Religion and works

[Rainbow Mage]

In your opinion- Is it more important to believe a certain religion, or more important to be good and benevolent no matter what your religion is? I think of course that being good and benevolent is the most important

 

[TheKnight]

In your opinion- Is it more important to believe a certain religion, or more important to be good and benevolent no matter what your religion is? I think of course that being good and benevolent is the most important

I think it's more important to believe a certain religion. Simply because outside of a religiously defined morality, good and benevolence have no objective external meaning.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

I don't think it's necessarily true that outside religion good and benevolence have no objective meaning. We all know what hurts us, and we all feel regret when we do that same hurt to others. We may not feel regret at the time we're doing it, but we always do later. We should not do to others what hurts us.

 

[Onkara]

In your opinion- Is it more important to believe a certain religion, or more important to be good and benevolent no matter what your religion is? I think of course that being good and benevolent is the most important

I think that the highest answer is that when we realised we are not the one who acts i.e. the end of Egoism. It is religion which leads us whilst we are not convinced of this. So Religion is a tool, a way to the Goal and a reminder once arrived. Whilst we are still the doer, the actor, then it is important to be good and benevolent as we are the doers and by being good we are ensuring we will do less harm, during this time the teachings of religion are helpful.

 

[TheKnight]

I don't think it's necessarily true that outside religion good and benevolence have no objective meaning. We all know what hurts us, and we all feel regret when we do that same hurt to others. We may not feel regret at the time we're doing it, but we always do later. We should not do to others what hurts us.

Wrong, we all know what most people don't like. However, morality should be beyond what we like or don't like.

The fact is that doctor's tend to know what hurts us most and what does not. If that were the basis for our morality we'd make tons of things illegal that are not illegal.

Religious morality is objective (in a sense) and it is external from those who believe it. Those who believe in religions tend to think that God gave the moral value of said religion. Therefore the values are not contrived by men (who are not fit for defining morality).

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Yes it may be true that god gave some morals we wouldn't see a need for, but does that mean a person couldn't be good without those morals that a specific religion alone is saying god gave? Why can't a person be called good when they see what harms them, and does not work that same harm to another?

 

[BruceDLimber]

Greetings!

Concerning religion and works, the Baha'i scriptures say this:

“The first duty prescribed by God for His servants is the recognition of Him Who is the Dayspring of His Revelation and the Fountain of His laws, Who representeth the Godhead in both the Kingdom of His Cause and the world of creation [faith]. Whoso achieveth this duty hath attained unto all good; and whoso is deprived thereof hath gone astray, though he be the author of every righteous deed. It behoveth every one who reacheth this most sublime station, this summit of transcendent glory, to observe every ordinance of Him Who is the Desire of the world [works]. These twin duties are inseparable. Neither is acceptable without the other. Thus hath it been decreed by Him Who is the Source of Divine inspiration.“

—The Book of Laws, p. 19

Best!

Bruce

 

[Caladan]

In your opinion- Is it more important to believe a certain religion, or more important to be good and benevolent no matter what your religion is? I think of course that being good and benevolent is the most important

In a sense, neither.
To be aware and informed beyond either bias seems interesting enough. people should strive to respect others and be at ease with others regardless of religious affiliation, and without what I find to be the burden of loaded terms such as good and benevolent.

 

[Mr Cheese]

In your opinion- Is it more important to believe a certain religion, or more important to be good and benevolent no matter what your religion is? I think of course that being good and benevolent is the most important

faith without works are dead
work without faith is dead

However, if one adheres to one over the other theya re lost. One needs both.

It can be easy to worship a religion and not the divine
It can be easy to do good things, but have no real contact with the divine.

In the end the religious person fools themselves into thinking following rules and customs are hte most important

The worker feels that just by being good they are doing best.

Arguably the worker is closer to the divine as they are being truer to themselves, hopefully.

Of course arguably to be truly a "good person" you have to do more than just be a good person, there is contemplation and meditation. Arguably though of course these should be intergrated and be "done" as one is undertaking daily life, it is a mistake to set them aside from ordinary life.

 

[.lava]

In your opinion- Is it more important to believe a certain religion, or more important to be good and benevolent no matter what your religion is? I think of course that being good and benevolent is the most important

what's the difference between? i see no difference and your question makes no sense to me naturally, note that i don't mean to be rude

.

 

[Just_me_Mike]

To me, being true to one's heart is the most important. By doing this we may realize we don't like what we see and can change. Yet if we don't remain true to our heart, whatever we become, will always be tainted by what is really in our hearts.

 

[Walkntune]

In your opinion- Is it more important to believe a certain religion, or more important to be good and benevolent no matter what your religion is? I think of course that being good and benevolent is the most important

Do you want your children to be good because you make them or because they love you?
Does it matter as long as they are being good?It is always better to walk in love and do all in this purpose.

 

[TheKnight]

Yes it may be true that god gave some morals we wouldn't see a need for, but does that mean a person couldn't be good without those morals that a specific religion alone is saying god gave? Why can't a person be called good when they see what harms them, and does not work that same harm to another?

What is good outside of morality? Absolutely nothing. The reason a person can't be called good when they see what harms them and does not work that same harm to another is because harm is not uniform among all humans. Various things harm various people differently (especially when you look at the emotional harm that may come from an action).

Outside of God defined morality, there is not morality. There's people doing whatever they feel like.

 

[Mr Cheese]

What is good outside of morality? Absolutely nothing. The reason a person can't be called good when they see what harms them and does not work that same harm to another is because harm is not uniform among all humans. Various things harm various people differently (especially when you look at the emotional harm that may come from an action).

Outside of God defined morality, there is not morality. There's people doing whatever they feel like.

then there's extremists following rules to the point of absurdity

like Jews who have seperate fridges for meat and dairy
who proclaim they are Jews yet have sun worship festivals every decade or whenver that was recently......

Another example would be mother teresa who took suffering to the point where she deliberatly let others suffer in pain as she saw it as holy, whether this is true or not I have no idea or care, the point is there....

there is a difference between "worshipping the divine" and worshipping a "religion"

 

[TheKnight]

then there's extremists following rules to the point of absurdity

I'd much rather have people following rules to the point of absurdity. Really the only people who have a problem with that are those people who want to do whatever they want. And those people I have zero sympathy for.

 

[Mr Cheese]

I'd much rather have people following rules to the point of absurdity. Really the only people who have a problem with that are those people who want to do whatever they want. And those people I have zero sympathy for.

What you are essentially advocating is religious fanaticism and extremism though

A sensible seeker of course abandons extremism but does not wander off to marry a dog or whatever libertine fears you have about people not following rigid extremism.....

They practise DISCERNMENT
Perhaps the most startling advocation of this is the Buddhist middle way or path
where no extremes are met. Here then we can see illustrated how faith and works are to interact, how bioth are needed and how ultimatly one is not superior to another.

But since you're "Jewish" I will use a modern jewish perspective:


It is easy to confuse this principle of keeping within proper bounds with mediocrity, with being neither one thing nor an­other. In reality there is a vast difference. What the Jewish sages recommend is not only a middle way, it is a rejection of ex­tremes in terms of a clear knowledge of how to keep everything, including the extreme, in its proper place. Consequently, in general, there are no preconceptions about what is the correct conduct for all situations, since the correctness of a way of be­ing is itself only measurable in terms of a specific set of circum­stances that may or may not recur. There is therefore no possibility of fixing a single standard of behavior. If anything is clear, it is that a rigid, unchanging way is wrong. Furthermore, this principle of movement, of constant change, is the principle manifested by the soul itself in its life on earth. To be sure, a person needs a special teacher or a great deal of guidance in or­der to be able always to find the right measure; usually choosing the correct way grows out of the soul’s continual oscillation from one extreme to another. This pendulum swing of experi­ence brings about a certain synthesis somewhere in the mid­dle-although too often it is an artificial middle, merely halfway between good and evil and neither one nor the other.

–The 13 petalled rose (Adin Steinsaltz)

 

[berrychrisc]

In your opinion- Is it more important to believe a certain religion, or more important to be good and benevolent no matter what your religion is? I think of course that being good and benevolent is the most important

The most important thing is a connection with God. Out of this union with the Divine within then goodness and benevolence will come forth naturally, and one can flourish spiritually in whatever religion one happens to subscribe to.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Yes I pretty much agree that some take it to a level of extremism, to agree with the Gnostic guy. See I don't see the point in morals like that, kosher laws, etc. What does what a person eats have to do with who they are?

 

[Mr Cheese]

Yes I pretty much agree that some take it to a level of extremism, to agree with the Gnostic guy. See I don't see the point in morals like that, kosher laws, etc. What does what a person eats have to do with who they are?

Well actually Kosher laws do have some good reasons.

Arguably of course one could argue kosher laws and other similar religious practises are largely cultural. But they could also be a product of hygene...one could imagine seperation of meat and dairy in a hot country could be a good thing! Spiritual practises of course also effect a person's body chemistry. As such diet and exercise are important to maintain the vehicle that is the body for the rigors of that which are spiritual gymnastics.

However extremism is still extremism... keeping kosjher or being a buddhist and not drinking alcohol, will not alone lead to spiritual "advancement"....

 

[Luminakisharblaze]

My view is that it is best to quest for ultimate truth and to seek it directly from the Source. What ever you are led to by Divine understanding is what is best for you, as long as it is a path of Love.