Relationship between Judaism and Christianity

[outhouse]

Overall, I agree with what you said, but I do have some questions.

Give it my best shot. Because you asked great questions.

So what role do you think the Pharisees played in this?

Mixed role. It was a divided sect. You had those open and accepting, and others pious and against what they viewed as perversion of Judaism.

Some mirrored the Zealots, and some the Hellenist.

What was their "realm of power" during that time?

Depends on where, what geographic location, and who, as the sect was diverse.


Some used Roman muscle to extort tithes out of peasants.


Some were very pious to traditional Jewish law.


Galilean villages they would not have played a large role at all, as compared to Jerusalem.

Sepphoris, is actually unknown exactly what role they played.


Some aspects of your question cannot be answered fully.

I read the other day that the Pharisees lost prominence after the revolution, and basically faded out,

Nope.

After the fall of the temple, it was they who rebuilt Judaism.

but how prominent and powerful were they in comparison to the Sadducees at this time?

After the fall, the Sadduces were done and gone. fell off and out of history.

So you believe Paul was hired by the Sadducees (or Pharisees?) to murder Christian leaders?

Possibly both, as both ran the Sanhedrin.

Protecting the temple, and their income and their lives. They knew they were living on the edge, and if they could not keep peace, the Romans would mow them over as they did. They knew Jesus actions were viewed as a selfless act and he was martyred. They did not need a repeat of what happened.

The only reason the Romans left the temple standing anyway, was because it was a cash cow, generating tons of money.

Jesus attacked the corrupt Hellenistic Jews due to Roman influence, greed and power. They were more Hellenist then Jews in my opinion. They used a required temple coin made of a trusted more pure silver content, that had a Hellenistic pagan deity Melqart on it. This alone would tick off pious Jews as this was gods house, not Melqarts. 48? Pious Jews had already sacrificed themselves and were burned alive removing Herods eagle, a pagan sign.

In your opinion, would this imply a connection, in whatever manner, between Paul and the established Jewish bureaucracy of the time.

Unknown.

Or was Paul just a common,random hired "hitman/criminal" tasked with a job to do?

Unknown.


I think he had connections, as he was well educated and well educated in Hellenistic Judaism. I think, well we know he was hired as a hitman. This was a brutal time and Paul is sorry for being brutal afterwards. And he would not focus on his wrong doing other then the apologies he had given. He did not go out and shake their hands for being a threat to all of Jersusalem.


There is also some later pseudepigrapha that describes Paul as being attached to the temple anmd being rejected by one of leaders daughters or somthing like that. It is so late I dont believe it has any historicity.

So you agree with Roger that Paul went to preach to the gentiles because his message was rejected by the Jews.

First it was not Pauls message. The message or good news was already in circulation, and their was already many teachers in the Diaspora.

His message was not rejected, it was not his message. And he did not take it there to be rejected.

It found no popularity in Judaism to try and proselytize to it.

Paul taught to the Gentiles because Hellenistic Judaism had been spreading for hundred of years, and this was a great chance to divorce Judaism and use the one all powerful god as they wished, while not having to worship the Emperor as "son of god'


The message was rejected by Jews
The message had already been in Helleistic gentile communities.
Paul did preach to gentiles.

The wording however needed a bit nore attention to details.

 

[outhouse]

Paul changed his mind, had a change of heart, when he realized this movement was not a threat to the temple.

Paul woke up, and figured out it was a Hellenistic movement, divorcing Judaism.

He realized the mythology was spread all through the Empire, and was following a new type of Judaism that had somewhat already been in place, this was the last and final perversion that divorced Judaism.

 

[Zardoz]

When will it start to incercede on behalf of the palestin..oh wait it wont because it's because of silly Judaism that they're being persecuted in the first place.

Fine, we'll go up to the temple mount... oh, wait...

 

[Estro Felino]

Paul changed his mind, had a change of heart, when he realized this movement was not a threat to the temple.

Paul woke up, and figured out it was a Hellenistic movement, divorcing Judaism.

He realized the mythology was spread all through the Empire, and was following a new type of Judaism that had somewhat already been in place, this was the last and final perversion that divorced Judaism.

All right, let's say that we Christians created Christianity because we wanted to unify Judaism and Paganism into a new religion.

What would be wrong with that?

 

[nash8]

It's more so the opposite. Christianity was it's own distinct sect/branch of Judaism that become it's own religion, and incorporated aspects of Paganism over time in order to make it more accessible to the masses; at least according to the scholars.

I personally thing Christianity, or at least what Jesus actually taught, had more in common with some forms of paganism than most give it credit for. Specifically the Pagan mystery religions, which in my opinion, have different language and descriptions, but essentially express the same idea. That pretty much goes for all religions for that matter in my opinion, the more esoteric offshoots of mainstream religions just do a better job of expressing this concept due to their focus on the essence rather than the dogma.

 

[outhouse]

All right, let's say that we Christians created Christianity because we wanted to unify Judaism and Paganism into a new religion.

What would be wrong with that?

They did not unify anything though.

They perverted the single god concept adding more powers through a "son of god" the Emperor already had title to.

Basically, a people wanted a new religion because they did not to be labeled as a Jew, which after the fall of the temple were known trouble makers to the Empire. So the created one.

Nothing wrong with it. Jews did the same thing to the Canaanite religion. Islam did the same thing to the bible. Its just how religions evolve.

 

[outhouse]

It's more so the opposite. Christianity was it's own distinct sect/branch of Judaism that become it's own religion, and incorporated aspects of Paganism over time in order to make it more accessible to the masses; at least according to the scholars.

Yes.

what Jesus actually taught, had more in common with some forms of paganism than most give it credit for.

gross ignorance on the topic.

he was a Jew, a typical Galilean Jew, who were known to be pious.

the Pagan mystery religions, which in my opinion, have different language and descriptions, but essentially express the same idea.

What you dont know, is they adopted aspects of the abrahamic religions, not the other way around.

Christianity did absorb many aspects form Hellenistic religions, but many of thee had been in place for thousands of years.

Mystery religions cannot be used in any way, because so little is known about them.