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Religion and Socialism
- Thread starter Fool
- Start date
Given all the disagreement of what "socialism"
means, it would be useful to define your usage.
(I sense no dictionary at hand.)
means, it would be useful to define your usage.
(I sense no dictionary at hand.)
Well I’ve seen the argument that Jesus basically espoused a lot of basic socialist ideas 
Exaltist Ethan
Bridging the Gap Between Believers and Skeptics
Socialism is forced cohesion for society to take care of itself. Religion, on the other hand, can only control their members. But socialism tends not to care what spiritual, religious or theological view points you have, it just wants to tax. Most religions offer a tithe but typically only do so if you earn a certain amount of money. When I joined the Unitarians I had to pay for their lessons but was not forced into tithing. And when religion helps people the support they get tends to be voluntary rather than forced. Was Jesus a socialist? Well, he wanted society to take care of itself, which is in the heart of socialism, but socialism the way it is practiced now didn't exist back then. And just because you use your taxes to pay for someone's welfare it doesn't necessarily mean you care about them. Jesus in some ways seemed to care about everyone on a deep and personal level. That's why there's so many Christians that exist today.
They are similar, but deal with outcomes differently.
They are similar, but deal with outcomes differently.
Basically anything that isn't privately owned, managed, and distributed for profit as a service or good.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
The things in common are small. In a system where I’m forced to pay for school already it is very expensive to then pay again.
Socialism stand in opposition to many religious ideals. It is based on force and hate. Religion is based on choice and love.
Religion can certainly promote some socialist ideals such as a fairer distribution of wealth and encouraging government to support community building.
Religions tend to promote spirituality which encompasses virtues, compassion and charity. Socialist movements have little concern for God, gods or many spiritual practices such as prayer and meditation.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
The OT had some pretty good tactics to reduce the wealth gap: Jubilee Year and Sabbatical Year come to mind. Boy, the religious right never wants to implement the Bible in those ways.
Well if members of a society don't like cohesion, forced or otherwise, they can form a society that lacks cohesion and see if that works. By definition a society is a tribe that works together for the well-being of all members. That is the point. Socialism is set of approaches that uses the success of the whole society to help create a balance between the advantaged to the disadvantaged. Greed, every man for himself, and dog-eat-dog won't work long term. Look at the humanitarian injustices of the Industrial Revolution before liberal ideas and human rights were put in place to create a more fair and safe society.
Really? Tell that to journalists who get captured and beheaded by ISIS. Tell that to women in America who have lost the reproductive rights due to Christian extremists in government. Tell that all those who lost their lives on 9-11-01, which the anniversary is coming up in a few days.
All governments want to tax. They need to. In fact, it's arguable that governments existing at all is a socialist idea.
And what is not spiritual about wanting a fair and equal society? Religion is freedom that should NOT be part of government, so what you say is a good thing.
So a tax. Maybe religion is socialist after all.
If they are selling services I hope they are paying taxes. If not that is cheating those who DO pay taxes for teaching.
That is true. When I worked at my grandmother's food kitchen they all did it for the service to their fellow citizens. No one ever mentioned Jesus or religion. It was open to all with no conditions. That is spiritual.
I suspect you are confessing your own indifference to those on welfare, while a moral society would acknowledge it is a decent and moral thing to do to ensure the disadvantaged don't lose everything. You seem to value money more than the dignity and well-being of your fellow human beings. Jesus never taught to turn your backs on the needy, he taught that it is your duty to help.
Well the reason has more to do with Constantine and him making Christianity the religion of the empire. The religion was forced (your favorite word) onto all subjects and they had no options. There are good Christians but they tend to be good people. Bad people are bad Christians. We don't see Christianity make bad people good. So mixed results.
The Germans of the 1930-40s were Lutheran and Catholic, and that didn't stop their crimes. The Confederate South were mostly Southern Baptists. So it's not all sunshine.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
Well I’ve seen the argument that Jesus basically espoused a lot of basic socialist ideas
He rejected it.
“thou shalt not steal, covet, kill, have other gods…”.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
Who gives the most to charity?
Who is willing to spend their money not just others?
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
from the dictionary
- Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
- The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which the means of production are collectively owned but a completely classless society has not yet been achieved. Both of these take the control away from the actual people and put it in the hands of a few power brokers. Given that Marx et al hate God and religion the efforts to try to merge the systems or pretend that they fit well together seems pointless.
I suppose it could be, in a way. I mean, if everyone in a given society belonged to a religion and truly practiced every religious law, rule, and precept that's required, then it might seem somewhat socialist. If there was no sin of greed, no lying, no cheating, no stealing, no murder, no adultery, no coveting of thy neighbor's oxen - and also no sloth or laziness, no violence, no lust, no gluttony. This is obviously an impossibility, but nonetheless, considering that a sin-free society would be ideal, then such a society wouldn't even need socialism.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
And what do these have to do with socialism?
If by "stealing" you're referring to taxation (which support your police, military, fire department, public roads, etc.), remember that Jesus said "Render to Caesar what is Caesar’s" - Matthew 22:21
Yerda
Veteran Member
The Socialism of the Gospel - The Institute for Christian Socialism
Christianity is inherently social. The manifestations of this sociality, found throughout scripture, doctrinal teachings, ecclesial mission, spiritual practice, and daily discipleship, are richly diverse and abundantly evident. On the most basic level, we mean to be faithful to this socialism of the Gospel. In doing so, we are compelled to make clear the incompatibility of the socialist faith, life, and hope of Christianity with the antisocial logics, practices, and effects of capitalism.
Christianity is inherently social. The manifestations of this sociality, found throughout scripture, doctrinal teachings, ecclesial mission, spiritual practice, and daily discipleship, are richly diverse and abundantly evident. On the most basic level, we mean to be faithful to this socialism of the Gospel. In doing so, we are compelled to make clear the incompatibility of the socialist faith, life, and hope of Christianity with the antisocial logics, practices, and effects of capitalism.
I expect because the idea in their head of socialism doesn't involve social programs and public ownership etc.
Pretty sure those are also against the tenants of socialism (minus the gods part.)
Ella S.
Well-Known Member
I find this very interesting, because, in my opinion, religion is inherently hateful due to the fact that it's directly tied to hierarchical authority, promoting religious (and often clerical) supremacism and acting in what Sartre referred to as "bad faith."
Socialism, by contrast, tends to teach that people shouldn't be able to horde what others need to stay alive, and even when socialism has gone horrifically wrong (like in the USSR) people still had free healthcare, free food, free education, and job stability.
So I actually see it the other way around.
Not all religions approve of socialism.
Religion is an organized way of beliefs and the promotion of that. It is not necessarily about love.
Truth in love
Well-Known Member
these items are at the heart of socialism
Taxation is theft. And it goes way beyond paying for the police.