Rasing the minimum wage could cost jobs

[Revoltingest]

You're actually right, though. Sociology is a branch of psychology, so right from the start it's borderline pseudo-science. It's tough to study human societies, for one, because the person conducting the study is already biased on account of also being human, and two, because experimenting on people is frowned upon for some reason.

It's not exactly a laboratory science. But there have been some fascinating studies done. The Stanford Prison experiment is a good one, and a good example of why it's difficult to study humans.

Even I read psychology works.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

You will notice that I previously had said that the minimum wage should be COLA adjusted. Now the last time the minimum wage was raised was 2009 from $6.55 to $7.25 or almost a 11% raise. Now according to the Social Security Administration the COLA in 2010 was 0, 2011 was 0, 2012 was 3.6, and 2013 was 1.5
So if we had adjusted the minimum wage each year the results would be as follows:
2010 $2.75
2011 $2.75
2012 $7.51
2013 $7.62

Got tired when I was writing and misspoke about everyone getting a living wage if they were single. I retract that statement. I now say that minimum wage jobs are just that, minimum wage. It also depends on what one considers the basics to be in order to have a living wage. One does not need, cable TV, smart phone, car, internet, entertainment devices, etc. One only needs the means to subsist on a nutritious diet

shelter( like an efficiency apartment) and clothing (Goodwill)

You're not the best judge on what others...."need"....:sarcastic

Basic cable @ $45 dollars a months is not out of the realm of the working poor or middle class. Smart phones are dirt cheap for a Walmart special and many people who are seeking other employment or employment at all need a mobile phone. A car is needed depending on where you live, how reliable or unreliable public transportation is and again...can be what you need when seeking a job. Some jobs that one can get are golden opportunities if they have reliable transportation.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Checked out the numbers for my city...

This calculator is excellent in demonstrating the importance of raising mininum wage, but, I disagree that $10.43 translates to a feasible living wage for a single, Newport News resident, unless you wish to scrape by with the bare basics without the means to invest in savings at all, which might be fine for some people, but, for many, this would pose a siginificant hardship.

I find the provided budget for food and medical to be feasible, however, between transportation and other, you're only allotted a budget $402.00.

Contingent upon your form of transportation, this $402.00 hardly accounts for the average car and car insurance payment, let alone cellular bill, internet, and anything else categorized under "other". Not to mention, not all of the apartments in the area have all utiliies included.

You may be paying for your gas and electric as well as your laundry if your apartment doesn't yield a washer and dryer as well.

$774 isn't going to get you the nicest apartment around here, but, it should suffice.

Though there are ways to pinch pennies and make things work, particularly if you're sharing the expenses with a roommate or getting help from Mom and Dad, this is still pretty tough.

And what about revolving debt?

This is a great tool and I appreciate you sharing it! But, I really wasn't lying when I said that my "living wage" as a single woman was more like $26.00 per hour. I had credit cards, utilities and I wanted to enjoy a little bit of what I had earned as well.

I don't think I would have any opposition to your assessment here. I think the calculator is a estimate tool instead of a means of producing definitive numbers. But it does give some decent guesstimates as to where we should be overall.

 

[dawny0826]

I don't think I would have any opposition to your assessment here. I think the calculator is a estimate tool instead of a means of producing definitive numbers. But it does give some decent guesstimates as to where we should be overall.

Agreed. I'm impressed with the calculator - pretty nifty tool.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

That's a stretch. You're not going to see McDonald's using robots to flip your burgers in your lifetime. The jobs that article is talking about (manufacturing and clerical work) already pay substantially more than the minimum wage, so there's no link between job losses resulting from the automation of their work and raising the minimum wage.

Nice try, though. And that was an interesting read, so thanks.

McDonald's New High-Tech Burger Flipper | Techdirt
Lol had to. and there is a McDonalds somewhere that is fully automated except for the stoker and mechanic. But its far from realistic.

Though again I agree with your point that automation has nothing to do with minimum wage right now. It is a seperate factor that actually should increase economic growth as it means fewer individuals can be more productive. It may even be one day in the future there will be NO jobs that require poor. Currently if everyone was poor we would have some major economic problems as we have a plethora of underpaid positions that are in fact DIRE.

 

[esmith]

You're not the best judge on what others...."need"....:sarcastic

Basic cable @ $45 dollars a months is not out of the realm of the working poor or middle class. Smart phones are dirt cheap for a Walmart special and many people who are seeking other employment or employment at all need a mobile phone. A car is needed depending on where you live, how reliable or unreliable public transportation is and again...can be what you need when seeking a job. Some jobs that one can get are golden opportunities if they have reliable transportation.

That it your opinion, but far from what I would consider living within their means. Yes a smart phone may be "dirt cheap" but the cost of the plan for a smart phone is not. I do not know what you pay for a cell phone subscription but it is not cheap. Our phone bill is almost $100 a month for 1 smart phone and 1 "dumb phone" with the minimum voice and data plans possible. A landline with an answering machine would be much cheaper around $10.00 vs $35. A car is not needed if public transportation is available. You seem to be grasping a minor straws in your supposition.

 

[esmith]

It is well known that many people start out at minimum wage and within a short period of time, after they have proven themselves, they advance up the ladder. So, is it there are those who do not advance? If not, why not. Is it due to education, motivation, or some other factor. Maybe instead of looking at advancing wages without a reason shouldn't the emphases be placed on why people can not improved their lot in life. If it is due to motivation I have no sympathy for them, they are beyond help, if it is education maybe the reason why they are uneducated should be examined. Oh and it is not due to money.

 

[Monk Of Reason]

It is well known that many people start out at minimum wage and within a short period of time, after they have proven themselves, they advance up the ladder. So, is it there are those who do not advance? If not, why not. Is it due to education, motivation, or some other factor. Maybe instead of looking at advancing wages without a reason shouldn't the emphases be placed on why people can not improved their lot in life. If it is due to motivation I have no sympathy for them, they are beyond help, if it is education maybe the reason why they are uneducated should be examined. Oh and it is not due to money.

Actually most people who are in a minimum wage job stay at minimum wage. There is usually some small increase so they aren't "literally" at minimum wage but close to it. Even the step up of these jobs (management) usually is still poverty level. Management only makes about 10 dollars an hour at McDonalds for example. That is less than the new desired minimum wage proposed by Obama.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

That it your opinion, but far from what I would consider living within their means.

And that's hardly the point. What you consider "living within your means" is something totally different from what another may consider. Everyone's personal circumstances are different than yours. Here in my part of VA we barely have a functioning bus system, the nearest mass transit subway system into DC is over 30 miles away. We have a rail system that takes you into downtown DC but it cost $13 a day to ride and nearly $200 plus for a monthly pass and it's primarily running during the rush hour.....so having a car here to get to where you need to go is extremely important. In DC a car isn't needed as much because it is the hub for the Subway system and buses run until 12am-1am.

Yes a smart phone may be "dirt cheap" but the cost of the plan for a smart phone is not.

Bull crap. You can either pay as you go or you can find many deals ranging from $10 bucks to $45 bucks a month. Having a cell phone is completely doable...whether you have limited funds or on a fixed income. Walmart phones can cost as little as $20 bucks. A prepaid Net-10 card can cost $45 and that gives you 60 days of service, 600 minutes and 1200 texts.

I do not know what you pay for a cell phone subscription but it is not cheap.

Here's some info....

Net10 Samsung S275G Prepaid Camera Phone: Prepaid Cell Phones : Walmart.com

This is a $20 dollar phone.


NET10 $25 Prepaid Card, 750 min, 30 day monthly plan, talk, text, web/email, 411 (Email Delivery) - Walmart.com

This is a $25 card that gives you 750 minutes of talk time.

So if one is trying to live within their means and are job searching then many of these cellphone deals are perfect for them In fact it is how a lot of job seekers do it. They want to be able to get their messages or call backs from potential employers as soon as possible instead of being tied down to a land line. Others use technology to conduct interviews of various online mediums such as Skype.

Our phone bill is almost $100 a month for 1 smart phone and 1 "dumb phone" with the minimum voice and data plans possible.

You're probably paying too much. Then again I'm not sure what features you have on your plan. I pay for one of my daughter's phone bill. It's a through Cricket. It's a smartphone and the bill is only $55 per month and the service is unlimited. I also pay an additional $10 for insurance. For her, as well as others, having the right phone with the right plan is much better than relying on a land line.

A landline with an answering machine would be much cheaper around $10.00 vs $35.

Maybe in your area. The average phone bill for basic (really) basic service is usually $25-$35 per month.
How Cell Phones Have Changed Your Budget - Forbes

Like I said...If you're out and about and you're job hunting it's best to have your phone with you. In fact...depending on the type of phone you have you can have your contacts... or job contacts on it, a calendar to keep track of upcoming interviews and web capabilities. The web feature comes in handy if you're ever in one of the many free hotspots at coffee shops, malls etc. Overall one can do more and potentially save more money than if they had a land line. A standard land line won't have all these benefits.

A car is not needed if public transportation is available.

In my area, as I've said above, public transportation isn't ideal. In fact, where I work there is no public transportation. It simply does not go in that direction. There are many cases where a car is "needed"....I'm not saying everyone needs a car when job searching. But I'm not naive to assume it's never needed at all.

You seem to be grasping a minor straws in your supposition.

Hardly. I work with young adults and older adults daily and many of the things you say they don't "need" they actually do. When, where and how you grew up is so yesteryear. This generation is more on the go than yours and many of these tools help keep them connected...especially when searching for employment....

 

[Dirty Penguin]

It is well known that many people start out at minimum wage and within a short period of time, after they have proven themselves, they advance up the ladder. So, is it there are those who do not advance? If not, why not. Is it due to education, motivation, or some other factor. Maybe instead of looking at advancing wages without a reason shouldn't the emphases be placed on why people can not improved their lot in life. If it is due to motivation I have no sympathy for them, they are beyond help, if it is education maybe the reason why they are uneducated should be examined. Oh and it is not due to money.

Please stop....I just listed a bunch of articles to the contrary.....A lot of people are entering the workforce with 2 and 4 year degrees. And others are going to vocational school to be trained in the relevant fields that are hiring. Even a lot of college graduates are going back to school. Some back to college and others going the vocational school route with those who are attending who only have a high school diploma or GED.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

Actually most people who are in a minimum wage job stay at minimum wage. There is usually some small increase so they aren't "literally" at minimum wage but close to it. Even the step up of these jobs (management) usually is still poverty level. Management only makes about 10 dollars an hour at McDonalds for example. That is less than the new desired minimum wage proposed by Obama.

Yep...and both of those are less than what it would be if it had kept up with inflation.

Amount With Inflation | Raise The Minimum Wage

The minimum wage of $1.60 an hour in 1968 would be $10.56 today when adjusted for inflation

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

No, I don't see why it would make it hard to start a new business. The province I live in has the highest proportion of small business owners in the entire country. What that looks like on the ground is that when you go into a book store or a coffee shop, the person who is serving you is often the owner of the store. THAT is a small "start-up" business. Mom and pop stuff. Do they employ people? Sure they do, if they need to, but an extra buck or two per hour is not going to make or break them because they already do most of the labour themselves.

I think commercial real estate prices are a bigger problem for small businesses than labour. When I was doing market research when I was considering opening a music store, the price of commercial real estate rental was what stopped me - not the price of labour. I knew that while I could easily adjust my staffing levels very quickly to instantly adapt to upturns and downturns in business, rent is rent. The only people making serious money in retail in my area were the landlords.

My parents' business was home-based. They were literally a "Mom & Pop" - it was just my Mom and Dad. They didn't have any other employees because City zoning by-laws required that all of the people working in a "home occupation" had to be residents of the home.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Please stop....I just listed a bunch of articles to the contrary.....A lot of people are entering the workforce with 2 and 4 year degrees. And others are going to vocational school to be trained in the relevant fields that are hiring. Even a lot of college graduates are going back to school. Some back to college and others going the vocational school route with those who are attending who only have a high school diploma or GED.

When my great-grandfather graduated with a bachelor's degree in civil engineering, his first job right out of school was City Engineer for a small city. He was literally in charge of all of the engineering works for a city without any prior work experience whatsoever.

When I graduated with a bachelor's degree in civil engineering, not only would most employers ask for something like 10-20 years' experience to get a position like he had, it would actually be illegal to do the job without at least four years of work experience after graduation.

This trend toward higher and higher standards for job qualifications isn't a new thing.

 

[Alceste]

It is well known that many people start out at minimum wage and within a short period of time, after they have proven themselves, they advance up the ladder. So, is it there are those who do not advance? If not, why not. Is it due to education, motivation, or some other factor. Maybe instead of looking at advancing wages without a reason shouldn't the emphases be placed on why people can not improved their lot in life. If it is due to motivation I have no sympathy for them, they are beyond help, if it is education maybe the reason why they are uneducated should be examined. Oh and it is not due to money.

The majority of people in the US who require government assistance to buy food are workers with a college education. (See link in previous post). In light of that fact, does your point still stand?

 

[Alceste]

My parents' business was home-based. They were literally a "Mom & Pop" - it was just my Mom and Dad. They didn't have any other employees because City zoning by-laws required that all of the people working in a "home occupation" had to be residents of the home.

Yeah, my Dad's business was sometimes just my Dad, working in the basement. The best years, he employed four or five other people and rented an office. He hated laying them off when profits were down, but it was worse for him than for them. They were skilled workers and had no problem finding other jobs.

 

[esmith]

And that's hardly the point. What you consider "living within your means" is something totally different from what another may consider. Everyone's personal circumstances are different than yours. Here in my part of VA we barely have a functioning bus system, the nearest mass transit subway system into DC is over 30 miles away. We have a rail system that takes you into downtown DC but it cost $13 a day to ride and nearly $200 plus for a monthly pass and it's primarily running during the rush hour.....so having a car here to get to where you need to go is extremely important. In DC a car isn't needed as much because it is the hub for the Subway system and buses run until 12am-1am.

So, you are using your areas specific situation to justify your requirement for a car. Not valid. There is something called relocating. So, you think you can operate a car on $200 a month? You are going to spend more than that on fuel, $200 only gets you 1120 miles (@20mpg) or 56 miles a day (based on 5 days a week for 4 weeks) and don't tell me one wouldn't put more miles than that on a car. The cheapest liability insurance in VA is around $25 a month. Maintenance is going to run about $10 a month for just basic maintenance. No, a car is not a viable option for someone working at minimum wage.

Bull crap. You can either pay as you go or you can find many deals ranging from $10 bucks to $45 bucks a month. Having a cell phone is completely doable...whether you have limited funds or on a fixed income. Walmart phones can cost as little as $20 bucks. A prepaid Net-10 card can cost $45 and that gives you 60 days of service, 600 minutes and 1200 texts. https://www.net10.com/direct/ValuePlansSo

Don't know where you are getting your information from, but I'm seeing around $45 a month for what you were describing https://www.net10.com/direct/ValuePlans
went to your Wal-mart link and it does give you 750 min (25 min a day) for $25.00. So I agree that this type of plan would be viable.

if one is trying to live within their means and are job searching then many of these cellphone deals are perfect for them In fact it is how a lot of job seekers do it. They want to be able to get their messages or call backs from potential employers as soon as possible instead of being tied down to a land line. Others use technology to conduct interviews of various online mediums such as Skype.

I think you are confusing higher paying employment opportunities with minimum wage employment. Do, you really think that a employer is going to the trouble of conducting interviews via the internet for a minimum wage job? Get real. A minimum wage job usually is via face to face contact directly through a employer or through a employment agency.

You're probably paying too much. Then again I'm not sure what features you have on your plan. I pay for one of my daughter's phone bill. It's a through Cricket. It's a smartphone and the bill is only $55 per month and the service is unlimited. I also pay an additional $10 for insurance. For her, as well as others, having the right phone with the right plan is much better than relying on a land line.

And you are assuming you know what I should be paying for a cell phone plan? Typical liberal progressive idea...... "I know what's right for everyone." Do you think that I am not smart enough to do research and find out what is best for myself and my wife?

Like I said...If you're out and about and you're job hunting it's best to have your phone with you. In fact...depending on the type of phone you have you can have your contacts... or job contacts on it, a calendar to keep track of upcoming interviews and web capabilities. The web feature comes in handy if you're ever in one of the many free hotspots at coffee shops, malls etc. Overall one can do more and potentially save more money than if they had a land line. A standard land line won't have all these benefits.

We are talking about minimum wage jobs here, not the well paying jobs.

In my area, as I've said above, public transportation isn't ideal. In fact, where I work there is no public transportation. It simply does not go in that direction. There are many cases where a car is "needed"....I'm not saying everyone needs a car when job searching. But I'm not naive to assume it's never needed at all.

Again circumstance dictate everyone's situation. However, if I had to take a minimum wage job I sure would find a place to live that had public transportation, be able to walk or ride a bike. A car would be the last option.

Hardly. I work with young adults and older adults daily and many of the things you say they don't "need" they actually do. When, where and how you grew up is so yesteryear. This generation is more on the go than yours and many of these tools help keep them connected...especially when searching for employment....

Yeah the I want it all and I want it now generation. Yes, there are those out there that know what they really need and what would be nice to have. You say that the generation now is more on the go than mine and need to be connected. No, that's what they are being indoctrinated by those businesses that foster that lifestyle on them. If you can't afford it, don't expect us, the older generation, to bale them out when they need it. We are going to be gone and they had better hope they understand that. At the rate this country is going broke they are going to have to count on what they saved for their retirement years because we, the old generation, and the government have spent it.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

When my great-grandfather graduated with a bachelor's degree in civil engineering, his first job right out of school was City Engineer for a small city. He was literally in charge of all of the engineering works for a city without any prior work experience whatsoever.

When I graduated with a bachelor's degree in civil engineering, not only would most employers ask for something like 10-20 years' experience to get a position like he had, it would actually be illegal to do the job without at least four years of work experience after graduation.

This trend toward higher and higher standards for job qualifications isn't a new thing.

Oh, I totally agree. It was the same for me many years ago when I got into computers. My first job was help desk and I didn't have to have much experience. Much of it was on the job training. When I began to go into the field and work on desktops, printers etc... I needed to get certified. When I knew I would be working on servers I needed to go get certified. When I knew I was going to start working on databases I had to go get certified. And it hasn't stopped.....but I think my main point was that this notion that people aren't trying to better themselves is lubricious. I fully admit that there are many that are complacent but I submit that complacence resides at every rung of the opportunity ladder. I just don't want to see people side step the debate about the need to raise the minimum wage with an age old talking point about 'lazy people not wanting to better themselves'......

 

[Dirty Penguin]

So, you are using your areas specific situation to justify your requirement for a car. Not valid.

Yes and no. My example rest on the fact that DC, much of MD and VA have a decent connection to the subway and commuter rail...but the fact is..this isn't the case for all of MD and VA on a whole. This is the same around the country. The further out from the city (major artery) you go the less reliable transportation is so the need for a car becomes all too real.

There is something called relocating.

That's the conundrum. Not everyone can afford to move. But depending on where you live..you might be able to justify traveling (whether by bus, subway, commuter rail or car) to your job that is 50 plus miles away.

So, you think you can operate a car on $200 a month?

It all depends.

You are going to spend more than that on fuel, $200 only gets you 1120 miles (@20mpg) or 56 miles a day (based on 5 days a week for 4 weeks) and don't tell me one wouldn't put more miles than that on a car. The cheapest liability insurance in VA is around $25 a month. Maintenance is going to run about $10 a month for just basic maintenance. No, a car is not a viable option for someone working at minimum wage.

Yet I know plenty of people working minimum wage jobs with an old rust bucket of a car, know handy man mechanics, have crappy liability insurance....who travel about 25 to 35 miles to get to their jobs because there is no reliable public transportation to get them there.

Don't know where you are getting your information from, but I'm seeing around $45 a month for what you were describing https://www.net10.com/direct/ValuePlans
went to your Wal-mart link and it does give you 750 min (25 min a day) for $25.00. So I agree that this type of plan would be viable.

I got it from Walmart. I gave you the links so you wouldn't have to duplicate my efforts. You can get a dirt cheap phone and service with no contract. Pay as you go. Many job seekers are doing this.

I think you are confusing higher paying employment opportunities with minimum wage employment. Do, you really think that a employer is going to the trouble of conducting interviews via the internet for a minimum wage job? Get real. A minimum wage job usually is via face to face contact directly through a employer or through a employment agency.

All I was getting at was that there is a "need" for various types of technologies. No, a person seeking a minimum wage job doesn't need skype but will need a reliable phone. Many of the people seeking minimum wage employment may be sharing a house or living at home but is actively on the go job hunting and this is why I said a cellphone over a land line is more what they need.

And you are assuming you know what I should be paying for a cell phone plan? Typical liberal progressive idea...... "I know what's right for everyone." Do you think that I am not smart enough to do research and find out what is best for myself and my wife?

Where did all this come from? What did I say to deserve all this? All I said was "you're probably paying too much..." AND I followed that up with "Then again I'm not sure what features you have on your plan."...... Sheeesh man, I meant no harm in it...:help:

Again circumstance dictate everyone's situation. However, if I had to take a minimum wage job I sure would find a place to live that had public transportation, be able to walk or ride a bike. A car would be the last option.

Sure you would..."In hindsight"..... but not many people have that luxury. But if you're living with others or at home you tend to want to do exactly that. If however you discover the opportunities for a job close to where you live aren't an option you're going to widen your net. Many, even minimum wage job seekers, tend to widen their nets just to see what is out there.

Yeah the I want it all and I want it now generation. Yes, there are those out there that know what they really need and what would be nice to have. You say that the generation now is more on the go than mine and need to be connected. No, that's what they are being indoctrinated by those businesses that foster that lifestyle on them.

I was simply stating that your generation is different. This generation is what it is. Like it or not. The fact remains that technology has made it easier for us to carry our phones, personal assistance, answering service and internet ready with us all in one device at a lower cost than simply having a land line and being dependent on that.

If you can't afford it, don't expect us, the older generation, to bale them out when they need it.

What are you talking about. I thought we were simply discussing the need for something and not bailouts.

 

[esmith]

Yes and no. My example rest on the fact that DC, much of MD and VA have a decent connection to the subway and commuter rail...but the fact is..this isn't the case for all of MD and VA on a whole. This is the same around the country. The further out from the city (major artery) you go the less reliable transportation is so the need for a car becomes all too real. That's the conundrum. Not everyone can afford to move. But depending on where you live..you might be able to justify traveling (whether by bus, subway, commuter rail or car) to your job that is 50 plus miles away. It all depends. Yet I know plenty of people working minimum wage jobs with an old rust bucket of a car, know handy man mechanics, have crappy liability....who travel about 25 to 35 miles to get to their jobs because there is no reliable public transportation to get them there.

If they are traveling 50 to 70 miles (round trip) 5 days a week 4 weeks a month just the cost of fuel for a car that gets on average (1980-2004) around 25mpg would would use about $170 a month (@ $3.55 per gal) just to drive to and from work. Now we know that will not be all the driving a month they will do since you indicate that this "new generation is on the go". So let say they put another 500 miles (low estimate) a month for being "on the go". That equates to another $71.00 or a total of $241 for fuel, now add liability insurance which averages between $40-$60 a month. Now our car is costing us $291 (used $50 for insurance) however forgot maintenance (not everyone knows a shade-tree mechanic) say $9 a month for a total low ball estimate of $300 a month. Let say they raise minimum wage to $10/hr and you are lucky enough to get a 40hr per week job. Gross income is $1600 a month, minus $122 FICA and SS, fed income tax $125, state (VA) $57. Monthly take home pay is $1296; subtract $300 for a car. This leaves $996 a month for food clothing and shelter, oh forgot you cell phone bill, cable bill, internet bill, and entertainment (you did say this was a on the go, connected generation). Think you can afford a car now. of course this is assuming you already owned it and didn't have to buy one which would add more to the cost.

All I was getting at was that there is a "need" for various types of technologies. No, a person seeking a minimum wage job doesn't need skype but will need a reliable phone. Many of the people seeking minimum wage employment may be sharing a house or living at home but is actively on the go job hunting and this is why I said a cellphone over a land line is more what they need.

OK, I'll give you that one. A cell phone is not that expensive, as long as they do not abuse it .

Where did all this come from? What did I say to deserve all this? All I said was "you're probably paying too much..." AND I followed that up with "Then again I'm not sure what features you have on your plan."...... Sheeesh man, I meant no harm in it...:help:

Just took offense at the comment. No one likes to be questioned about what they spend their income on. How, would you have felt if I had commented on you paying for your daughters cell phone and why you are doing it? See it is not my business to question why you are doing something with your own income. I would expect the same courtesy.

Sure you would..."In hindsight"..... but not many people have that luxury. But if you're living with others or at home you tend to want to do exactly that. If however you discover the opportunities for a job close to where you live aren't an option you're going to widen your net. Many, even minimum wage job seekers, tend to widen their nets just to see what is out there.

We are talking about relocating to a location to accept a position. It used to be fairly simple to find someone to share rent within easy commuting distance of ones work. I do not know what the situation is now. I look at it this way I remember when I graduated from high school and got a job. My father allowed me to live with them until I got on my feet; however he expected me to pay room and board. The job didn't pan out so I joined the service; probably would have been drafted if I hadn't. After 4 years I got out with almost next to nothing in a bank account (talk about poor pay $240 a month in 1965) I was willing to take any job anywhere drove quite a few miles looking for a job. The point is I was willing to do almost anything and live anywhere. Are today's generation willing to do that?

I was simply stating that your generation is different. This generation is what it is. Like it or not. The fact remains that technology has made it easier for us to carry our phones, personal assistance, answering service and internet ready with us all in one device at a lower cost than simply having a land line and being dependent on that.

Maybe that is the trouble. They have been conditioned by the constant barrage of media to think that is what they have to have. Take a look at those reality shows where they think they can become the next super star. Yeah I dreamed I could be someone that I wasn't but I knew in my heart that I didn't have the physical talent or brains to really make it. I knew I had to settle for just being the average blue collar worker; but I also knew that I had to get vocational training to make it. Thankfully the service provided me with an excellent vocational skills and a sense of responsibilities to myself and others and a drive to make the best of it that I could. In truth I don't think the current generation is going to live as well as my generation and their children are going to be even worse off unless the direction this country is headed is changed.

 

[Dirty Penguin]

If they are traveling 50 to 70 miles (round trip) 5 days a week 4 weeks a month just the cost of fuel for a car that gets on average (1980-2004) around 25mpg would would use about $170 a month (@ $3.55 per gal) just to drive to and from work. Now we know that will not be all the driving a month they will do since you indicate that this "new generation is on the go". So let say they put another 500 miles (low estimate) a month for being "on the go". That equates to another $71.00 or a total of $241 for fuel, now add liability insurance which averages between $40-$60 a month. Now our car is costing us $291 (used $50 for insurance) however forgot maintenance (not everyone knows a shade-tree mechanic) say $9 a month for a total low ball estimate of $300 a month. Let say they raise minimum wage to $10/hr and you are lucky enough to get a 40hr per week job. Gross income is $1600 a month, minus $122 FICA and SS, fed income tax $125, state (VA) $57. Monthly take home pay is $1296; subtract $300 for a car. This leaves $996 a month for food clothing and shelter, oh forgot you cell phone bill, cable bill, internet bill, and entertainment (you did say this was a on the go, connected generation). Think you can afford a car now. of course this is assuming you already owned it and didn't have to buy one which would add more to the cost.

Like I said. I know plenty in this situation. I'm not saying owning a car is conducive for everyone but I work with plenty of young adults who own a POS car and either work on them or know someone that works on them. I know a couple that don't simply fill up the tank and go...and others that have friends chip in here and there. All I was saying was that there are times in certain situation where owning a car is a must because other transportation isn't present or reliable.

OK, I'll give you that one. A cell phone is not that expensive, as long as they do not abuse it .

I agree with you here. If one is using it in moderation for specific purposes until they are able to make more money to upgrade then the phone is beneficial.

Just took offense at the comment. No one likes to be questioned about what they spend their income on. How, would you have felt if I had commented on you paying for your daughters cell phone and why you are doing it? See it is not my business to question why you are doing something with your own income. I would expect the same courtesy.

I don't get offended easily. Especially at such a question as to why I pay for my daughters cellphone.

We are talking about relocating to a location to accept a position. It used to be fairly simple to find someone to share rent within easy commuting distance of ones work. I do not know what the situation is now.

It's not as easy these days. It might be the reason they're staying at home longer rather than moving out.

I look at it this way I remember when I graduated from high school and got a job. My father allowed me to live with them until I got on my feet; however he expected me to pay room and board. The job didn't pan out so I joined the service; probably would have been drafted if I hadn't. After 4 years I got out with almost next to nothing in a bank account (talk about poor pay $240 a month in 1965) I was willing to take any job anywhere drove quite a few miles looking for a job. The point is I was willing to do almost anything and live anywhere. Are today's generation willing to do that?

Today's generation are definately out job hunting. Now I will full admit that there are a bunch that live off their parents and their parents completely allow it. I disagree with this course of action.

Maybe that is the trouble. They have been conditioned by the constant barrage of media to think that is what they have to have. Take a look at those reality shows where they think they can become the next super star.

I can't argue with that. If you notice, the one phone I linked to from Walmart was a flip phone. Nothing special on it. It was basic and what a person could use until they made more money and could afford a better phone. But I agree with you about much of the conditioning.

I think one thing we can agree on is that hard work and perseverance is a must have quality. No matter how old or what generation....you have to do what you can to the best of your ability to be able to support yourself and your family and this definitely means that people have to further their education if at all possible in order to better their chances of being successful.