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Relationship between Judaism and Christianity

Dirty Penguin

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony
Levite said:
Christianity and antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Anti-Judaism in early Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Jewish deicide - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Rhineland massacres - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Blood libel - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Host desecration - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Medieval antisemitism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Martin Luther - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Pogrom - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Judensau - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Spanish Inquisition - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Yes.
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Thanks...I just didn't have the energy anymore to respond to his misconceptions...
 
roger1440

roger1440

I do stuff
xkatz said:
There is no denying I have a soft spot for Christianity (especially traditional Orthodoxy and Catholicism), or that Christians are generally good people like any other...

However, the problem arises when people try to equate Christianity with being Jewish. To Christians, yes they may see themselves as spiritual sucessors to Judaism via Jesus. However, in the eyes of Judaism and Jewish Law, being Christian =/= being Jewish. Judaism dictates it's own rules, and how Christians understand theology has no bearing on how Jews should define themselves and vice versa.
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In all likelihood Christianity started as a sect within Judaism. As this sect departed from the time and place of its origin it became more and more unlike Judaism. Since this new sect did not gain wide appeal from the majority of Jews, the original beliefs may have changed to accommodate the influx of Gentiles. Logic would dictate, the more something changes, the more it’s unlike its original form. It is because of the rejection of Paul’s message, Paul went to the Gentiles.


In Paul’s own words:
“Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.” (Acts 13:46)

“But when they opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them, "Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."” (Acts 18:6)
​
 
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blueman

blueman

God's Warrior
Hay85 said:
I thought it would be interesting to see what Christians think about Jews and vice-versa.

I just want to clarify one thing: a Christian, by definition, is already Jewish. Because Christians have never disclaimed the Tanakh, also known as Old Testament and they have never changed a word of it.
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Little confused of your definition of a Christian. Christian is not defined by Jew or Gentile, but the Gospel was given to everyone and repentence, acceptance and following Jesus for who He is and what He has done makes one a Christian. It is not an intellectual faith nor is it one inherited by a given race or ethnic group. God does not promote favortism as it relates to salvation (Romans 2:5-9)
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
roger1440 said:
In all likelihood Christianity started as a sect within Judaism.
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Yes and no.

You need to be more specific.


Jesus was a jew, who taught Judaism native to his geographic location.

That movement died, with his death.

Jesus death however was martyred, and the people that found importance in his death were not typical Jews, but Proselyte Hellenist who wanted to worship one god, but did everything possible to not be labeled a Jew.

They avoided Judaism at different levels depending on which community was doing the worshipping. GMarks community not so much, while Gmatthews community wanted to hold Judaism a little closer.

And there were arguments about how close Judaism should be held. Thus we have Pauls epistles from his community.


As this sect departed from the time and place of its origin it became more and more unlike Judaism.
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Dead wrong.


As these multiple sects everywhere began to grow, they were already far removed from Judaism as they were never born and raised oppressed Jews. They were Proselytes and Gentiles who were never fully Jewish to begin with.


Since this new sect did not gain wide appeal from the majority of Jews
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There was no majority. This is a misunderstanding of first century Judaism, that was very divided and diverse with 4 major sects, all with different views.



, the original beliefs may have changed to accommodate the influx of Gentiles.
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No

The mythology grew, and gentiles found importance in it.

Logic would dictate, the more something changes, the more it’s unlike its original form.
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Yes the movement evolved as mythology grew.


It is because of the rejection of Paul’s message, Paul went to the Gentiles.
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This is a complete misunderstanding of everything associated with early Christianity.

It not only makes no sense, it just did not happen that way.
 
nash8

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
outhouse said:
This is a complete misunderstanding of everything associated with early Christianity.

It not only makes no sense, it just did not happen that way.
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What do you make of Roger's quote of Acts that state just the contrary?
 
outhouse

outhouse

Atheistically
nash8 said:
What do you make of Roger's quote of Acts that state just the contrary?
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There were different levels of Hellenistic Proselytes.

One could simple swear off other deities, and start following the "lord" the one god, and be considered Jewish.

Judaism in the first century takes a book to explain and one would not have a complete view of it.

And im sure there was heat between the Jewish establishment like the Sadducees and this new group.

Why do you think they hired Paul to go out and murder its leaders?


There is no debate this movement was not accepted by Jews, and that Paul went to gentiles to teach.
 
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paarsurrey

paarsurrey

Veteran Member
roger1440
In Paul’s own words:
“Then Paul and Barnabas answered them boldly: "We had to speak the word of God to you first. Since you reject it and do not consider yourselves worthy of eternal life, we now turn to the Gentiles.” (Acts 13:46)

“But when they opposed Paul and became abusive, he shook out his clothes in protest and said to them,"Your blood be on your own heads! I am innocent of it. From now on I will go to the Gentiles."” (Acts 18:6)
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nash8 said:
What do you make of Roger's quote of Acts that state just the contrary?
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Your endorsement of roger1440 and his quotation of Acts is correct.
I appreciate it.

Regards
 
Zardoz

Zardoz

Wonderful Wizard
Premium Member
Quatermass said:
All religions are essentially the same: They're all guilt with different holidays.
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Blanket statements are inherently false.

Judaism is not the same. Name another religion that intercedes on behalf of all of humanity, not just for it's own practitioners.
 
nash8

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
outhouse said:
There were different levels of Hellenistic Proselytes.

One could simple swear off other deities, and start following the "lord" the one god, and be considered Jewish.

Judaism in the first century takes a book to explain and one would not have a complete view of it.

And im sure there was heat between the Jewish establishment like the Sadducees and this new group.
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Overall, I agree with what you said, but I do have some questions.

So what role do you think the Pharisees played in this? What was their "realm of power" during that time? I read the other day that the Pharisees lost prominence after the revolution, and basically faded out, but how prominent and powerful were they in comparison to the Sadducees at this time?



Why do you think they hired Paul to go out and murder its leaders?
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So you believe Paul was hired by the Sadducees (or Pharisees?) to murder Christian leaders? In your opinion, would this imply a connection, in whatever manner, between Paul and the established Jewish bureaucracy of the time. Or was Paul just a common,random hired "hitman/criminal" tasked with a job to do?

There is no debate this movement was not accepted by Jews, and that Paul went to gentiles to teach.
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So you agree with Roger that Paul went to preach to the gentiles because his message was rejected by the Jews. ;)
 
Mycroft

Mycroft

Ministry of Serendipity
Zardoz said:
Name another religion that intercedes on behalf of all of humanity, not just for it's own practitioners.
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When will it start to incercede on behalf of the palestin..oh wait it wont because it's because of silly Judaism that they're being persecuted in the first place.
 
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