Regarding Knight and Itwillend

[Harmonious]

We know that peace will NEVER happen on this earth,

Interesting concept.

You DO know that by saying this, you are, in fact, saying that God lied to countless prophets, including Moses himself. If that is your belief, you are welcome to it. But for some reason, I rather feel compelled to believe what God in fact told the prophets.

I'm surprised that TheKnight kept up this discussion with you as long as he did.

I don't know what you know or don't know about Jews (and non-Jews who believe as Jews do), but we pray CONSTANTLY for REAL peace, because God promised it to us. It is in every last supplication, it is part of every benediction to thank God for our meals, it is in the Priestly Blessing, it is in the prayers that parents give their children. It is in the prayer that is the stop-gap between every portion of a Jewish prayer service.

YOU may have decided that a real peace between the nations of the world is a fiction, and that the REAL Israel is not worthy of it, or whatever else it is you believe.

But if you mock the basic, underlying premise of everything that Orthodox Jews (and other Jews, and non-Jews who believe as we do) hold dear and holy, by calling it "unintelligent" to believe, I do not believe it is worth the time to put pen to paper to discuss WHY we believe what we do so firmly.

Since time in memorium, Jews (and those who believe as we do) have just wanted to be left alone, IN PEACE, to worship as we will. You say it is immature to believe that people will actually STOP trying to kill Jews wholesale, whether (as in centuries past) as Christians decided to slaughter "Christ-killers," or as Jihadist Muslims are interested in slaughtering Jews until no such humans exist in the literal land of Israel, or any other bizarre permutation of anti-Semitic ******** who have decided that killing Jews wholesale is okay, for whatever excuse they dream up.

Thanks. I'm glad to see where you REALLY stand.

 

[Poisonshady313]

No it is not distracting. I simply can cite David plenty of times being referred too in the Old Testament. That the throne of David would reign forever. Do you think David is going to come back and rule?

The messiah will be the son of David. not literally, because Solomon and Nathan were his sons. "son of" meaning descendant.

This awaited descendant of David will be the continuation of David's reign. The rule of the Messiah, through himself and his descendants, which will also be descendants of David, will be everlasting.

I am honestly asking you that, because I believe when it refers to the throne of David, it is not implying David will be coming back to rule. Do you believe he will?

Asked and answered.

If not, than this would be a suitable example of how the words can mention people and places, but also be possible to be speaking about other things.

but the things you figure it must be speaking of are both outrageous and in contradiction with scripture.

I am not trying to twist anything, I am simply applying the logic and method found throughout the Old Testament to all aspects,

No, you aren't.

so that I am not missing anything.

But you are missing everything.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Interesting concept.

You DO know that by saying this, you are, in fact, saying that God lied to countless prophets, including Moses himself. If that is your belief, you are welcome to it. But for some reason, I rather feel compelled to believe what God in fact told the prophets.

I'm surprised that TheKnight kept up this discussion with you as long as he did.

I don't know what you know or don't know about Jews (and non-Jews who believe as Jews do), but we pray CONSTANTLY for REAL peace, because God promised it to us. It is in every last supplication, it is part of every benediction to thank God for our meals, it is in the Priestly Blessing, it is in the prayers that parents give their children. It is in the prayer that is the stop-gap between every portion of a Jewish prayer service.

YOU may have decided that a real peace between the nations of the world is a fiction, and that the REAL Israel is not worthy of it, or whatever else it is you believe.

But if you mock the basic, underlying premise of everything that Orthodox Jews (and other Jews, and non-Jews who believe as we do) hold dear and holy, by calling it "unintelligent" to believe, I do not believe it is worth the time to put pen to paper to discuss WHY we believe what we do so firmly.

Since time in memorium, Jews (and those who believe as we do) have just wanted to be left alone, IN PEACE, to worship as we will. You say it is immature to believe that people will actually STOP trying to kill Jews wholesale, whether (as in centuries past) as Christians decided to slaughter "Christ-killers," or as Jihadist Muslims are interested in slaughtering Jews until no such humans exist in the literal land of Israel, or any other bizarre permutation of anti-Semitic ******** who have decided that killing Jews wholesale is okay, for whatever excuse they dream up.

Thanks. I'm glad to see where you REALLY stand.

Oh OK, so you pop in on a dead one on one thread where you don't belong. Drop trash talk and then run.

You point to me ONE TIME where I said it is OK to kill Jews wholesale. ONE TIME, go ahead I will mail you every dollar I have if you can show me where I ever said that.

You are so offensive I can't even begin to convey it.

So what we believe two different things. That's life. You will NEVER be taken seriously here or anywhere else by putting words in other peoples mouth.

Let's talk about what I did say. I said peace will never happen. Does that mean I don't want it to happen? Did I say I don't want it to happen? NO!
The fact is killing sucks! Anyway you look at it. I never condoned it or said it was good.

God has done PLENTY of killing in our Earth's history, and that is His business not mine. I do believe that the killing will Not stop until Jesus comes back.

So back the F off of me, and read what I really said before posting slanderous remarks about me.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Oh OK, so you pop in on a dead one on one thread where you don't belong. Drop trash talk and then run.

You point to me ONE TIME where I said it is OK to kill Jews wholesale. ONE TIME, go ahead I will mail you every dollar I have if you can show me where I ever said that.

You are so offensive I can't even begin to convey it.

So what we believe two different things. That's life. You will NEVER be taken seriously here or anywhere else by putting words in other peoples mouth.

Let's talk about what I did say. I said peace will never happen. Does that mean I don't want it to happen? Did I say I don't want it to happen? NO!
The fact is killing sucks! Anyway you look at it. I never condoned it or said it was good.

God has done PLENTY of killing in our Earth's history, and that is His business not mine. I do believe that the killing will Not stop until Jesus comes back.

So back the F off of me, and read what I really said before posting slanderous remarks about me.

Your statement: Oh and I could just as easily say it would make you look more intelligent if you stopped kidding yourself that LITERAL Israel will have peace one day.

Combined with your posts insisting that real peace on earth is not God's will (despite his numerous promises to bring real peace on earth) imply that it is less than intelligent to believe that God's will includes any sort of relief for Israel.

Which is to say, you believe it is less than intelligent to believe that one day people will no longer cease to annihilate Jews... because that is what Jews have been facing since slavery in Egypt.

 

[Poisonshady313]

And she didn't mean to pop into the dead thread. She was following the links in this thread, which happen to lead back to the other one... and she started to type her reply in that thread, even though it was meant for this one.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

Your statement: Oh and I could just as easily say it would make you look more intelligent if you stopped kidding yourself that LITERAL Israel will have peace one day.

This was a reply to a statement Knight made first, in like fashion. He dished it out and I gave it back. And? Or did you miss that part?

Which is to say, you believe it is less than intelligent to believe that one day people will no longer cease to annihilate Jews... because that is what Jews have been facing since slavery in Egypt.

You know my grandfather lives with me, and he was in the army and went to Normandy on d-day. He served for 24 years and then retired. I have heard PLENTY of how awful it was over there during that time, and I am aware of how awful it is in many other times for Jews. I have cried thinking about it. So stop judging me about how I feel about Jews.

I actually am involved with an organization to stop Human Trafficking. There is PLENTY I hate about this world, but I still want to help.

That has nothing to do with me believing it will never end. I think the Jews will get their relief when Jesus comes back. That is when the killing will stop.
I am sorry it is not the way you believe, but I do have a heart, so stop painting me as if I don't

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I have to go for now, I'll try to be back tomorrow. Have good night Poison...

 

[Harmonious]

Oh OK, so you pop in on a dead one on one thread where you don't belong. Drop trash talk and then run.

I deleted it, as I realized that it was the wrong thread. It might be useless to ask you to forgive me, but I really thought I was in THIS thread. I just followed the arrows back to the original quote, and I mistakenly thought it was in THIS thread.

I didn't mean to post in the thread in which I didn't belong. But as for the rest of this...

You point to me ONE TIME where I said it is OK to kill Jews wholesale. ONE TIME, go ahead I will mail you every dollar I have if you can show me where I ever said that.

The very fact that you believe that the prophecy of peace isn't real conveys this.

THAT is what the peace is all about. It is about stopping the wholesale killing of Jews (and others).

But if this isn't a REAL thing that God promised, then what conclusion has been left to come to about what it is that you REALLY believe?

You are so offensive I can't even begin to convey it.

As are you.

So what we believe two different things. That's life. You will NEVER be taken seriously here or anywhere else by putting words in other peoples mouth.

I didn't put any words in your mouth. I didn't say you recommended killing people.

I DID say that your belief that God won't make the killing come to an end makes me question why you would believe that.

Let's talk about what I did say. I said peace will never happen.

I noticed.

Does that mean I don't want it to happen? Did I say I don't want it to happen? NO!
The fact is killing sucks! Anyway you look at it. I never condoned it or said it was good.

But you merely believe it is beyond God's plan to end it. Gotcha.

God has done PLENTY of killing in our Earth's history, and that is His business not mine. I do believe that the killing will Not stop until Jesus comes back.

Interesting. You DO believe that the killing will stop.

Do you believe it will end, or don't you? If you DO believe it will end, then we really have no quarrel. But it sounded like you insulted TheKnight for believing that the peace was literal. It was YOU who said:

Oh and I could just as easily say it would make you look more intelligent if you stopped kidding yourself that LITERAL Israel will have peace one day.

It will make TheKnight look more intelligent if he stopped believing - no - KIDDING HIMSELF - that LITERAL Israel will have peace one day.

So which is it? Is it kidding himself to believe that Israel will one day have peace? Or is it that you believe that Jesus (or someone) will bring real peace to this very world?

Or, why is he just kidding himself to believe that this peace will be real, but it is okay for you to believe that belief that Jesus will bring peace is real?

So back the * off of me, and read what I really said before posting slanderous remarks about me.

I said nothing slanderous. I merely explained what I understood from your post and brought it to its obvious conclusion.

 

[Harmonious]

Your statement: Oh and I could just as easily say it would make you look more intelligent if you stopped kidding yourself that LITERAL Israel will have peace one day.

Combined with your posts insisting that real peace on earth is not God's will (despite his numerous promises to bring real peace on earth) imply that it is less than intelligent to believe that God's will includes any sort of relief for Israel.

Which is to say, you believe it is less than intelligent to believe that one day people will no longer cease to annihilate Jews... because that is what Jews have been facing since slavery in Egypt.

Exactly.

 

[Poisonshady313]

That has nothing to do with me believing it will never end. I think the Jews will get their relief when Jesus comes back. That is when the killing will stop.
I am sorry it is not the way you believe, but I do have a heart, so stop painting me as if I don't

So wait... are you saying that the prophecies you said were not literal really are literal, but they only apply to a second coming of Jesus?

Or are you basing the end of the killing on some other verse, even though the verses brought by TheKnight were all about stopping killing?

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I deleted it, as I realized that it was the wrong thread. It might be useless to ask you to forgive me

Of course I forgive you. I don't want to fight with anyone.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

So wait... are you saying that the prophecies you said were not literal really are literal, but they only apply to a second coming of Jesus?

Sort of. I am saying (of which I have to do without using the NT, for said reason, so it is difficult) that when Jesus comes back on the last day. He will destroy this Earth and create a new one. This new Earth will have peace for all those that were saved. This could be any natural Jew, or anyone on the Earth for that matter. I do not believe it is exclusive to just natural Jews, but anyone that becomes a child of God.

Here is the reason I say the Earth must be destroyed. God created this Earth to "grow" or "raise" a people for himself. In that process there was plenty of imperfection, which is unacceptable to God. So God being only perfect, will raise His children up the last day, and put them in a new Earth. Now will that literally mean this balls of rock will disappear? I dunno, maybe it will just be wiped out and start over. Not sure about that.

Or are you basing the end of the killing on some other verse, even though the verses brought by TheKnight were all about stopping killing?

To me there has been a greater war going on beyond the human against human war. I believe Satan has been busy at work perverting God's ways. Until Satan is stopped, there will never be peace.

I believe Satan was stopped at the cross. Death was finally proven to be less than effective, and the war was over. However, until Judgment day, we as humans (Jews included) will continue in our folly, right up until the end. Which means people will die, fight, and all sorts of bad things.

We may not like that, but it doesn't matter what we like. Yes God promised peace, we all agree on that. What we don't agree upon is how and when that peace will come. I do not believe God is concerned about Israel one bit, no more than he in concerned about Africa or American or anywhere else.

He is concerned with His children, which are some Jews and some non-Jews. The title of a state is just an illusion to me, and the Kingdom of God will be something entirely different than a piece of dirt in the Middle East.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

To you Poison and Harmonious.

Here is the bottom line. We both believe we know God's word, and we should both agree this is not becoming of a Godly nature when we argue like this.
Seeing we will all be accountable one day for our actions, let's just stop arguing. I guess it took this thread to see it is wrong.
We may not agree, but I am sure there is plenty we can agree upon in other matters. So, it is with that I will look for you in the forums, and in the future I will not go down a road with you that "we both know" isn't going to go anywhere good.
I love both of you, even though you don't know me, and maybe that is to wishy washy for you, but peace between us is more important than all this going back and forth at each other.

See you around.

 

[Poisonshady313]

I love both of you, even though you don't know me, and maybe that is to wishy washy for you, but peace between us is more important than all this going back and forth at each other.

See you around.

I know that you mean that figuratively, as you aren't interested in a real peace between us, and there can never be peace between us. And I'd be less than intelligent if I tried to kid myself into believing that you are actually concerned about Harmonious and I.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

I know that you mean that figuratively, as you aren't interested in a real peace between us, and there can never be peace between us. And I'd be less than intelligent if I tried to kid myself into believing that you are actually concerned about Harmonious and I.

That is too bad you feel that way. After going through these two threads, I just realized nothing good will ever come out of them, and it is better to be peaceful with each other than at each others neck.
Either way, I hope we can talk again some other time about other things.

For example, would you care to share where you are from, and tell me a little about yourself? I am more interested in that than I am fighting with you.

If your not interested, I will leave you be.

Later...

 

[Poisonshady313]

That is too bad you feel that way. After going through these two threads, I just realized nothing good will ever come out of them, and it is better to be peaceful with each other than at each others neck.
Either way, I hope we can talk again some other time about other things.

For example, would you care to share where you are from, and tell me a little about yourself? I am more interested in that than I am fighting with you.

If your not interested, I will leave you be.

Later...

It appears to me that you missed where I was going with this.

I pulled on you precisely the same thing you pulled on TheKnight. You saw the words, and dismissed them because you figured, for reasons unknown, that they meant something other than what they said.

I saw what you said, and decided that you don't mean what you say... because in your world, words don't seem to mean anything...

If you don't believe God when He says there will be a real and lasting peace on this earth that will come about when the Messiah arrives... why should I believe you when you say you want there to be peace between us and that you're interested in my life story?

And despite the fact that the bible clearly indicates that God purposefully established the state of Israel, with an eternal covenant, and every exile we go through we will be redeemed from, and that the messianic prophecies clearly show how close God is to Israel and that He will never forsake Israel... you believe that God doesn't care about Israel... that the concept of "Israel" is somehow a metaphor for mankind...

So it seems only fair that despite your claim to the contrary, I should conclude that you don't care a thing about me or preserving a peace between you and I.


What I'm interested in or not really shouldn't matter to you. What should matter to you is your own ability to communicate honestly with people... not being a hypocrite... and not lashing out at people when your own words come back to bite you in the ***.

 

[Poisonshady313]

For example, would you care to share where you are from, and tell me a little about yourself? I am more interested in that than I am fighting with you.

What's more, given your tendency to make wild assumptions regarding the meaning of what's written, I couldn't trust you enough to tell you about myself, because you'd end up contriving a wild theory about who I "really" am... which could only end badly.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

What I'm interested in or not really shouldn't matter to you. What should matter to you is your own ability to communicate honestly with people... not being a hypocrite... and not lashing out at people when your own words come back to bite you in the ***.

Well I see only hostility coming from you right now. You speak of peace so much, yet you can not come together with me despite our differences.
Make of that what you will.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Well I see only hostility coming from you right now. You speak of peace so much, yet you can not come together with me despite our differences.
Make of that what you will.

It's not hostility. I'm calmly analyzing the situation... and since it plays out unfavorably for you, it translates as hostility to you.

Anybody who knows me knows that I'm an easy going and agreeable fellow.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

It's not hostility. I'm calmly analyzing the situation... and since it plays out unfavorably for you, it translates as hostility to you.

Anybody who knows me knows that I'm an easy going and agreeable fellow.

By you not wanting to make peace with me, is in essense the opposite of peace. Call it what you want, but if the shoe fits...

I'm ready to talk with you about anything other than this stuff, because we can't come together on it. Instead of trying to work together on finding commonality, you would rather not.

The offer is always open.