Reality is a Wavefunction

[Polymath257]

Here is an explanation I'd like to introduce that clarifies the whole observation dilemma: https://www.quora.com/What-does-it-mean-to-say-a-wave-function-collapses

And I'll point to an article yours refers to:

Quantum decoherence - Wikipedia

Once again, the point is that consciousness isn't required for wave function collapse. Instead, the interaction with *any* complex environment does the collapse.

This, by the way, is why it is so hard to make quantum computers. There is almost always aspects of an environment that will collapse a wave function. So those states desired for quantum computers are incredibly delicate.

 

[Polymath257]

To say one knows enough QM is an appeal to authority since only those who have experience with the supernatural and who are intelligent can testify to the veracity of QM as a science having supernatural implications that are not mainstream or popular. Since the science underlies the explanation.

Except that there is no science of the supernatural (almost by definition of the term supernatural). Quantum Mechanics simply does not address any issues of a supernatural, whether the mystics think it does or not.

Once again, there is a tremendous amount of bad woo versions of QM out there. Many people have piled on trying to get money by publishing bad interpretations of QM simply because few people understand QM well enough to point out the flaws in their explanations.

 

[sayak83]

To say one knows enough QM is an appeal to authority since only those who have experience with the supernatural and who are intelligent can testify to the veracity of QM as a science having supernatural implications that are not mainstream or popular. Since the science underlies the explanation.

Have you taken a degree in the physics of QM? Or at least have you read an undergraduate level textbook on QM?

Books and articles on pop-sci are not science books. Their goal is to sell copies, and hence those books often go for glitter and gimmick that catches the public imagination. They do not provide a reliable understanding of the science unfortunately (with some exceptions).

 

[Ostronomos]

Except that there is no science of the supernatural (almost by definition of the term supernatural). Quantum Mechanics simply does not address any issues of a supernatural, whether the mystics think it does or not.

Once again, there is a tremendous amount of bad woo versions of QM out there. Many people have piled on trying to get money by publishing bad interpretations of QM simply because few people understand QM well enough to point out the flaws in their explanations.

I would imagine that if what is known as "supernatural" could be addressed it would be addressed by Quantum Mechanics. Since Quantum Mechanics uncannily involves reality at the microscopic level, it would exonerate all preconceptions of the macroscopic, Classical world. The "supernatural" is really accounted for by scientific realism if it qualifies as real which includes religious experiences.

 

[sayak83]

I would imagine that if what is known as "supernatural" could be addressed it would be addressed by Quantum Mechanics. Since Quantum Mechanics uncannily involves reality at the microscopic level, it would exonerate all preconceptions of the macroscopic, Classical world. The "supernatural" is really accounted for by scientific realism if it qualifies as real which includes religious experiences.

Look. QM is not some mysterious stuff. Its a physical and mathematical theory that describes and predicts the behavior at the microscopic realm. The microscopic realm behaves very differently than what we are used to, which makes the physics nonintuitive. But why would we expect the world at a smaller scale to behave the same way as it does in ours?

 

[Polymath257]

I would imagine that if what is known as "supernatural" could be addressed it would be addressed by Quantum Mechanics. Since Quantum Mechanics uncannily involves reality at the microscopic level, it would exonerate all preconceptions of the macroscopic, Classical world. The "supernatural" is really accounted for by scientific realism if it qualifies as real which includes religious experiences.

And, in fact, QM has *nothing* to do with any supernatural. I agree that it has priority over the classical descriptions, and that classical intuitions are wrong. But it doesn't support what you seem to think it does.

 

[Ostronomos]

Look. QM is not some mysterious stuff. Its a physical and mathematical theory that describes and predicts the behavior at the microscopic realm. The microscopic realm behaves very differently than what we are used to, which makes the physics nonintuitive. But why would we expect the world at a smaller scale to behave the same way as it does in ours?

I would think that what applies to the microscopic realm may also apply to the macroscopic. We are simply given clues as to how reality operates at the ultimate level by studying QM. I believe in macro-Quantum effects. The mystery is inherent in the non-intuitiveness. I grant that it is explainable. However, it has some far-fetched implications.

 

[Thief]

The particle properties such as position and momentum have no existence until they are observed.

does a tree falling in the forest make a sound?

 

[Polymath257]

I would think that what applies to the microscopic realm may also apply to the macroscopic. We are simply given clues as to how reality operates at the ultimate level by studying QM. I believe in macro-Quantum effects. The mystery is inherent in the non-intuitiveness. I grant that it is explainable. However, it has some far-fetched implications.

Except for the simple fact that Planck's constant is small. it is the basic constant that mediates the extent of quantum effects.

 

[Ostronomos]

And, in fact, QM has *nothing* to do with any supernatural. I agree that it has priority over the classical descriptions, and that classical intuitions are wrong. But it doesn't support what you seem to think it does.

The fact that initial conditions only determine the probabilities of measurements and not the actual measurements themselves, and that the wavefunction is sensitive to interaction, would suggest that reality can conform to mind. Since conditions are openly malleable to adjustment by the act of experimentation.

 

[Ostronomos]

does a tree falling in the forest make a sound?

Yes. Please tell me what this has to do with the differences between Quantum and Classical?

 

[Polymath257]

The fact that initial conditions only determine the probabilities of measurements and not the actual measurements themselves, and that the wavefunction is sensitive to interaction, would suggest that reality can conform to mind. Since conditions are openly malleable to adjustment by the act of experimentation.

So reality is subject to the way the experimental equipment is used. No reason for it to 'conform to mind' any more than the classical world does when we set up an experiment.

 

[Thief]

Yes. Please tell me what this has to do with the differences between Quantum and Classical?

someone said.....it has to be observed

I don't think so

 

[dfnj]

- In Quantum Mechanics, all particles in the universe are described by a wavefunction.
Thus we have the first real evidence for the existence of God.

The wavefunction is representation of the probability density over many measurements. What the wavefunction curve represents has several interpretations.

I'm not exactly sure you can conclude QM is real evidence for the existence of God. That is an interpretation many people will not make.

The "idealism" described in this video you might find interesting:

Many people believe materialism is an absolute dogma.

 

[Polymath257]

The wavefunction is representation of the probability density over many measurements. What the wavefunction curve represents has several interpretations.

I'm not exactly sure you can conclude QM is real evidence for the existence of God. That is an interpretation many people will not make.

The "idealism" described in this video you might find interesting:

Many people believe materialism is an absolute dogma.

Sorry, but this is one of those very wrong popular treatments of QM. Consciousness is NOT required to collapse wave functions. Only interaction with complex environments is required. The environment is what determines the 'super selection rules', again through quantum means. That eye in the video is terribly misleading.

 

[sayak83]

The fact that initial conditions only determine the probabilities of measurements and not the actual measurements themselves, and that the wavefunction is sensitive to interaction, would suggest that reality can conform to mind. Since conditions are openly malleable to adjustment by the act of experimentation.

Observations are malleable to the set up. If you just think and do nothing, nothing changes. In contrast if a completely unplanned change occurs, like a malfunction, then the results change.

 

[Ostronomos]

Quantum Consciousness....

 

[Thermos aquaticus]

The fact that initial conditions only determine the probabilities of measurements and not the actual measurements themselves, and that the wavefunction is sensitive to interaction, would suggest that reality can conform to mind. Since conditions are openly malleable to adjustment by the act of experimentation.

Conditions are openly malleable to non-conscious forces, so no mind is needed. If you think the mind is involved, then set up a double slit experiment and try to get different results with the same experimental setup by using just your mind. I think you will be horribly disappointed by the fact that you can't change the results of experiments by simply thinking about them.

If you shoot a laser beam into a cloud of steam, the sparkles you see are the molecules of water collapsing the wave function of the photons leaving the laser apparatus. It is the individual water molecules that collapse the wave function, and last I checked a water molecule is not a consciousness.