Reincarnation vs Resurrection. Which is real?

[Muffled]

I believe in both resurrection and reincarnation. I believe the Hindu concepts of reincarnation are in error.

I believe I have been reincarnated many times but most recently I spent time in Heaven because of a traumatic event in my previous life. I believe God gave me to good parents as a reward for loving Him and being good.

 

[Muffled]

The premise of the discussion is that it has to be one or the other, it can't be both (your soul can't both resurrect and reincarnate at the same time). And when you say scientifically proven, please be more specific

I believe resurrection is a form of reincarnation. Once the body is dead the spirit is disconnected from it so the body has to be alive again for a reconnection. Resurrection is reincarnation in the same body. Reincarnation is into a fetus. Possession is trying to take over someone else's body.

 

[Muffled]

Oh I see. I read the article now. I understand the past life experiences as a basis for reincarnation, but why is he investigating birth marks? Isn't the whole basis of reincarnation on atman? (Only the soul is eternal the body is different?). And can not such birthmarks and birth defects be attributed to genetic inheritance?

I believe it is likely that people reincarnate into the same family so are apt to inherit the same traits. I am different. I tend to incarnate for different experiences. I believe that includes incarnations on alien worlds.

 

[Thinking Homer]

I believe in both resurrection and reincarnation. I believe the Hindu concepts of reincarnation are in error.

I believe I have been reincarnated many times but most recently I spent time in Heaven because of a traumatic event in my previous life. I believe God gave me to good parents as a reward for loving Him and being good.

So do you believe that people can reincarnate into a different religion?

 

[sun rise]

Besides Ian Stevenson, here are a couple of more recent pages on reincarnation. One from Scientific American and an NPR interview with a current researcher

Ian Stevenson’s Case for the Afterlife: Are We ‘Skeptics’ Really Just Cynics?

Searching For The Science Behind Reincarnation

 

[Jainarayan]

I don't really believe in death. Or birth, for that matter.

Matter and energy are constantly being exchanged, and it is always paired creation/destruction. Matter and energy leaves one thing ("destruction" or "death") and enters some other thing ("creation" or "birth"). The rest is something of a human construct, albeit a useful one for various purposes.

Pretty much my take on it. It's also pretty much at the heart of Hindu and Buddhist beliefs about birth, death and rebirth. Everything in the universe(s) is recycled, stars are a notable example. When a star goes super- or hyper-nova, it blasts its elements out into space, as well as creating all the elements heavier than iron. Only super- and hyper-novae can do that. Anyway, those new elements wind up making new stars, planets, life. Matter an energy can never be destroyed, they can only change form to each other (under certain conditions matter can be created from energy, the reverse of E=MC2 is quite real).

 

[Jainarayan]

I believe the Hindu concepts of reincarnation are in error.

What are those concepts? I ask because many people in the west have great misconceptions about Hindu and Buddhist philosophies and concepts.

 

[George-ananda]

I voted for 'reincarnation' and we are winning so far! Yay!

I just want to add that before reincarnation we spend considerable time as our previous life's personality on the astral and mental planes (that are similar in ways to the western idea of heaven planes). Eventually our soul will see the need for and desire new growing experiences back on the physical plane (reincarnation).

 

[Fool]

As you may well know, the concept of the afterlife in the Abrahamic and Oriental religions differ widely. Whereas one view states one life, one death, and one judgement; the other states numerous life cycles over multiple universes. Here are some scriptural basis for each religious view:

'Then you will know that I am Adonai — when I have opened your graves and made you get up out of your graves, my people! ' Yechezk'el (Ezk) 37:13 (CJB)

'in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed. ' 1 Corinthians 15:52 (NASB)

And of His signs is that you see the land still. But when We send down water upon it, it stirs and grows. Surely, He Who revived it will revive the dead. He is Able to do all things. (Quran 41:39)

Just as the embodied soul continuously passes from childhood to youth to old age, similarly, at the time of death, the soul passes into another body. The wise are not deluded by this. (Bhagavad Gita 2:13)

Life is a journey. Death is a return to earth. The universe is like an inn. The passing years are like dust. Regard this phantom world As a star at dawn, a bubble in a stream, A flash of lightning in a summer cloud, A flickering lamp - a phantom - and a dream. (Vajracchedikā 32)

So is there any evidence for either views? Did we really have past life experiences? Did Jesus really rise from the dead? Or do we simply cease to exist?

Note that I am open to answers such as personal revelations or past experiences. If you had an Akashic reading done, I am also very interested in how this is carried out and the exact procedure in which it is done.

I created this thread to bridge the gap between different religions that do not often interact with each other, and I hope that we can engage in a meaningful and intellectual way so that both groups may learn something about each other's worldview. I also hope that we can challenge each other on our respective beliefs in a civil manner, and the basis on which we place our faith.

metempsychosis, or palingenesis is for the physical body. there are only two verses in the christian bible that address reincarnation.

anastasis is for the spiritual body



when you lift up the son man like nehushtan........................



ever played with wise snakes?

naas, ireland

check out the cities motto, "prudens ut serpens"

Naas - Wikipedia

naassene

innocent as a dove

 

[wizanda]

That is, as you say, your opinion, though you state it as fact.

Having given overwhelming evidence in the thread supplied, then personally surprised it isn't more people's opinion as well.

Matthew, Mark, Luke Vs the Gospel of John
Matthew, Mark, Luke Vs the Gospel of John 2nd list

He was Elijah in the same sense that he was Moses and Adam.

John the Baptist wasn't like Adam or Moses, he had a totally different character, his soul matched the spirit of Elijah...

Both hung around in the wilderness, dressed scruffy, with a belt around them, and told everyone they were sinners who needed to repent.

which is against Jewish teachings of that time.

When Yeshua asked the disciples who they thought he was, they replied Elijah or one of the prophets... So they believed in Reincarnation, as Judaism still does (Gilgul).

In my opinion.

 

[Mock Turtle]

Besides Ian Stevenson, here are a couple of more recent pages on reincarnation. One from Scientific American and an NPR interview with a current researcher

Ian Stevenson’s Case for the Afterlife: Are We ‘Skeptics’ Really Just Cynics?

Searching For The Science Behind Reincarnation

I think one issue I would have with reincarnation would be, why doesn't everyone have such memories. Only a few, in the overall scheme of things, having such is a bit questionable. And much of these 'memories' might come from retrieved preverbal memories where the subject has no conscious knowledge of obtaining such information. Also, it's all a bit easy to falsify evidence to suit.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Being born out of the abyss is real enough.

Happened already. That's a fact.

No reason to say it can't ever happen again.

 

[GoodbyeDave]

Why do so many people assume that everyone has the same fate at death?

Most primal (aka pagan) religions involve worshiping ancestors, which rules out anything but continued existence. There are examples of ancestors communicating information to their descendants that has been checked in records and proved correct.

On the other hand, there have been quite convincing studies of evidence for reincarnation. Belief in universal reincarnation, as opposed to it being an occasional event, is confined to Hinduism and the Theravada and Vajnayana schools of Buddism.

Philosophical arguments suggest that belief in extinction is little more than a category error.

As for resurection, since it's supposed to happen at the end of time, one can hardly produce any evidence for it, except by quoting the Bible or the Quran, neither of which will convince most people.

 

[`mud]

Ahhh...Spirit vs. Soul...whats the difference ?
As incubated as a fetus, one gains a spirit of being.
One grows with a sense of being contained lovingly.
When one is born and nurtured in youth, one learns.
One gains a gnosis of what one learns and matures.
One forms a soul as one learns more, and evolves.
Some are introduced to an image of controlling gods.
Some are introduced to evil forces, images of fear.
One is introduced to death and it's possible meaning.
One is promised an afterlife of some uncertain ending.
We are taught from dust we come, and we go to that.
Some are promised to be in Heaven or Nirvana or hell.
Some are promised that they will meet their `gods` there.
All of us are from the Cosmos, and we will return there.
We will return to the air and lightning from the storms.
We will be in the lightning that lights the sky at nightime.
We will be in the air in sunshine also, and in the sea.
All of us will become spirit and air and water and wind.
We will become the stuff that made us, and return there.
I'll join you there, amongst the stuff, and in the Cosmos.

 

[allfoak]

Reincarnation vs Resurrection. Which is real?
They are both real.
As our souls are perfected we turn the material into spirit and eventually all things will overcome death.
This perfection happens as our soul lives in some cases what we would consider an eternity of lifetimes.

 

[sun rise]

I think one issue I would have with reincarnation would be, why doesn't everyone have such memories. Only a few, in the overall scheme of things, having such is a bit questionable. And much of these 'memories' might come from retrieved preverbal memories where the subject has no conscious knowledge of obtaining such information. Also, it's all a bit easy to falsify evidence to suit.

The question of who has such experiences is an interesting one to me. In general, humans are very variable. Not everyone who smokes gets lung cancer, for example. I would ascribe it therefore as due to normal variability.

To your second point, questioning the strength of data is always important. When I've read various documents, I would agree that some evidence is stronger than other evidence. Personally I'd rank physical evidence as stronger. There are many cases of birthmarks which are discussed a bit here Birthmarks and Birth Defects Corresponding to Wounds on Deceased Persons

I'd love to see other teams do similar investigations which is a normal part of the research paradigm. I'd also welcome people looking at the research methods and suggesting ways to improve the methodology.

 

[QuestioningMind]

The resurrection of the saints is real, and reincarnation has been scientifically proven. - Thus your poll needs both as an option.
In my opinion.

I'm not sure that you understand how the scientific method works. You linked to an article about a single scientist's research on the subject. That hardly counts as 'scientifically proven'.

 

[Thinking Homer]

Why do so many people assume that everyone has the same fate at death?

Most primal (aka pagan) religions involve worshiping ancestors, which rules out anything but continued existence. There are examples of ancestors communicating information to their descendants that has been checked in records and proved correct.

On the other hand, there have been quite convincing studies of evidence for reincarnation. Belief in universal reincarnation, as opposed to it being an occasional event, is confined to Hinduism and the Theravada and Vajnayana schools of Buddism.

Philosophical arguments suggest that belief in extinction is little more than a category error.

As for resurection, since it's supposed to happen at the end of time, one can hardly produce any evidence for it, except by quoting the Bible or the Quran, neither of which will convince most people.

So you believe that everybody lives in different spiritual realities? I realize that the burden of proof lies with reincarnation seeing as it has been an ongoing event for millennia, whereas the resurrection is an event sometime in the future, of which no one can be sure of when it's going to happen.

 

[Thinking Homer]

Ahhh...Spirit vs. Soul...whats the difference ?
As incubated as a fetus, one gains a spirit of being.
One grows with a sense of being contained lovingly.
When one is born and nurtured in youth, one learns.
One gains a gnosis of what one learns and matures.
One forms a soul as one learns more, and evolves.
Some are introduced to an image of controlling gods.
Some are introduced to evil forces, images of fear.
One is introduced to death and it's possible meaning.
One is promised an afterlife of some uncertain ending.
We are taught from dust we come, and we go to that.
Some are promised to be in Heaven or Nirvana or hell.
Some are promised that they will meet their `gods` there.
All of us are from the Cosmos, and we will return there.
We will return to the air and lightning from the storms.
We will be in the lightning that lights the sky at nightime.
We will be in the air in sunshine also, and in the sea.
All of us will become spirit and air and water and wind.
We will become the stuff that made us, and return there.
I'll join you there, amongst the stuff, and in the Cosmos.

Very poetic sir

 

[`mud]

Ahhhh...Psychiatric manufacturing of afterlife realities ?
Is that scientific ??? Not in my thinking !