"Reformed" Islam

[ginaleanne]

In 25 years the Islamic world will be unavoidably split in two:
----the moderate Muslims living in European countries and in America, who have a reformed and secular vision of Islam

---the Asian and African Muslims who have the traditional vision of Islam.

Have you been to all the regions you are comparing and seen for yourself or do you base this on the medias version?

 

[Estro Felino]

Have you been to all the regions you are comparing and seen for yourself or do you base this on the medias version?

The grave thing is that people are scandalized when they hear something like secular Islam.

As if it was blasphemy.
Secularism is a wonderful thing. It allows people to express their freedom of thought. and by the way, people are free to debunk and criticize Christianity.

and I am a Christian and I'm very glad when people criticize Christ's figure or aspects of the religion. I am very very glad. because it's their right and I care about their opinion
why shouldn't people be allowed to criticize Islam? Is it a privileged religion?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Yes, Islamdoes not acceptany criticism
Because there are verses from the Quran to prevent criticism of that religion's best
(It did not follow the Islam religion would not accept him and he ultimately lost))
Christianitywas subjectedtoa terribleattackofIslam
Fourteen hundred years ago
Muslims saythingsagainstChrist
In the Qur'an is not true about Christian faith
(The hamlet who say God third three)
The end of verse
This attack and betrayal
Christian says that the three gods,but one God
Why angry Muslim when we defend our faith
And tell him to talk frankly and also clear speech
This accusation is null
Islam and Muslims consider you West of Kfar
How ever you did-you of the infidels-.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Criticizingthe Prophet Muhammadis punishableinthe followingsentence??
Cutthe right handwiththe left leg
Neve is Earth??
Do you think thatanyMuslim
Sointhinkingwith himselfincriticism of Islamwithsuchterriblepunishment??
Which Godthis???
Theterriblepunishment??Inthis waythe???
I invite you to review this sentence from the Qur'an
Soyou knowwhat I'm talkingabout
Wetsalonyourself
I leave the answer to you also.

 

[Harikrish]

Islam cannot be reformed. 800 million illiterate Muslims have embraced it. They cannot be educated so they will change their minds any more than Christians who believe God was a carpenters son.

 

[icehorse]

Have you been to all the regions you are comparing and seen for yourself or do you base this on the medias version?

Do you give any credence to the results of polls of tens of thousands of Muslims across dozens of countries?

 

[AstralProjectee]

Islam can not be explained in terms of Christianity. It is not a religion in the same concept. Islam is not a Theocratic doctrine it is a Theocratic action. Islam is a verb and means "The act of Submitting to Allaah(swt)" a person who performs Islam is a Muslim (male) Muslimah(Female)

As a Muslim I can not even envision Islam as a set of rules, doctrines or commands. It is a personal commitment between myself and Allaah(swt) Neither I nor any other Muslim can "Prove" he is a Muslim. We do not join an organization, we do not submit to the leadership of any clergy, we do not have any sacraments or ritual that makes us a Muslim. Our only evidence of being Muslim is our saying we are Muslim.

To be a Muslim is to strive to obey Allaah(swt) in every word, thought and deed. Our life is our religion. In Arabic there is one word for life and religion. De'en. They are inseparable all we do is a prayer and our De'en reflects our love of Allaah(swt) or shows we are ignoring Allaah(swt)

The concept of "reforming Islam" is basically not understandable. How does one reform an action. Islam is not a club, Social Organization or a Centralized ideology. It is simply the act of submitting to Allaah(swt) to the best of our ability. It is not a spoon fed religion with required classes and studies. We each are responsible for our own beliefs and our own search to find how to serve Allaah(swt).

Each of us can only relate our own path and what we have found to be the way to perform Islam. For myself I find that to be to avoid that which the Qur'an forbids, to do my best to follow the Sunnah, to perform the 5 Pillars of faith to the best of my ability and to use the Hanafi Madhab as a guide to Shariah.

It is impossible to Reform Islam, we simply are not organized in a central manner to reform.

Some people that wear the name of Muslim could probably benefit from some reformation, but it is their own responsibility to find if they are truly doing the act of Islam.

A side point: Every Muslim I personally know, believes that if one can not live by the laws of a Nation, they have an obligation to leave that nation.

You make Islam sound more like Islamism.

 

[Woodrow LI]

You make Islam sound more like Islamism.

How do you define Islamism. As a Muslim it is not a word I have heard before.

Islam is the act of submitting to Allaah(swt)
I believe the way to do so is to follow the 5 pillars to the best of my ability

5 pillars of Islam
1) The Testimony of Faith:
The testimony of faith is saying with conviction, “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah.” This saying means “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah),1 and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.” The first part, “There is no true god but God,” means that none has the right to be worshipped but God alone, and that God has neither partner nor son. This testimony of faith is called the Shahada, a simple formula which should be said with conviction in order to convert to Islam (as explained previously on this page). The testimony of faith is the most important pillar of Islam

2) Prayer:
Muslims perform five prayers a day. Each prayer does not take more than a few minutes to perform. Prayer in Islam is a direct link between the worshipper and God. There are no intermediaries between God and the worshipper.
In prayer, a person feels inner happiness, peace, and comfort, and that God is pleased with him or her. The Prophet Muhammad said: {Bilal, call (the people) to prayer, let us be comforted by it.}2 Bilal was one of Muhammad’s companions who was charged to call the people to prayers.
Prayers are performed at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and night. A Muslim may pray almost anywhere, such as in fields, offices, factories, or universities.


3) Giving Zakat (Support of the Needy):
All things belong to God, and wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The original meaning of the word zakat is both ‘purification’ and ‘growth.’ Giving zakat means ‘giving a specified percentage on certain properties to certain classes of needy people.’ The percentage which is due on gold, silver, and cash funds that have reached the amount of about 85 grams of gold and held in possession for one lunar year is two and a half percent. Our possessions are purified by setting aside a small portion for those in need, and, like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth.
A person may also give as much as he or she pleases as voluntary alms or charity.

4) Fasting the Month of Ramadan:
Every year in the month of Ramadan,4 all Muslims fast from dawn until sundown, abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations.
Although the fast is beneficial to health, it is regarded principally as a method of spiritual self-purification. By cutting oneself off from worldly comforts, even for a short time, a fasting person gains true sympathy with those who go hungry, as well as growth in his or her spiritual life.

5) The Pilgrimage to Makkah:
The annual pilgrimage (Hajj) to Makkah is an obligation once in a lifetime for those who are physically and financially able to perform it. About two million people go to Makkah each year from every corner of the globe. Although Makkah is always filled with visitors, the annual Hajj is performed in the twelfth month of the Islamic calendar. Male pilgrims wear special simple clothes which strip away distinctions of class and culture so that all stand equal before God.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The grave thing is that people are scandalized when they hear something like secular Islam.

Until your religion has kicked all the pedophile priests and those who blamed the victims to the curb, I suggest you look at Islam with the same sort of lens that lets you move beyond what those pack of rabid dogs did to those boys molested and see those pukes do not represent Catholicism as a whole, so you can see that Islamic extremists groups, though more violent and dangerous, are too nothing more than a pack of rabid dogs who do not represent Islam as a whole.
Until then, you have no right to tell another religion to reform itself. Many cruel and wicked things are carried out in the name of Catholicism, just as many cruel and wicked things are carried out in the name of Islam.

 

[AstralProjectee]

How do you define Islamism. As a Muslim it is not a word I have heard before.

Islam is the act of submitting to Allaah(swt)
I believe the way to do so is to follow the 5 pillars to the best of my ability

5 pillars of Islam
1) The Testimony of Faith:
The testimony of faith is saying with conviction, “La ilaha illa Allah, Muhammadur rasoolu Allah.” This saying means “There is no true god (deity) but God (Allah),1 and Muhammad is the Messenger (Prophet) of God.” The first part, “There is no true god but God,” means that none has the right to be worshipped but God alone, and that God has neither partner nor son. This testimony of faith is called the Shahada, a simple formula which should be said with conviction in order to convert to Islam (as explained previously on this page). The testimony of faith is the most important pillar of Islam

2) Prayer:
Muslims perform five prayers a day. Each prayer does not take more than a few minutes to perform. Prayer in Islam is a direct link between the worshipper and God. There are no intermediaries between God and the worshipper.
In prayer, a person feels inner happiness, peace, and comfort, and that God is pleased with him or her. The Prophet Muhammad said: {Bilal, call (the people) to prayer, let us be comforted by it.}2 Bilal was one of Muhammad’s companions who was charged to call the people to prayers.
Prayers are performed at dawn, noon, mid-afternoon, sunset, and night. A Muslim may pray almost anywhere, such as in fields, offices, factories, or universities.


3) Giving Zakat (Support of the Needy):
All things belong to God, and wealth is therefore held by human beings in trust. The original meaning of the word zakat is both ‘purification’ and ‘growth.’ Giving zakat means ‘giving a specified percentage on certain properties to certain classes of needy people.’ The percentage which is due on gold, silver, and cash funds that have reached the amount of about 85 grams of gold and held in possession for one lunar year is two and a half percent. Our possessions are purified by setting aside a small portion for those in need, and, like the pruning of plants, this cutting back balances and encourages new growth.
A person may also give as much as he or she pleases as voluntary alms or charity.

4) Fasting the Month of Ramadan:
Every year in the month of Ramadan,4 all Muslims fast from dawn until sundown, abstaining from food, drink, and sexual relations.
Although the fast is beneficial to health, it is regarded principally as a method of spiritual self-purification. By cutting oneself off from worldly comforts, even for a short time, a fasting person gains true sympathy with those who go hungry, as well as growth in his or her spiritual life.

5) The Pilgrimage to Makkah:
The annual pilgrimage (Hajj) to Makkah is an obligation once in a lifetime for those who are physically and financially able to perform it. About two million people go to Makkah each year from every corner of the globe. Although Makkah is always filled with visitors, the annual Hajj is performed in the twelfth month of the Islamic calendar. Male pilgrims wear special simple clothes which strip away distinctions of class and culture so that all stand equal before God.

Maajid Nawaz talks about Islamism. I am sure you have heard him speak before.

Islamism is a popular reform movement advocating the reordering of government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam.

All that practically means is that within Islamism there is no separation from Government and religion. Maajid Nawaz explains it better though.

 

[Woodrow LI]

Maajid Nawaz talks about Islamism. I am sure you have heard him speak before.

Islamism is a popular reform movement advocating the reordering of government and society in accordance with laws prescribed by Islam.

All that practically means is that within Islamism there is no separation from Government and religion. Maajid Nawaz explains it better though.

I had never heard of him until you just mentioned him. I will do a google search and see what I been missing

 

[Woodrow LI]

I had never heard of him until you just mentioned him. I will do a google search and see what I been missing

I should mention I live in the boondocks and this is where I am usually found these are my wife's people and who I call my family

This is the land I will call home for the remainder of my days

 

[Woodrow LI]

Just did a quick google search. I do not see much news from the UK

 

[AstralProjectee]

I had never heard of him until you just mentioned him. I will do a google search and see what I been missing

Maajid Nawaz explains the difference between Islam and islamism to Bill Maher and Richard Dawkins

 

[mahmoud mrt]

To reform Islam we Muslims need the following:

1) Take the holy Qur’an as a whole, not take part and leave the other.

2) To undress the prophet’s traditions from any kind of holiness, the only holy book is the Qur’an. This is for the fact the prophet himself did not allow writing his traditions in his life, so as not to get confused with the Qur’an, and all the traditions books are efforts from men trying to reach authenticity by examining the line of narrations.

On the other hand the holy Qur’an is a prayer worship book, it has been written and mesmerized in the prophet’s life by thousands of companions, then through ages written and mesmerized and prayed with by millions and millions of Muslims.

So only if a tradition is compatible with the holy Quran as a whole it’s accepted, all other are rejected.

By doing this you’ll not see stoning, any punishment for the apostate, any tax form being non-Muslim in a Muslim country, etc.

3) To undress the Islamic history from any holiness, Islamic history is like any other nation has its pros and cons, it has glories things, and bad things evenly.

4) To undress any old Scholar from any immunity to criticism, Muslims must confront the opinion of any scholar regardless what degree he was or is.

If the Muslims nations did these things, then the Reformed Islam as clear, mercifully and wonderful as the prophet peace be upon him revealed it will come again, If not ,then the only solution is to separate the religion from the state and laws by force completely till Muslims reach enough maturity to do the formal 4 points.



I’m a Muslim and I’m proud to be A Muslim, but to be frank we need a lot to really understand Islam as it was revealed, not polluted with fake traditions, history and scholars’ mistakes.



Regards

Mahmoud

 

[Estro Felino]

To reform Islam we Muslims need the following:

1) Take the holy Qur’an as a whole, not take part and leave the other.

2) To undress the prophet’s traditions from any kind of holiness, the only holy book is the Qur’an. This is for the fact the prophet himself did not allow writing his traditions in his life, so as not to get confused with the Qur’an, and all the traditions books are efforts from men trying to reach authenticity by examining the line of narrations.

On the other hand the holy Qur’an is a prayer worship book, it has been written and mesmerized in the prophet’s life by thousands of companions, then through ages written and mesmerized and prayed with by millions and millions of Muslims.

So only if a tradition is compatible with the holy Quran as a whole it’s accepted, all other are rejected.

By doing this you’ll not see stoning, any punishment for the apostate, any tax form being non-Muslim in a Muslim country, etc.

3) To undress the Islamic history from any holiness, Islamic history is like any other nation has its pros and cons, it has glories things, and bad things evenly.

4) To undress any old Scholar from any immunity to criticism, Muslims must confront the opinion of any scholar regardless what degree he was or is.

If the Muslims nations did these things, then the Reformed Islam as clear, mercifully and wonderful as the prophet peace be upon him revealed it will come again, If not ,then the only solution is to separate the religion from the state and laws by force completely till Muslims reach enough maturity to do the formal 4 points.



I’m a Muslim and I’m proud to be A Muslim, but to be frank we need a lot to really understand Islam as it was revealed, not polluted with fake traditions, history and scholars’ mistakes.



Regards

Mahmoud

It's people like you who bring honor to your religion. The media need people like you who tell people how spiritual and beautiful your religion is.

You must be proud of yourself

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

It's people like you who bring honor to your religion. The media need people like you who tell people how spiritual and beautiful your religion is.

You must be proud of yourself

ThisMuslimfollowsthe piousIslamic??
Hewants to cancelall history
؟؟؟
He says that only the Quran is true??
Muslimsin the pasthadfollowedlies?!?
The Qur'an is notabeauty??
If he wants Islam and Quran??
The Qur'an cannot be explained and know of no conversations?!?
How to explainto us howMuhammadmarriedZaynab Bint jahsh??
Killing ofthe apostateisthe teachings of the Quran?
Doall Muslimslie?!?
The sahaabah and taabi'een???
Islamcannot berepaired???
Onlyyou mustleave it??
If you want toreform Islamgo toMakkah??!?

 

[icehorse]

To reform Islam we Muslims need the following:

1) Take the holy Qur’an as a whole, not take part and leave the other.

2) To undress the prophet’s traditions from any kind of holiness, the only holy book is the Qur’an. This is for the fact the prophet himself did not allow writing his traditions in his life, so as not to get confused with the Qur’an, and all the traditions books are efforts from men trying to reach authenticity by examining the line of narrations.

On the other hand the holy Qur’an is a prayer worship book, it has been written and mesmerized in the prophet’s life by thousands of companions, then through ages written and mesmerized and prayed with by millions and millions of Muslims.

So only if a tradition is compatible with the holy Quran as a whole it’s accepted, all other are rejected.

By doing this you’ll not see stoning, any punishment for the apostate, any tax form being non-Muslim in a Muslim country, etc.

3) To undress the Islamic history from any holiness, Islamic history is like any other nation has its pros and cons, it has glories things, and bad things evenly.

4) To undress any old Scholar from any immunity to criticism, Muslims must confront the opinion of any scholar regardless what degree he was or is.

If the Muslims nations did these things, then the Reformed Islam as clear, mercifully and wonderful as the prophet peace be upon him revealed it will come again, If not ,then the only solution is to separate the religion from the state and laws by force completely till Muslims reach enough maturity to do the formal 4 points.

I’m a Muslim and I’m proud to be A Muslim, but to be frank we need a lot to really understand Islam as it was revealed, not polluted with fake traditions, history and scholars’ mistakes.

Regards

Mahmoud

Well this would be a step in the correct direction!

 

[icehorse]

Until your religion has kicked all the pedophile priests and those who blamed the victims to the curb, I suggest you look at Islam with the same sort of lens that lets you move beyond what those pack of rabid dogs did to those boys molested and see those pukes do not represent Catholicism as a whole, so you can see that Islamic extremists groups, though more violent and dangerous, are too nothing more than a pack of rabid dogs who do not represent Islam as a whole.
Until then, you have no right to tell another religion to reform itself. Many cruel and wicked things are carried out in the name of Catholicism, just as many cruel and wicked things are carried out in the name of Islam.

Mostly agreed.

One key point to clarify though, is that "Islamism" isn't a belief held by a few extremists. Rather, it's a belief held by hundreds of millions of Muslims. This is a serious situation that should not be clouded by claiming "it's only the extremists".

 

[Augustus]

In 25 years the Islamic world will be unavoidably split in two:
----the moderate Muslims living in European countries and in America, who have a reformed and secular vision of Islam

---the Asian and African Muslims who have the traditional vision of Islam.

Many (especially South-East) Asian and African Muslims tend to have a version of Islam which is heavily influenced by pre-Islamic beliefs. They are also influenced by countless post-Islamic beliefs too.

Arabian Muslims are the ones who have the most 'traditional' beliefs, although they are doing their best to export their version to the rest of the Muslim world with their $$$ (usually causing significant problems in the developing world). But, the idea that their beliefs are more 'authentic' is not necessarily correct.

The idea of 'traditional' Islam though is a somewhat subjective and highly controversial concept. If by traditional we mean what the earliest Muslims practiced then modern extremists are not traditional. More than that, we don't really know a great deal about the earliest Muslims anyway. From what we know with confidence, we can find Muslims who spent fortunes translating Greek philosophy and supporting science and the arts, and other Muslims who condemned much of this as being (close to) apostasy.

There is no one Islam. Islam has been constantly 'reformed' throughout its history, just as any religion has been. Religions are belief systems that exist in the actions, behaviours and preferences of adherents, they don't have an objective and reified form, just multiple forms that have varying degrees of acceptance and popularity. They reform based on culture, history, politics, economics, etc.

All Islam is reformed in some sense and it will continue be reformed. Whether this reform process will move it towards or away from a "Western secular' mindset only time will tell. Just as whether or not a Western secular midst will reform in a more tolerant or more nationalist direction.