Religion and Lore: What started it...

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But I don't think its possible for someone to very happily accept, being hanged on the cross for such logic.

Exactly who do you think HAPPILY accepted crucifixion?

... or ACCEPTED it at all? Usually, when a person is executed, his own opinion is irrelevant.

 

[chinu]

Exactly who do you think HAPPILY accepted crucifixion?

Jesus.

... or ACCEPTED it at all? Usually, when a person is executed, his own opinion is irrelevant.

Am not talking about any opinion.

 

[Willamena]

Exactly who do you think HAPPILY accepted crucifixion?

Each of us.

 

[Sunstone]

Hypethetically if we go back to the beginning of when there is no religion, no concept of beings that you cannot see...wouldnt the first person to announce such an idea be ridiculed and shut down straight away?

I think there was most likely no period in the history of Homo sapiens when our species was anything less than religious. Religiosity in one form or another seems to arise from within us, from our genes.

For instance, we genetically inherit Agent Detection, Theory of Mind, respect for elders, causal reasoning, and other ways of thinking and/or responding to the world that seem very likely to give rise to much of our religiosity.

 

[Skwim]

Hypethetically if we go back to the beginning of when there is no religion, no concept of beings that you cannot see...wouldnt the first person to announce such an idea be ridiculed and shut down straight away?

Not if he promised all kinds of good stuff would accrue to anyone who believed him. Just like today. And this would be a particularly easy sell in a world where virtually none of its workings were understood.

 

[Cephus]

I think there was most likely no period in the history of Homo sapiens when our species was anything less than religious. Religiosity in one form or another seems to arise from within us, from our genes.

To be honest, I don't buy that. We know that humans are genetically predisposed to seek answers and see patterns where none exist, we simply do not like not knowing things and this has given us the unfortunate predilection to just inventing answers if actual solutions are not readily available. That's where religion and religious beliefs came from. we're not predisposed specifically toward religion, religion is a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

Religion came from god. It only makes sense that the all-powerful creator and master of our vast universe decided that a few members of a primitive species floating on a tiny speck around one, tiny star were important enough to be given the knowledge of true religion. It also only makes sense that the tenets and persepctives of this religion just so happen to coincide with the behaviors and perspectives of this primitive species, and that God decided to only reveal the all-important news of this religion to only a few members of this species, while remaining undetectable to every other member of this species.

 

[Skwim]

To be honest, I don't buy that. We know that humans are genetically predisposed to seek answers and see patterns where none exist, we simply do not like not knowing things and this has given us the unfortunate predilection to just inventing answers if actual solutions are not readily available.

They've actually found this "answer seeking" gene? Is it anywhere near the "fight or flight" gene, or the "carnal desire" gene?

That's where religion and religious beliefs came from. we're not predisposed specifically toward religion, religion is a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.

So this "disease" is what, our propensity to continually trying to find answers?



Hmmm. sounds a bit suspicious.

 

[Sunstone]

We know that humans are genetically predisposed to seek answers and see patterns where none exist....

Yes, I think that's part of it. But I believe you need to go further than that, read up on the genetically inherited traits of Agent Detection, Theory of Mind, etc. There might be as many as twenty or so brain modules and thought patterns fundamentally involved in human religiosity.

Here's a brief Wiki article that might help you get started. But it's no more than that: Just a start.

...we simply do not like not knowing things and this has given us the unfortunate predilection to just inventing answers if actual solutions are not readily available.

So far as I know, that theory of religion's origins traces back to Edward Tylor, writing largely in the 1800s. A lot has been discovered about human psychology since then.

That's where religion and religious beliefs came from. we're not predisposed specifically toward religion, religion is a symptom of the disease, not the disease itself.

I often wish that view was correct. It would make managing the negative effects of human religiosity so much easier, as religiosity would be much less entrenched in us. But I've come to thoroughly doubt that view is correct.

 

[dgirl1986]

Fear of death and the refusal to let go of those who passed could cause such beliefs to grow to ease the suffering.

This is a good point. What is the buddhist view on death?

It's a mix of imagination and perception. When the first signs of definite religion appear in cave paintings and carvings, those people were exactly as evolved as we are today. Just as intelligent and capable of processing the same levels of information.

Take away traffic, cities, and pretty much every human you know except for a dozen, maybe a few dozen for a large band.

All those distractions gone. Now you have all that brain power to apply to your surroundings. If you're observant and good at investigation, you could glean quite a lot of information.

Imagination doesn't work in a vacuum. It's a creative process, connecting seemingly unrelated pieces of information into a brand new realization. Imagination is the reason we took over the world. It didn't seem to exist in most hominids. The same power to imagine that a herd will come to a certain area in a certain season is the same one that can see that there is power beyond what we can see in the entire world around us.

Whether we call it God or Physics is really just stating a preference.

An interesting view point.

 

[dgirl1986]

Jesus.

When Jesus was hanging from the cross dying, he actually was not (in the very sense of the word) happy. He actually cried out to god asking why he had forsaken him.

 

[dgirl1986]

I would be interested to know what Psychology says about religion, if it does yet.

 

[Cephus]

When Jesus was hanging from the cross dying, he actually was not (in the very sense of the word) happy. He actually cried out to god asking why he had forsaken him.

Assuming that ever happened at all, since there is no independent evidence of it.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

When Jesus was hanging from the cross dying, he actually was not (in the very sense of the word) happy. He actually cried out to god asking why he had forsaken him.

Actually, he was quoting a Psalm, when you put it in context with "It is finished".

 

[dgirl1986]

Assuming that ever happened at all, since there is no independent evidence of it.

To someone who believes in it, the bible is the evidence.

Even though I do not believe in the the religious law of the bible I believe there is likely to be some historical truth in it.

 

[dgirl1986]

Actually, he was quoting a Psalm, when you put it in context with "It is finished".

Not the same as saying I am happy it is finished Crucifixion is a horrific way to die.

 

[chinu]

When Jesus was hanging from the cross dying, he actually was not (in the very sense of the word) happy. He actually cried out to god asking why he had forsaken him.

Of course, I cannot do anything if you are changing the story, its a never ending debate.. I think.

 

[dgirl1986]

Of course, I cannot do anything if you are changing the story, its a never ending debate.. I think.

I didnt change the story. That is what I remember readng.

 

[chinu]

I didnt change the story. That is what I remember readng.

Anyways, being happy or happy not was not the part of your question asked by you, thus I think its just useless to carry on the debate.
You just asked.. >>> wouldnt the first person to announce such an idea be ridiculed and shut down straight away? <<<

"Jesus was hanged" I think this is more than enough for your question, isn't it ?

 

[dgirl1986]

Anyways, being happy or happy not was not the part of your question asked by you, thus I think its just useless to carry on the debate.
You just asked.. >>> wouldnt the first person to announce such an idea be ridiculed and shut down straight away? <<<

"Jesus was hanged" I think this is more than enough for your question, isn't it ?

Ok, you lost me.