Reincarnation

[Matthew78]

I haven't seen any substantial, peer-reviewed scientific evidence for reincarnation.

I don't think that's ever likely to surface. I suspect that reincarnation is simply untestable.

Nor would I particularly want to be reincarnated.

I would love to be reincarnated if I could be compensated for what I never got in this life. When I was a kid and a young adult I was single and despised every second of it. When I was a kid, my life's purpose was to meet the girl of my dreams, my so-called "soulmate". I never met her. I was single most of my teen years, never went to any dances, any proms, and never got any dates. I never got a date in my twenties either. But from age 14 to 24, I was a born-again Christian so, naturally when I never met the girl of my dreams, I thought I was being punished by God for some "sin" I committed. When I couldn't figure it out, I came to conclude that God didn't love me anymore.

Being single ultimately destroyed my belief in a loving god. To this day, it's completely impossible for me to believe that I'm loved by any Abrahamic god. Being single permanently murdered such a belief. But now that my dream of meeting the girl of my dreams has been crushed, I really see no point to life anymore. I mean, what can I have now that I couldn't have had then? Nothing that I can see. I don't see any point in assigning meaning or purpose to life now that my dream from childhood was crushed.

This is where reincarnation offers me an attractive possibility. What if being single is a punishment for the wrongs of a past life? What if I have to atone for it in this life? What if I am single for the rest of my life because my past life was so bad? If I was to pay a debt in this life and had my choice of reward for healing the pain caused by a past life with good in this life, my only choice of reward would to be reincarnated in such a way that I meet the girl of my dreams at a very young age in my next life. This is so we can be childhood sweethearts, high school sweethearts, college sweethearts, and we can then finally settle down and raise a family together. This is the only possibility that brings joy to my heart and makes me happy.

If this is impossible or not likely to happen, then I see no point to living anymore.

 

[Penumbra]

I don't think that's ever likely to surface. I suspect that reincarnation is simply untestable.

I would love to be reincarnated if I could be compensated for what I never got in this life. When I was a kid and a young adult I was single and despised every second of it. When I was a kid, my life's purpose was to meet the girl of my dreams, my so-called "soulmate". I never met her. I was single most of my teen years, never went to any dances, any proms, and never got any dates. I never got a date in my twenties either. But from age 14 to 24, I was a born-again Christian so, naturally when I never met the girl of my dreams, I thought I was being punished by God for some "sin" I committed. When I couldn't figure it out, I came to conclude that God didn't love me anymore.

Being single ultimately destroyed my belief in a loving god. To this day, it's completely impossible for me to believe that I'm loved by any Abrahamic god. Being single permanently murdered such a belief. But now that my dream of meeting the girl of my dreams has been crushed, I really see no point to life anymore. I mean, what can I have now that I couldn't have had then? Nothing that I can see. I don't see any point in assigning meaning or purpose to life now that my dream from childhood was crushed.

This is where reincarnation offers me an attractive possibility. What if being single is a punishment for the wrongs of a past life? What if I have to atone for it in this life? What if I am single for the rest of my life because my past life was so bad? If I was to pay a debt in this life and had my choice of reward for healing the pain caused by a past life with good in this life, my only choice of reward would to be reincarnated in such a way that I meet the girl of my dreams at a very young age in my next life. This is so we can be childhood sweethearts, high school sweethearts, college sweethearts, and we can then finally settle down and raise a family together. This is the only possibility that brings joy to my heart and makes me happy.

If this is impossible or not likely to happen, then I see no point to living anymore.

Well, I'm not going to debate someone who has this level of emotional attachment to their beliefs. I can't see any good coming from that.

I'm sorry that things didn't work out the way you wanted them to. All I can really say is that I think it's best to make this life worth something rather than basing our reason for living on a next life or on another person like a soul mate.

I wish you all the best Matthew. Welcome to the forum, btw.

 

[Matthew78]

Well, I'm not going to debate someone who has this level of emotional attachment to their beliefs. I can't see any good coming from that.

Penumbra, don't get me wrong here- I never said that I believed that reincarnation is true. I don't know if it's true or not. I would like it to be true, obviously, but I don't have the slightly evidence that it is. I can at best hope that it happens. LIfe would really suck for me if it wasn't the case that reincarnation is true.

This is something I can't debate for the simple reason that I haven't studied the topic extensivly enough to be well-informed on the subject. That's why I would love for Otherright to present evidence for it but I have to honestly concede that perhaps there is none.

I'm sorry that things didn't work out the way you wanted them to. All I can really say is that I think it's best to make this life worth something rather than basing our reason for living on a next life or on another person like a soul mate.

I appreciate it but I have to respectfully disagree with you here. Oh well, to each, one's own.

I wish you all the best Matthew. Welcome to the forum, btw.

Thank you! I wish you all the best as well!

 

[Koldo]

Nor would I particularly want to be reincarnated.

Interesting. Would you care to say why?

 

[Storm]

I haven't seen any substantial, peer-reviewed scientific evidence for reincarnation.

What do you expect, when they haven't even figured out consciousness?

Nor would I particularly want to be reincarnated.

1) I don't think you get a choice. Either it happens, or it doesn't. Want is irrelevant.
2) Why?

 

[LuisDantas]

What do you think about the possibility of reincarnation?

I would have a deep aversion, perhaps even a strong phobia of it if I found it even slightly plausible, which I don't.

There seem to be various conceptions of it, from the utterly materialistic ones of Kardecist Spiritism to the basically poetic concepts of what I believe to be traditional Hinduism.

Not one of them is at all convincing or desirable, far as I am concerned. The inferior ones are somewhat self-evident manifestations of a desire to deny the reality of mortality, and usually come coupled with spiritual and emotional diseases. Whole belief systems are plagued by them, most unfortunately. On the other extreme, the most healthy conceptions of reincarnation are also, not surprisingly, the most ethereal and ultimately meaningless.

That is only to be expected, since after all reincarnation is the idea that beings reincarnate. Such an idea is self-denying, for beings can't possibly transcend their very essence, and human beings are very much the result of many simultaneous causes, most of which actually die or at least change deeply long before the body itself does.

I personally believe that belief in reincarnation is a mistake that some traditions didn't quite manage to warn against despite their best intentions. It can't very well be anything else.

 

[jarofthoughts]

No, but it's an indication of something going on. It's just a matter of figuring out what.

For example, as a kid, I used to claim that I was born a rat. A person looking for evidence of reincarnation would claim that this is a possible indication that I was a rat in a past life. However, I do actually remember why I said this: I really liked the funny rat character from Charlette's Web, and wanted to identify with him.

And you've just explained why "research" based solely on hearsay and anecdotes is less than useful. People make up stuff, forget things, add things, are coerced and influenced by others, and before you know it, separating the facts from the fiction becomes impossible.
It's the same as with aliens, bigfoot and ghosts. There is no lack of people wanting to tell you their story, but at the end of the day, unless you've got something tangible and testable, it all amounts to nothing much.

 

[Koldo]

I would have a deep aversion, perhaps even a strong phobia of it if I found it even slightly plausible, which I don't.

Why would you be afraid?
Or rather, what would you be afraid of?

 

[LuisDantas]

Why would you be afraid?
Or rather, what would you be afraid of?

Of dealing with reincarnated people, I guess. But truly, I am more disgusted by the idea than actually afraid of it. Reincarnation is defended with such gusto, conviction and passion by so many people with such ignorance and moral frailty here in these lands that I have developed physical repulsion to the very concept.

I have seen many people rely on God instead of attempting to actually become better people. But Spiritists are in fact much worse. Their whole set of beliefs is a fraud, a lazy hope that they will exist for so many lifes as they need with much the same personality and ego. That breeds arrogance and moral vice as a matter of course, and it shows. Spiritism is proud to claim that it is "not a religion", and indeed it is not. It is a disease.

 

[zenzero]

Friend Otherright,

Reincarnation

Plain & simple!
Everything [matter] according to science are nothing but vibrations and matter is also energy which changes form and that change is what reincarnation is all about.

Love & rgds

 

[Penumbra]

What do you expect, when they haven't even figured out consciousness?

If there's not evidence for it, I don't see why I should believe it. The concept doesn't seem to jive well with modern conceptions of how the brain functions with our personality and memories and such.

And if there are people who claim to remember past lives, then this should conceivably be testable and provable.

1) I don't think you get a choice. Either it happens, or it doesn't. Want is irrelevant.
2) Why?

Interesting. Would you care to say why?

To both:

I realize want is irrelevant when it comes to truth. But I'm just pointing out that it's not like I'm saying, "I don't think it happens, and we should be sad about it." or something similar.

I don't really see a need for reincarnation. One life is pretty neat, but I don't particularly desire to keep coming back.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

Yes reincarnation exists and happens to all. I believe it to the extent of being just short of knowing it.

 

[Riverwolf]

And you've just explained why "research" based solely on hearsay and anecdotes is less than useful.

I know. I was trying to.

 

[Riverwolf]

LOL. Great! That is the absolutely worst reference you could've given me. Well since that industry was how I got my start, I don't need that as an example.

If you actually worked in the industry, you should know better than me what my point is.

 

[The Wizard]

It's intriguing and mysterious, but have to admit I don't get it. I only ponder its aspects, but have nothing against the concepts personally, imo

 

[Vinayaka]

There are quite a few misconceptions generated about this topic, in my opinion. Firstly, the personality doesn't reincarnate. it is just the soul, and the eternal Self within the soul that reincarnates.

We are a series of bodies, or sheaths. The outermost is the physical body. That's all it is ... the physical body. Next inside that is the intellectual/ego/astral body. That's where we dream from. Its basically an etheric copy of our physical body. It contains this personality, this ego.

Yet further inside is a soul body. Its a body of light, humanoid in shape, but more like those guys from Close encounters. From this body intuition and direct cognition operate. This is all that reincarnates, firstly into a new physical body, inside the womb at some point in time. The astral or intellectual body grows as as the physical body grows. Little children don't have all that congested intellect, emotional insecurity and all that we adults have. The new intellectual body and ego has to grow along.

The physical body and the astral body do not reincarnate. So anyone hoping they (they meaning the ego/personality) will come back are SOL. But one of the primary differences between east and west is who we are, or better, who we perceive we are. In the East, we are souls with physical bodies. In the west we're physical bodies or egos with souls. Eastern people tend to view life as a string of lives.

When we die, we at first enter into the second world, or astral plane, astral body intact, but within time, it too drops off, memories fade, attachments fade, and once again we are just the soul, and the Self (essence) within that. Then we are ready to pick out or have chosen for us another physical body.

We could be so clouded as to choose a mammal, but that's as far as that one goes. Insects, birds, vegetables, are all different vibrations, call them souls if you wish, but these souls we are cannot use those physicals as temporal homes. Where that myth got started, I don't know. A lot of hearsay gets started by others critical of the faith in reincarnation in an attempt top make it appear less logical.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

There are quite a few misconceptions generated about this topic, in my opinion. Firstly, the personality doesn't reincarnate. it is just the soul, and the eternal Self within the soul that reincarnates.

We are a series of bodies, or sheaths. The outermost is the physical body. That's all it is ... the physical body. Next inside that is the intellectual/ego/astral body. That's where we dream from. Its basically an etheric copy of our physical body. It contains this personality, this ego.

Yet further inside is a soul body. Its a body of light, humanoid in shape, but more like those guys from Close encounters. From this body intuition and direct cognition operate. This is all that reincarnates, firstly into a new physical body, inside the womb at some point in time. The astral or intellectual body grows as as the physical body grows. Little children don't have all that congested intellect, emotional insecurity and all that we adults have. The new intellectual body and ego has to grow along.

The physical body and the astral body do not reincarnate. So anyone hoping they (they meaning the ego/personality) will come back are SOL. But one of the primary differences between east and west is who we are, or better, who we perceive we are. In the East, we are souls with physical bodies. In the west we're physical bodies or egos with souls. Eastern people tend to view life as a string of lives.

When we die, we at first enter into the second world, or astral plane, astral body intact, but within time, it too drops off, memories fade, attachments fade, and once again we are just the soul, and the Self (essence) within that. Then we are ready to pick out or have chosen for us another physical body.

We could be so clouded as to choose a mammal, but that's as far as that one goes. Insects, birds, vegetables, are all different vibrations, call them souls if you wish, but these souls we are cannot use those physicals as temporal homes. Where that myth got started, I don't know. A lot of hearsay gets started by others critical of the faith in reincarnation in an attempt top make it appear less logical.

Your beliefs are similar to mine but the third body you talk about is called the causal body or the body where that creates ideas and thoughts. The astral body keeps the ego in my belief and is the very reason we reincarnate into a physical body. The whole reason we reincarnate is because we have desires to come back and swirling energy in our spines that draw us back to earth or any material planet that is in line with our karma.

When we die we let go of this body but our astral body lives on with the ego we die with. Depending on our karma and level of spiritual awareness also will determine what astral sphere you are allowed to venture. Most people can travel by light and live how they want to in peace, but some evil people are confined in darker realms where they must work out and contemplate the evil they have done. So the difference in our beliefs is that the ego does go in with the astral body. Why else would we reincarnate?

 

[Storm]

I'd like to do an unofficial poll of my fellow believers in reincarnation.

Do you believe that
1) The personality is simply transported to a new body, or
2) the personality is at least in part mortal?

Follow up questions, based on your answer to the above:
1) If that's the case, why doesn't everyone remember their past lives in detail?
2) What precisely goes on to the new life?

Will answer myself once I've gotten a few responses.

 

[Storm]

If there's not evidence for it, I don't see why I should believe it. The concept doesn't seem to jive well with modern conceptions of how the brain functions with our personality and memories and such.

Oh, I wasn't trying to convert you! :sorry1:

Just making conversation.

And if there are people who claim to remember past lives, then this should conceivably be testable and provable.

It should, but I believe such memories are either cries for attention or delusion.

I realize want is irrelevant when it comes to truth. But I'm just pointing out that it's not like I'm saying, "I don't think it happens, and we should be sad about it." or something similar.

I don't really see a need for reincarnation. One life is pretty neat, but I don't particularly desire to keep coming back.

Ah, ok. I thought you were saying something stronger.

 

[Kriya Yogi]

I'd like to do an unofficial poll of my fellow believers in reincarnation.

Do you believe that
1) The personality is simply transported to a new body, or
2) the personality is at least in part mortal?

I believe the personality is the ego and is transported from physical body to astral body and back until the ego is merged with the omnipresent divine consciousness. Once that happens we express God in our own way, just as Jesus and the many other saints do in their own way. Personality is immortal because it is ever changing. The ego is never really lost, it just becomes purified and expands.

Follow up questions:
1) If that's the case, why doesn't everyone remember their past lives in detail?

This was God's plan because he allows everyone the free will to live how they desire. If everyone saw that their soul lives a string of lives they would immediately go into depression and wouldn't be able to live with their past actions and constant repetitive mistakes. We would become drossy knowing that our soul is very old and has lived this very same life the same way over and over again. Therefore God allows us to have a clean slate.

2) What precisely goes on to the new life?

Everything but the physical body. The astral body is the next sheath below the physical body. This astral body carries the 30 cross currents of ego. Where we get our personality and karma from. The difference in the astral world and this physical world is everything is composed of free flowing light. It is less confined and not stagnant light. Therefore we are disease free and can materialize anything we want with light. We can also talk telepathically and travel on waves light from one astral sphere to the next. This astral life is much longer than a physical life, but eventually if we are not God realized and have desires we must reincarnate to a physical body that runs in line with our karma. Our memory is then wiped clean and we start over hoping to finally figure out this riddle of life, death and rebirth. Through soul intuition and God guidance we will eventually figure out that the goal of life is not to feed into our earthly desires but to merge once again with the divine consciousness which is God. This bliss within ourselves is the heaven we all must find eventually. Then and only then will we absorb all of our desires in the sea of bliss that is in God's presence and never have to reincarnate to a disease riddled and suffering causing planet. Your soul will be free at last.