Religion and Chauvinism

[Mr Nice]

Good morning to you all,

Judaism, Christianity and Islam (the big 3) all predict chaos, death and destruction at the end of the world. If this does not occur, the scripture is wrong. So, can we, as humans, dispel religion and work towards preventing this chaos?

To be religious, in a sense, unless I am wrong, you must accept the destructive outcome above. For most religious people; the ability to avoid such a horrific prediction, requires the abandonment of their faith. And the abandonment of faith - is worse than death...

Does Religion lead to Chauvinism and therefore Fanaticism and therefore war?


CHAUVINISM

Chauvinism (wikipedia), in its original and primary meaning, is an exaggerated, bellicose partriotism and a belligerent belief in national superiority and glory. By extension, it has come to include an extreme and unreasoning partisanship on behalf of any group to which one belongs, especially when the partisanship includes malice and hatred towards rival groups.​

Many religious groups have "an extreme and unreasoning partisanship" due to absolute believe in their faith. It is the "malice and hatred towards rival groups" that contradicts their faiths, however, is so prevalent in religion.

Fanaticism (wikipedia)- is a belief or behaviour involving uncritical zeal, particularly for an extreme religious or political cause​

I think you will find many religious folk have this 'uncritical zeal' about their God, the Scripture and their religion.


CAN WE SEPARATE CHAUVINISM AND RELIGION

Can we breakdown the 'unreasoning partisanship' in Religion?
When these groups are so adamant that their faith is true and the other is false.

Can we avoid the 'malice and hatred' towards rival groups?
When we have conflicts such as israel/Palestine, US/Iran, Mali, Syria, Lebanon to name a few.

All religions preach to 'love thy neighbour'...
But they all acknowledge that we are inferior and incapable not to sin. Therefore is appears. Doomed...


What are you thoughts, if any, on the end of days. Will it be caused by the religions themselves. Will those who fight and kill in the name of Allah or God be forgiven. Or will the faithful be judged as if they have lost their faith and go to hell.

An inspired Atheist. Interested in your opinions…

If Religion + Chauvinism = Fanaticism... it does not take a genius to predict a massive war...

Mr Nice:help:

 

[Lady Guidance]

A catastrophe can occur any day or time. If the last meteor hit the earth we could have all been affected. So many people have predicted the end of the world and it has all yet to happen. I'm sure there will be another large war, look around.

 

[Mr Nice]

Well. Yes. Life on earth must finish one day.
Can we prevent it from being a religious war?

I am an atheist. So I say yes.

Can you be a Muslim, Christian or Jew and not believe that the end of days will relate to a religious war?

Does religion, with this prediction, in some way justify religious wars as it is predicted...
In a way, they will justify their fight in the name of God/Allah as it is in their scripture and it is coming?

As above. As an Atheist I don't believe a religious war is necessary. Someone faithful to these religions cannot believe this is true. it is necessary for their faith to be true.

 

[Breathe]

Judaism, Christianity and Islam (the big 3)

There are more than these 3. There are religions bigger than Judaism.

If this does not occur, the scripture is wrong.

Not necessarily.

So, can we, as humans, dispel religion and work towards preventing this chaos?

No.

To be religious, in a sense, unless I am wrong, you must accept the destructive outcome above.

You're wrong.

For most religious people; the ability to avoid such a horrific prediction, requires the abandonment of their faith. And the abandonment of faith - is worse than death...

Nonsense.

Does Religion lead to Chauvinism and therefore Fanaticism and therefore war?

No and no and no.

I think you will find many religious folk have this 'uncritical zeal' about their God, the Scripture and their religion.

Not unusual. Many atheists are fanatical anti-religionists.

CAN WE SEPARATE CHAUVINISM AND RELIGION

Yes.

Can we breakdown the 'unreasoning partisanship' in Religion?
When these groups are so adamant that their faith is true and the other is false.

Yes. Universalism.

Can we avoid the 'malice and hatred' towards rival groups?

Ideal but difficult. Human nature. Humans love conflict. We're tribal.

All religions preach to 'love thy neighbour'...
But they all acknowledge that we are inferior and incapable not to sin. Therefore is appears. Doomed...

Wrong.

What are you thoughts, if any, on the end of days.

Metaphorical.

Will it be caused by the religions themselves.

No.

Will those who fight and kill in the name of Allah or God be forgiven. Or will the faithful be judged as if they have lost their faith and go to hell.

I don't believe in Hell.

 

[Pegg]

People will use religion to go to war, thats an unavoidable fact. And religious people will support war because their religions are very much tied with their governments. In democratic nations, this is even moreso because most people are religious and therefore most government officials belong to some religion.

Anyway, unfortunately the war you are speaking about is inevitable. However when it occurs, God will step in to put a stop to it because the nations will be the ones going to war and no one except the Almighty God will be able to stop them. We can be thankful that he doesnt take sides in wars and for that reason, he will stop them and they will find themselves on the wrong side of the law.
And when that day arrives, Jesus words will ring true: "he who lives by the sword will die by the sword"

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Good morning to you all,

Judaism, Christianity and Islam (the big 3) all predict chaos, death and destruction at the end of the world. If this does not occur, the scripture is wrong. So, can we, as humans, dispel religion and work towards preventing this chaos?

To be religious, in a sense, unless I am wrong, you must accept the destructive outcome above.

You are wrong.

 

[Murkve]

Good morning to you all,

Judaism, Christianity and Islam (the big 3) all predict chaos, death and destruction at the end of the world. If this does not occur, the scripture is wrong. So, can we, as humans, dispel religion and work towards preventing this chaos?

To be religious, in a sense, unless I am wrong, you must accept the destructive outcome above. For most religious people; the ability to avoid such a horrific prediction, requires the abandonment of their faith. And the abandonment of faith - is worse than death...

Surely you must agree that, sooner or later, everything must change and be destroyed? Buildings will eventually crumble and go into disrepair. Mountains will erode to sand. Humans will get sick, grow old, frail, and die. This Earth, will eventually be destroyed by its own facilitator or life - the Sun. All that has arisen and will arise, must eventually perish.

The myriad of religious experience is one way humans cope with this fact. However, it is a fact. It stands independent of human experience and religion. Abandoning religion will do nothing to counteract it.

 

[Mr Nice]

Yes. Agree. I'm an atheist. I am asking the religious if they believe a religious war is inevitable. If so, what can they do to avoid it - e.g. allow us to live our existence and die from non-religuous means. Seems to be a topic avoided as it is a little taboo.

If half the world was Muslim. And half the world was Christian/Jews. Will we be able to avoid a religious war?

Most muslims I speak to believe there will be religious wars. The scripture states:

The time will not come until Muslims will fight the Jews (and kill them); until the Jews hide behind rocks and trees, which will cry: O Muslim! there is a Jew hiding behind me, come on and kill him! This will not apply to the Gharqad, which is a Jewish tree (cited by Bukhari and Muslim).

Muslims believe they will not be the aggressor.
Many Christians also believe a great war will come.

So. This is not about being negative. Is is questioning if we can remove the 'unreasoning partisanship' (chauvinism) from religion. Or in other words; can religious people truly accept each other as equal and form one tolerant community?

What can people do to be more accepting of one another?
What can individual people do (noting we often feel powerless as individuals) - to assist to avoid religious wars?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Yes. Agree. I'm an atheist. I am asking the religious if they believe a religious war is inevitable.

Rubbish. Given ...

To be religious, in a sense, unless I am wrong, you must accept the destructive outcome above. For most religious people; the ability to avoid such a horrific prediction, requires the abandonment of their faith. And the abandonment of faith - is worse than death...

... you are arrogantly and ignorantly telling us what we must believe. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Mr Nice]

Thats OK. I'm happy to be called arrogant. I'm simply curious.

You are Jewish. What do you think about the scripture quote above?
Do you not believe that Islam predicts a future war with Jews?

Prefer to be wrong on this one... But beyond wrong - I am more interested in your view on the scripture.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Thats OK. I'm happy to be called arrogant. I'm simply curious.

You are Jewish. What do you think about the scripture quote above?

Again, you've already told me what I must believe. How can I possibly teach you anything? Why should I try or, for that matter, care?

But, for what it's worth, I am an member of a Reform Jewish synagogue. I attend services Friday and Saturday. I'm heavily involved in its Religious and Social Action commission. I'm occasionally called upon to lead Torah Study. I travel with synagogue members to Israel ...

... and I personally no of no one, NO ONE, who believes what you proclaim we must believe. How strange ...

 

[Mr Nice]

Well happy to take that one back.

I cant find anything that indicates Jewish faith believes the war that that Quran predicts. So I will retract my statement on your side and admit I was wrong. I have finished reading the Quran and most of the Bible but not started on other scripture. I wont claim to know Judaism and the variations to the faith.

However. I have had the conversation with Muslims who also get offended yet tell me this war is inevitable. That the Jews will be the aggressors. That Christians and Muslims will come together and kill the Jews.

Do I believe this. No.

But I am interested to see your opinion as to whether the groups of people can live in harmony whilst these predictions exist.

So without being offensive. What is required to enable Jews and Muslims to co-exist?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

But I am interested to see your opinion as to whether the groups of people can live in harmony whilst these predictions exist.

Sorry - I do not believe that you are interested in anything of the kind. Rather, I believe that you are interested in a rhetorical attack on Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. You are simply not particularly good at it.

 

[Mr Nice]

Well. No. I am pretty honest when I say that I think Religion breads chauvinism. But I have been wrong about many things. I also think that chauvinism is inevitable in many groups e.g. sports, races, countries etc. Happy to add atheists.

So. If you read between the lines, I am more interested in whether the groups can actually intermingle and respect each other. Join the divide so to speak. Treat each other as equal and work towards an end to religious wars (and prevent future ones). So if the reference to chauvinism seems extreme, I believe it is natural within humans - dangerous when mixed with religion (mostly due to size of the groups - bit different to a fight at a soccer match).

I know the post is asking for criticism of me. But if there was no chauvinism within religion, I don't think religious wars would exist.

Question is simply about whether we can overcome the worst of human traits and have harmony within these religions.

 

[Breathe]

Wars exist because we're human. If you take away religion, there's still plenty to fight over. A large number of 'religious wars' are way more complex than 'Me Muslim. Him Jew. Kill!', although the very notion that it's not so simple often offends the most hardcore of anti-religionists.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Question is simply about whether we can overcome the worst of human traits and have harmony within these religions.

See:

• The Golden Age of Jewish Culrure in Spain
• History of the Jews in Morocco
• Iftar in the Synagogue

 

[Falvlun]

Wars exist because we're human. If you take away religion, there's still plenty to fight over. A large number of 'religious wars' are way more complex than 'Me Muslim. Him Jew. Kill!', although the very notion that it's not so simple often offends the most hardcore of anti-religionists.

I do think that religion often provides an easy way to motivate a large number of people, and the motivation is often larger than other things (since the stakes are greater.)

So, while often there are other factors leading to wars between religious factions, I believe it is reasonable to point out that religion has played a large role in providing the momentum in these wars.

 

[WyattDerp]

You are wrong.

Arguments, not flat assertions. Unless you were going for irony?

 

[Breathe]

I do think that religion often provides an easy way to motivate a large number of people, and the motivation is often larger than other things (since the stakes are greater.)

So, while often there are other factors leading to wars between religious factions, I believe it is reasonable to point out that religion has played a large role in providing the momentum in these wars.

Even where religion has been used in support of war, most frequently, it's political, national, ethnic, racial, economical, and more; religion just providing a unified identity -- but then, so do ethnic, political, racial, national, and more.

Japan's aggressions against China in WWII had nothing to do with the religious beliefs of Japan, for example, but more to do with the way the Japanese saw themselves. Neither did the Hutu or Tutsi of Rwanda, nor the Korean war, nor Laos, or the DR Congo's massacre of Pygmy tribes, and so on.

The overall result of all wars, however, is humanity. Every war in human history has had humans involved.

 

[WyattDerp]

Japan's aggressions against China in WWII had nothing to do with the religious beliefs of Japan, for example, but more to do with the way the Japanese saw themselves.

That's like saying "this recipe doesn't contain oranges, it rather contains fruit".

Shinto - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The islands of Japan are to be considered a paradise as they were directly created by the gods for the people of Japan, and were ordained by the higher spirits to be created into the Japanese empire. Shinto is the fundamental connection between the power and beauty of nature (the land) and the people of Japan. It is the manifestation of a path to understanding the institution of divine power.

Sounds great, can get ugly.