could copy and paste, but what would be the point?

Fair enough and I did read what you provided. It all boils down to personal interpretation. Vivid metaphor or not, we can't prove Paul's meaning, we can only interpret Paul's meaning. I choose not to negate the beliefs of Christian brethren who embrace the concept of a literal rapture.

 

[Dunemeister]

Fair enough and I did read what you provided. It all boils down to personal interpretation. Vivid metaphor or not, we can't prove Paul's meaning, we can only interpret Paul's meaning. I choose not to negate the beliefs of Christian brethren who embrace the concept of a literal rapture.

Well, I do, because they are part and parcel of a very dangerous political ideology. (We don't have to work for social justice now 'cause God'll clean up the mess later; what's important is a person's soul, not the social reality he lives in, yaddayaddayadda). And it's simply erroneous to say that we can't reconstruct Paul's meaning. Wright has done just that. And Wright's reconstruction is far and away superior to nineteenth-century jonny-come-latelies who "discover" doctrines not heard of in the previous 1800 years.

 

[dawny0826]

Well, I do, because they are part and parcel of a very dangerous political ideology. (We don't have to work for social justice now 'cause God'll clean up the mess later; what's important is a person's soul, not the social reality he lives in, yaddayaddayadda). And it's simply erroneous to say that we can't reconstruct Paul's meaning. Wright has done just that. And Wright's reconstruction is far and away superior to nineteenth-century jonny-come-latelies who "discover" doctrines not heard of in the previous 1800 years.

Yes, no doubt, there are those right wing nut jobs who take their religious views to the extreme and use their belief system to infringe upon the rights of others.

We're talking rapture here though...most of the Christians in my life take comfort in their faith that they, one day, will be lifted up in the clouds to join their Saviour. This hope inspires them to keep going and that's what it means to them.

So, I don't really care about Wright's reconstruction. Here's a cookie for those who prefer that line of thinking. I still see no reason to belittle those who "buy" into the rapture. Not ALL prescribe to radical right wing thinking.

 

[Dunemeister]

Yes, no doubt, there are those right wing nut jobs who take their religious views to the extreme and use their belief system to infringe upon the rights of others.

We're talking rapture here though...most of the Christians in my life take comfort in their faith that they, one day, will be lifted up in the clouds to join their Saviour. This hope inspires them to keep going and that's what it means to them.

So, I don't really care about Wright's reconstruction. Here's a cookie for those who prefer that line of thinking. I still see no reason to belittle those who "buy" into the rapture. Not ALL prescribe to radical right wing thinking.

It's not about belittling, it's about correcting. Belittling is referring to an eminent theologian's studied view as a "cookie for those who prefer that line of thinking." It's not. It's the historical teaching of the worldwide church. Literal rapture theology is a dangerous deviation from this regardless of the fact that some people find "comfort" in it. (People find "comfort" in the theory of Santa's coming down a chimney; that's nothing in favor of the Santa theory.)

If you don't "care about" Wright's reconstruction, that's fine (I suppose). There's no law that says Christians need to be educated in the faith beyond what is popularly preached from pulpits. There's certainly no requirement for historical perspective or anything other than a "this is what this text means to ME" practice. But there are consequences for so taking things. For one, you might be tempted to prepare rapture letters.

 

[FFH]

YouTube - Prophecy: No Fear No Respect - 5 July 2009

This is a revelation from Jesus Christ, given to a lady named Christena, who's originally from South Africa, and now lives in Baltimore, Maryland.

From the link above...

"You wonder why the world is in this mess, even your own country? It is because man has no fear and no respect for Me, their Creator, the God of heaven and earth. They fear man. They will regret it. Many do not believe that I exist. They have no fear or respect for Me and My Holy Name because they do not know Me or My power. Many only use My Holy Name as a curse word. Soon they will call on My Name in their distress and I will not hear, when I called they did not pay attention.

Many don't know that I am in control and that I reign over all the kingdoms of man. My Kingdom is the only Kingdom that will last forever and will not be shaken or destroyed. I will shake and destroy man made kingdoms and their rulers. They do not fear or respect Me, they will perish.

I am the King of kings and the Lord of lords, God Almighty to be feared and respected. I am, I was and I am coming. I am the Righteous Judge, I will judge in righteousness and truth, no one will escape. I am the only One who is able to kill the body and the soul and throw in hell. Man can only kill the body. Why do you fear man? It is a snare from satan so that you will lose your fear for Me and concentrate on man who is but nothing.

Man will fear and tremble when they see My wrath being poured out on this earth like never before. For many it will be too late. When it was time to be serious, to fear and respect Me, they mocked and scoffed and took no heed to My Warnings. They will pay the price for their rebelliousness and stubbornness. Man makes his own choices, many made the wrong choices against Me.

It is time for man to fear and respect Me or bear the consequences of their deeds. I force no one. It will be a terrible day to fall in the Hands of a Living God. I am a God of love but alsos a consuming fire. Too many will find out too late. Judgement is imminent. I will show no mercy if ther is no repentance. Now is the time for mercy, that day will be Judgement, not mercy. I am the Righteous Judge. Repent before it will be too late. No fear, no respect, no mercy."

 

[Dunemeister]

YouTube - Prophecy: No Fear No Respect - 5 July 2009

"You wonder why the world is in this mess, even your own country? It is because man has no fear and no respect for Me, their Creator, the God of heaven and earth. They fear man. They will regret it. Many do not believe that I exist. They have no fear or respect for Me and My Holy Name because they do not know Me or My power. Many only use My Holy Name as a curse word. Soon they will call on My Name in their distress and I will not hear, when I called they did not pay attention.

Many don't know that I am in control and that I reign over all the kingdoms of man. My Kingdom is the only Kingdom that will last forever and will not be shaken or destroyed. I will shake and destroy man made kingdoms and their rulers. They do not fear or respect Me, they will perish.

I am the King of kings and the Lord of lords, God Almighty to be feared and respected. I am, I was and I am coming. I am the Righteous Judge, I will judge in righteousness and truth, no one will escape. I am the only One who is able to kill the body and the soul and throw in hell. Man can only kill the body. Why do you fear man? It is a snare from satan so that you will lose your fear for Me and concentrate on man who is but nothing.

Man will fear and tremble when they see My wrath being poured out on this earth like never before. For many it will be too late. When it was time to be serious, to fear and respect Me, they mocked and scoffed and took no heed to My Warnings. They will pay the price for their rebelliousness and stubbornness. Man makes his own choices, many made the wrong choices against Me.

It is time for man to fear and respect Me or bear the consequences of their deeds. I force no one. It will be a terrible day to fall in the Hands of a Living God. I am a God of love but alsos a consuming fire. Too many will find out too late. Judgement is imminent. I will show no mercy if ther is no repentance. Now is the time for mercy, that day will be Judgement, not mercy. I am the Righteous Judge. Repent before it will be too late. No fear, no respect, no mercy."

Isn't there a rule on this forum about preaching/proselitizing?

 

[zomg]

Similar scripture can be found in biblical text that isn't LDS-specific.

Yeah, my bad. Major brain fart. :sorry1:

 

[SoyLeche]

FYI: Post Rapture Pet Care :: Care for your pets after your gone

Do you wonder what is going to happen to your pets when Jesus descends from Heaven to re-unite the Church with the Father taking all Christians - dead and alive - up to Heaven? Will your pets be left behind with no-one to care for them?

Have no fear! We at Post Rapture Pet Care are confirmed atheists and as such will be part of the left behind when the time comes. Just because we are atheists doesn't mean we are not animal lovers. We adore all kind of pets and would love to look after your pets after you are gone.

For a small donation of £69.99 pounds, we will make sure your pets are well fed and taken care of long after you and your family have been taken up.

We have representatives in the South East of England and also in the North East of Scotland so can accommodate for most areas of the country giving you peace of mind where ever you are.

This is not a joke. We feel very strongly about pet care and want to offer the best possible services to British pet owners. Feel free to get in touch at [email protected] for more info.

 

[FFH]

FYI: Post Rapture Pet Care :: Care for your pets after your gone

Very funny. I have something to add along these SAME lines.

Listen to this girl's testimony (dream she had) of what's about to happen.

Gabriel is Noah's name in Heaven, for those who don't know.

Dream about Angel Gabriel

 

[FFH]

Dream: Jesus is coming & Warn: I will come

Here's the text from that video.

July 11 2009
Dream: JESUS IS COMING

In the dream, I was somewhere standing outside looking up to the sky for something. Next I saw something appearing in the sky and as I looked a huge white writing appeared. It read, "JESUS IS COMING" and at the end of the writing a huge cross appeared. Then after a while it all got vague as I looked down, I saw another huge cross and on it's edges were little flickering lights, which illuminated the cross.

July 12, 2009
WARN: I WILL COME

Warn the world, I will come, they must be ready. I died for all on the cross and do not want even one to perish, but that all would come to repentance in time, before I return.

My promises never fail. Many do not perceive the time they are living in, they are asleep, lovers of the world and unholy. Others stray, not watching, praying and warning, not prepared themselves.

Many do not have enough oil in their lamps, they will seek for more oil when it will be too late. now is the time to prepare yourself, see that you have enough oil. You cannot borrow from another, do not wait any longer. I am the only Giver, come to Me now and seek more oil. Be one of the wise virgins, do not be foolish, be ready. waiting with extra oil.

I have been warning for so long, few pay attention. Make sure with me now, I write names in the Book of Life or blot the names out again. I decide who will enter into My Kingdom. Ask Me, I am Holy and I seek holiness, I change not.

How would you know when i will come, it might be your last day today, who knows? I will come when you least expect Me, like a thief and take your life away from you. many will die today, right now this moment, without Me. That's why everyone must always be ready, your time is in my hand. Watch and pray and wait patiently and do not lose heart or hope. I will come, always be ready.

 

[Azakel]

Listen to this girl's testimony (dream she had) of what's about to happen.

Funny, I had a dream that told me something vary different. So who right here if now dream are to be taken has really when it comes to this matter?

 

[FFH]

Prophecy: The end will come - message for 14 July 2009