Religion = Blind Faith ?

[crimsonlung]

If you think about it, all religions are based on blind faith. There is not a shred of real life to anything in the Bible, in the Torah, in the Koran. Where are the miracles today? You ask a Christian or a Muslim that, you will get a half baked answer about the religious times being over. Or, you will get the "But your heart is beating and the grass is growing" answer. Why did all the mysticism and elaborate stories such as Noah and his Arc conveniently happen at a time where we cant prove its existence?

Don't you think the people of the times of Noah would of kept that arc in a Museum or at least have some piece of it? Or what about the cross Christ was allegedly crucified on, don't you think they would have that kept somewhere? Its not every day a man comes back to life, and I guarantee you if something like that happened today, it would be historically preserved. We have hieroglyphs from BC still intact that tell a useless story about a king, but the son of the thing that created humankind comes down to Earth, dies, comes back to life, and we have nothing to prove it but a book that says it happened.

It seems that all religions require a leap of blind faith which is disguised as a "relationship with god."

Thoughts?

 

[Penumbra]

Yeah, basically. It's a bit too generalizing, though. Some religious people are like that and some aren't.

Also, welcome to the forums.

 

[Madhuri]

Not all religions require blind faith.
No every religious person follows blindly.
And importantly, a lot of religious people purport to experience 'miracles' or mysticism in their lives, even today.

I truly believe that yogis and mystics exist even now. And the religion I follow places emphasis on learning techniques that lead to knowledge of a Divine presence. Faith is not emphasised at all.

 

[crimsonlung]

Yeah, basically. It's a bit too generalizing, though. Some religious people are like that and some aren't.

Also, welcome to the forums.

Thank you for the welcome

And I agree, not everyone acts this way, but when I ask the question "what does it take to be a Christian?" I get the answer "Believe that Jesus Christ is God's Son, that He died for our sins and was raised back to life." In order to believe this, you need to take a blind step and believe this blank statement since there is no physical proof this ever happened.

 

[crimsonlung]

Not all religions require blind faith.
No every religious person follows blindly.
And importantly, a lot of religious people purport to experience 'miracles' or mysticism in their lives, even today.

I truly believe that yogis and mystics exist even now. And the religion I follow places emphasis on learning techniques that lead to knowledge of a Divine presence. Faith is not emphasised at all.

What mysticism to you see today? Anything that can't be explained by science?

 

[Skwim]

While some of religious faith may be blind, I believe most of it is based on the acceptance of claims and statements regarded to be true.

 

[Penumbra]

Thank you for the welcome

And I agree, not everyone acts this way, but when I ask the question "what does it take to be a Christian?" I get the answer "Believe that Jesus Christ is God's Son, that He died for our sins and was raised back to life." In order to believe this, you need to take a blind step and believe this blank statement since there is no physical proof this ever happened.

Well, yeah, but Christianity is not "all religions".

The Abrahamic religions, and more specifically Christianity and Islam, tend to be about faith more than others. Many other religions are not so much focused on it.

 

[crimsonlung]

Well, yeah, but Christianity is not "all religions".

The Abrahamic religions, and more specifically Christianity and Islam, tend to be about faith more than others. Many other religions are not so much focused on it.

But, the more populous religions are Faith based, but you can apply this thought to any religion.

 

[Penumbra]

But, the more populous religions are Faith based, but you can apply this thought to any religion.

Eh, not really.

Most of the religions besides Christianity and Islam aren't exclusive in the sense that they must be believed or one will burn and whatnot. I'd argue that faith is still a large aspect of most of them, but it's not the driving force as it is in those other two religions.

 

[Storm]

The Abrahamics may be the most popular religion, but that does not make them the standard.

 

[crimsonlung]

Eh, not really.

Most of the religions besides Christianity and Islam aren't exclusive in the sense that they must be believed or one will burn and whatnot. I'd argue that faith is still a large aspect of most of them, but it's not the driving force as it is in those other two religions.

Well its not the fact that you will burn or not be considered a part of that religion if you don't believe in something, because as we all know, there are different levels (or rungs) of integrity in religions. You can be the know it all who goes to church 5 times a week Christian or the "I'm only going to church because my wife is dragging me and the kids" Christian. But regardless, you call yourself a Muslim, or a Jew or a Christian for a reason, but how do you know its true?

What religion can you say does not require a leap of faith?

 

[Storm]

What religion can you say does not require a leap of faith?

Taoism. Some varieties of Buddhism. My own Unitarian Universalism. Non-theistic neopaganism. Just off the top of my head.

 

[Madhuri]

What mysticism to you see today? Anything that can't be explained by science?

First of all, anything that can occur is based on laws of nature. So even if scientists cannot currently understand a phenomenon, does not mean they never can.

The issue is that there is very little attention given to eastern religion. There have been some studies involved with Buddhist monks and meditation, but even that has been limited. When something truly phenomenal occurs, it's generally very quickly dismissed by scientists. And when some scientists do try to study a mystical phenomenon, the rest of them immediately dismiss the findings, making some excuses (usually that the people involved are cheating or corrupt, which is a highly unfair and unprofessional assumption).

Another problem we face is that there are a lot of frauds around. So you can go to India, find some levitating yogis, and almost guarantee that they are cheating. But you do also come across instances of mysticism, that I absolutely believe are genuine. But the people who devote their lives to Yogic practice don't tend to show off. You are more likely to find them in caves up in the Himalayas meditating. Some remain in trance states for years without moving, eating, drinking etc.

I think that this is something one has to go see and experience for themselves to believe.

 

[Tathagata]

If you think about it, all religions are based on blind faith.

Please demonstrate one piece of evidence that shows Buddhism is based on blind faith.

There is not a shred of real life to anything in the Bible, in the Torah, in the Koran.

And the Tipitaka too?

It seems that all religions require a leap of blind faith which is disguised as a "relationship with god."

False. This doesn't apply to Taoism, Jainism, Confucianism, or Buddhism.

But, the more populous religions are Faith based, but you can apply this thought to any religion.

Buddhism is one of the 5 largest religions in the world so in what way does your criticism apply?

 

[Levite]

If you think about it, all religions are based on blind faith. There is not a shred of real life to anything in the Bible, in the Torah, in the Koran. Where are the miracles today? You ask a Christian or a Muslim that, you will get a half baked answer about the religious times being over. Or, you will get the "But your heart is beating and the grass is growing" answer. Why did all the mysticism and elaborate stories such as Noah and his Arc conveniently happen at a time where we cant prove its existence?

Don't you think the people of the times of Noah would of kept that arc in a Museum or at least have some piece of it? Or what about the cross Christ was allegedly crucified on, don't you think they would have that kept somewhere? Its not every day a man comes back to life, and I guarantee you if something like that happened today, it would be historically preserved. We have hieroglyphs from BC still intact that tell a useless story about a king, but the son of the thing that created humankind comes down to Earth, dies, comes back to life, and we have nothing to prove it but a book that says it happened.

It seems that all religions require a leap of blind faith which is disguised as a "relationship with god."

Thoughts?

Faith plays an element in Judaism, but it is not a uniform or blind faith. Judaism encourages questions, multiple meanings of text, and reinterpretation.

I think "blind" faith is a willingness to believe something entirely and uncritically, without proofs or reason to trust, without ever asking questions, and is deeply vulnerable to reasoned questions. That kind of faith is relatively foreign to Judaism. Faith, which I would describe as a conscious and informed decision to be willing to accept something without 100% "scientific" proof, out of trust for one's instincts, feeings, and the sources of such incomplete evidence as one may feel reliable in some way, is different in that is something that can survive, or may even encourage, questioning, and is ackowledging of the subjective choice being made to trust something without 100% objective assurance.

Blind faith is, I think, deeply linked to fundamentalism. But fundamentalism and religion are not interchangeable terms. The majority of people who adhere to a religion are not fundamentalists. They do not require literal belief in 100% of their sacred text, and may have many different interpretations of their sacred teachings, or understandings of their traditional theologies. Such people may have faith, but it is not generally blind.

As for miracles and other interactions with the Divine, those are questions of theology. Judaism has answes for those, as I am sure do Christianity and Islam; but I would be fairly doubtful whether any such answers will be particularly satisfactory to someone not a Jew, Christian, or Muslim...especially someone who may already have made up their mind that any such answers will be unacceptable.

 

[crimsonlung]

Taoism. Some varieties of Buddhism. My own Unitarian Universalism. Non-theistic neopaganism. Just off the top of my head.

I may be misinformed but isn't Unitarian Universalism a branch of Christianity? Well, the Unitarian part anyway. And I wouldn't really consider Taoism a religion, thats more of a belief. Same goes for Theistic Neopaganism. As for Buddhism, there are 2 major branches that are recognized, the rest can be considered not a religion:

Theravada and Mahayana, both of which recognize a man named Buddha, but, how do you know he exists?

 

[crimsonlung]

Please demonstrate one piece of evidence that shows Buddhism is based on blind faith.

And the Tipitaka too?

False. This doesn't apply to Taoism, Jainism, Confucianism, or Buddhism.



Buddhism is one of the 5 largest religions in the world so in what way does your criticism apply?

see my last answer

 

[Storm]

I may be misinformed but isn't Unitarian Universalism a branch of Christianity? Well, the Unitarian part anyway.

No, not since the merger.

And I wouldn't really consider Taoism a religion, thats more of a belief.

The difference being?

Same goes for Theistic Neopaganism.

I said NON-theistic neopaganism.

As for Buddhism, there are 2 major branches that are recognized, the rest can be considered not a religion:

So, basically, you're arguing that since religion requires blind faith, religions that don't must not be religions? Do you see the flaw in that?

Theravada and Mahayana, both of which recognize a man named Buddha, but, how do you know he exists?

What reason is there to doubt?

 

[crimsonlung]

As for miracles and other interactions with the Divine, those are questions of theology. Judaism has answes for those, as I am sure do Christianity and Islam; but I would be fairly doubtful whether any such answers will be particularly satisfactory to someone not a Jew, Christian, or Muslim...especially someone who may already have made up their mind that any such answers will be unacceptable.

So your saying I would have to be a part of the religion to believe those stories, this proves my blind faith point in its entirety.

Why do I have to be a Jew to make sense of Moses? Parted the Sea? Have you seen someone today part an Ocean? So why do you believe this happened? Do you think the story is untrue but you still believe in other aspects of the religion? Please explain.

 

[Tathagata]

And I wouldn't really consider Taoism a religion, thats more of a belief.

That doesn't make sense. How does Taoism being a belief separate it from religion? Religion IS a belief.

Same goes for Theistic Neopaganism.

How can Theistic Neopaganism be considered in the same category as Taoism? I can see how Taoism can be considered a philosophy as opposed to a religion, but Theistic Paganism still involves the supernatural as well as gods, Taoism has neither.

As for Buddhism, there are 2 major branches that are recognized, the rest can be considered not a religion: Theravada and Mahayana, both of which recognize a man named Buddha, but, how do you know he exists?

How do you know any historical figure exists? There's manuscripts written about his life, tracings of his presence in the actual locations where he resided and traveled, the same evidence as any historical figure.

Please demonstrate one piece of evidence that shows Buddhism is based on blind faith.

And the Tipitaka too?

False. This doesn't apply to Taoism, Jainism, Confucianism, or Buddhism.

Buddhism is one of the 5 largest religions in the world so in what way does your criticism apply?

see my last answer

Your last answer didn't address any of my queries.