Rasmus Paludan, Turkey and Sweden

[Estro Felino]

With all due respect...I believe this will make the entry of Turkey into the European Union more and more difficult. And not doable. Juridically, politically and economically, above all.

I wonder why Turkey wants to be a member of the EU, in the first place.

 

[Nimos]

With all due respect...I believe this will make the entry of Turkey into the European Union more and more difficult. And not doable. Juridically, politically and economically, above all.

I wonder why Turkey wants to be a member of the EU, in the first place.

The guy is a complete idiot and is taken way too seriously, he got 15 votes or something in Sweden. He is Danish with a double passport or citizenship in both Denmark and Sweden which is why he is fooling around in Sweden at the moment, because the Danes didn't like him, so he tried his luck in Sweden instead.

He is nothing but an individual that wants attention, he knows nothing about what he is talking about. Said in another way he is a complete moron. The best way to deal with him is to just ignore him.

 

[Estro Felino]

The guy is a complete idiot and is taken way too seriously, he got 15 votes or something in Sweden. He is Danish with a double passport or citizenship in both Denmark and Sweden which is why he is fooling around in Sweden at the moment, because the Danes didn't like him, so he tried his luck in Sweden instead.

He is nothing but an individual that wants attention, he knows nothing about what he is talking about. Said in another way he is a complete moron. The best way to deal with him is to just ignore him.

That's the point. Why is the Swedish government so obsessed with him?
He is just doing something that falls within his freedom of speech.
But why do people even care?

 

[Nimos]

That's the point. Why is the Swedish government so obsessed with him?
He is just doing something that falls within his freedom of speech.
But why do people even care?

The Swedish government is not obsessed with him, but in the Scandinavian countries we have freedom of speech and therefore he is allowed to do these things, whether other people agree with him or not and he follows the rules required.

People might care because they think that this is how Scandinavians think (Sweden in this case). And because they present him as someone important, but the fact is that 99.5% of Swedes and Danes think he is a moron and doesn't represent anything, except a few racist people that also have an issue with Islam. But him, burning some Qurans gets him a lot of easy attention which is exactly what he is looking for as it pisses off the Muslims, if he burned a bible to **** off Christians, I'm not even sure he would get in the news, as no one would care. But he can get the attention of the Muslims which is why he does it, I highly doubt that he has any clue what the Quran or religion, in general, is about at all.

 

[Estro Felino]

The Swedish government is not obsessed with him, but in the Scandinavian countries we have freedom of speech and therefore he is allowed to do these things, whether other people agree with him or not and he follows the rules required.

People might care because they think that this is how Scandinavians think (Sweden in this case). And because they present him as someone important, but the fact is that 99.5% of Swedes and Danes think he is a moron and doesn't represent anything, except a few racist people that also have an issue with Islam. But him, burning some Qurans gets him a lot of easy attention which is exactly what he is looking for as it pisses off the Muslims, if he burned a bible to **** off Christians, I'm not even sure he would get in the news, as no one would care. But he can get the attention of the Muslims which is why he does it, I highly doubt that he has any clue what the Quran or religion, in general, is about at all.

That's the point, indeed.
He is also free to set hundreds of Bibles on fire. That falls within his freedom of speech.

I don't think he is a moron. I think he is challenging the Swedish Government, asking him to defend his freedom of speech against the protesters who would like to gag him.
Why doesn't he do that in Italy? Because the Italian Government would defend him. It's useless.

 

[Nimos]

That's the point, indeed.
He is also free to set hundreds of Bibles on fire. That falls within his freedom of speech.

I don't think he is a moron. I think he is challenging the Swedish Government, asking him to defend his freedom of speech against the protesters who would like to gag him.
Why doesn't he do that in Italy? Because the Italian Government would defend him. It's useless.

It depends on the country obviously.

And in Scandinavia, we value freedom of speech. But freedom of speech also comes with a sense of responsibility. If he had an actual message or a deeper meaning with it, fair enough. But he doesn't, honestly, I don't think he cares what thing he stirs up. If the Muslims didn't care, he would probably have a go at black people, gay people or whoever he thinks will give him the attention that he wants.

He is not challenging anyone in Scandinavia, because everyone here is well aware of having the right to freedom of speech. If he did it in Italy if that is not allowed then I agree that he would be challenging their government.

 

[Estro Felino]

He is not challenging anyone in Scandinavia, because everyone here is well aware of having the right to freedom of speech. If he did it in Italy if that is not allowed then I agree that he would be challenging their government.

Here it is allowed. If you own a book, and set your own book on fire, the Government couldn't care less.
The State here would defend you, if someone protested against you.

 

[Nimos]

Here it is allowed. If you own a book, and set your own book on fire, the Government couldn't care less.
The State here would defend you, if someone protested against you.

Are you talking about Sweden or Italy now?

In either case, why do you think it would challenge these governments then? Because it is a human right to get protection if your life is in danger, if the police believe that a protest could cause issues then they will show up.

So not really sure what you mean?

 

[Estro Felino]

Are you talking about Sweden or Italy now?

In either case, why do you think it would challenge these governments then? Because it is a human right to get protection if your life is in danger, if the police believe that a protest could cause issues then they will show up.

So not really sure what you mean?

I was speaking of my country, Italy.
I don't know much about Swedish law, so I wouldn't know about Sweden

By the way, I am not understanding your last observation either.
My point is: what's wrong with what he does?
The Swedish Government should protect him.

 

[Nimos]

I was speaking of my country, Italy.
I don't know much about Swedish law, so I wouldn't know about Sweden

By the way, I am not understanding your last observation either.
My point is: what's wrong with what he does?
The Swedish Government should protect him.

My point is, that freedom of speech comes with a sense of responsibility. Meaning that in theory, I could "exploit" it to simply have a go at someone, because I wanted to be an idiot, let's say to have a go at the Muslims. Doing that, I know that my government have to protect me.

So when I say that freedom of speech comes with a sense of responsibility, means that people should also be somewhat certain that they actually have a case or valid argument. And Sweden does have a lot of issues with their Muslim community and I'm not even sure if these are actual Muslims or simply people doing crimes who happen to be of a foreign ethnicity, but is the best option or even to address the issue, by burning the Quran? What exactly is that going to solve? Because I don't think the problems Sweden is facing are particularly motivated by religion as much as cultural differences, how they have managed these people from a political point of view etc.

But a person like Rasmus who seek attention can very easily stir things up and draw attention by doing what he is. This doesn't only cause a lot of internal conflicts, but also external ones like with Turkey. And my guess is that most of the people in Sweden that is causing issues, don't even come from Turkey in the first place, he just chose to do it in front of their embassy because he probably thought with the whole NATO thing that he could get some extra attention.

That is the problem with freedom of speech, that it also allows people like him to exploit it. Obviously, that is simply something one has to accept because freedom of speech is more important than just having to ignore someone like that.

 

[Estro Felino]

My point is, that freedom of speech comes with a sense of responsibility. Meaning that in theory, I could "exploit" it to simply have a go at someone, because I wanted to be an idiot, let's say to have a go at the Muslims. Doing that, I know that my government have to protect me.

So when I say that freedom of speech comes with a sense of responsibility, means that people should also be somewhat certain that they actually have a case or valid argument. And Sweden does have a lot of issues with their Muslim community and I'm not even sure if these are actual Muslims or simply people doing crimes who happen to be of a foreign ethnicity, but is the best option or even to address the issue, by burning the Quran? What exactly is that going to solve? Because I don't think the problems Sweden is facing are particularly motivated by religion as much as cultural differences, how they have managed these people from a political point of view etc.

But a person like Rasmus who seek attention can very easily stir things up and draw attention by doing what he is. This doesn't only cause a lot of internal conflicts, but also external ones like with Turkey. And my guess is that most of the people in Sweden that is causing issues, don't even come from Turkey in the first place, he just chose to do it in front of their embassy because he probably thought with the whole NATO thing that he could get some extra attention.

That is the problem with freedom of speech, that it also allows people like him to exploit it. Obviously, that is simply something one has to accept because freedom of speech is more important than just having to ignore someone like that.

It deals with something political, and Paludan is a politician.
Turkey is in the NATO but Turkey cannot prevent Sweden from entering the NATO because all NATO members agree on its entry. Above all, the founders of the NATO.
Not to mention that Turkey has always asked to join the EU. I don't understand why they did, honestly.
I don't see a political compatibility with the values of the EU.

 

[Stevicus]

It deals with something political, and Paludan is a politician.
Turkey is in the NATO but Turkey cannot prevent Sweden from entering the NATO because all NATO members agree on its entry. Above all, the founders of the NATO.
Not to mention that Turkey has always asked to join the EU. I don't understand why they did, honestly.
I don't see a political compatibility with the values of the EU.

Apparently Turkey is vetoing the entry of Sweden and Finland into NATO: Explainer: Why is Turkey blocking Sweden and Finland NATO membership? | Reuters

All NATO members must agree unanimously, and Turkey is holding out.

I had never heard of this guy Paludan before. We have right-wingers who burn Qurans here in America, too. Muslims have burned the U.S. flag before, so Americans retaliated by burning their Quran. It's kind of silly in a way, not just the burning, but the response as well. All it means is that both sides know how to taunt the other.

 

[Lyndon]

Turkey can prevent Sweden from joining NATO, it takes a unanimous vote of all NATO members for a country to join, therein lies the problem

 

[Estro Felino]

Apparently Turkey is vetoing the entry of Sweden and Finland into NATO: Explainer: Why is Turkey blocking Sweden and Finland NATO membership? | Reuters

All NATO members must agree unanimously, and Turkey is holding out.

I had never heard of this guy Paludan before. We have right-wingers who burn Qurans here in America, too. Muslims have burned the U.S. flag before, so Americans retaliated by burning their Quran. It's kind of silly in a way, not just the burning, but the response as well. All it means is that both sides know how to taunt the other.

When Turkey joined the NATO, it was much more secular and well-disposed to cooperate with the other Western countries.
But...apparently there is a new drift that shows that they are more and more distant from the interests of the West and their secular vision of politics.
So ... I think Turkey should think about it...whether it wants to stay in the NATO or not.

 

[Estro Felino]

Turkey can prevent Sweden from joining NATO, it takes a unanimous vote of all NATO members for a country to join, therein lies the problem

Surely...but with these pretenses that offend European secularism...there may be other countries that want to get out of the NATO.
To show their solidarity to Sweden and Finland.

 

[Stevicus]

When Turkey joined the NATO, it was much more secular and well-disposed to cooperate with the other Western countries.
But...apparently there is a new drift that shows that they are more and more distant from the interests of the West and their secular vision of politics.
So ... I think Turkey should think about it...whether it wants to stay in the NATO or not.

The Reuters article I linked indicated that there's no provision or formal process in place for expelling a member of NATO. I don't know if Turkey has any desire to withdraw from NATO at this point. If they did, I would think they would have done so by now.

 

[Estro Felino]

The Reuters article I linked indicated that there's no provision or formal process in place for expelling a member of NATO. I don't know if Turkey has any desire to withdraw from NATO at this point. If they did, I would think they would have done so by now.

Honestly...do you think that Turkey's geopolitical interests are compatible with the West?
Since the Cyprus question and the Syrian question show otherwise?

 

[Stevicus]

Honestly...do you think that Turkey's geopolitical interests are compatible with the West?
Since the Cyprus question and the Syrian question show otherwise?

At this point, probably not. The main reason for bringing Turkey into the fold was due to their strategic position. As far back as the Crimean War, Turkey has figured prominently in Western geopolitical aspirations. The Russians have wanted Constantinople back for Orthodoxy for over 500 years, yet for whatever reason, the West has been afraid of that happening.

 

[Revoltingest]

I wonder why Turkey wants to be a member of the EU, in the first place.

Hint:
It borders Georgia.
Crimea & Ukraine are right across the Black Sea.
Why the Black Sea could emerge as the world’s next great energy battleground

 

[Estro Felino]

At this point, probably not. The main reason for bringing Turkey into the fold was due to their strategic position. As far back as the Crimean War, Turkey has figured prominently in Western geopolitical aspirations. The Russians have wanted Constantinople back for Orthodoxy for over 500 years, yet for whatever reason, the West has been afraid of that happening.

It's a fact that when Turkey co-founded the NATO, it was a very secular nation that has wanted to cooperate to a new geopolitical order in the Mediterranean.
What happened? The Wahabis with their oil billions funded fundamentalism, radicalism and anti-secularism in Turkey.
The drift is scary...just let me know that Erdogan is called the Sultan or The Caliph in Italy.
Nobody sees him as a secular reassuring leader. That president terrorizes me, honestly.
I am afraid the Turks are still the Ottomans of the 17th century.