"Religion of Peace?"

[icehorse]

What is there to that? Sharia is an explicitly Muslim law.

I realize that Muslim communities will (IMO foolishly) often call for its implementation, but hopefully it will be in vain.

Did it gain any ground somewhere in Europe or America in the last few decades? How and where?

Hey Luis,

First off, my stance is to staunchly defend secularism. I'm sensitive to even minor assaults on secularism, and these assaults tend to come from Christians or Muslims.

Second, your question is a fair one. Would you agree that when a Muslim takes an action to undo, even slightly, a bit of secular law, that that action is a promotion of Sharia?

 

[Notanumber]

So what's your point?

I'm asking, what is your point? That there's contradictions in Islam and some people abuse it? We know this. We know already there's contradictions and some Muslims are control freaks out there. Focus on the ones that corrupt and pervert Islam, not Islam itself. Not all want to force Sharia law and not all Muslim majority countries follow Sharia law. But we need to base it on their actions, not on a book that was written over a thousand years ago but multiple people.

You don't have to be an expert in physics to know that a plane can't bring down buildings like that. Ok, the fuel did it. Even though the plane exploded and the jet fuel went away with it. Even if it could melt it, which it can't, explain how other steel buildings can still stand when they have been engulfed in flames, but the twin towers, as well built as it was, just collapses?

Yeah, that wasn't fire or fuel. That was clearly demolition.

But some will say that they don't hate all Muslims, but in the end, they may as well say it, because they will be less trustworthy of Muslims, always suspect them of wrongdoing and not interact with them if they can help it. I've seen that before with whites who say they don't hate all blacks but they act like it.

It's up to the individual Muslim to make the decision. You can change the doctrine all you want. Not all of them follow it to the letter anyway. And you can't ban Islam either because they'll still practice it anyway.

It is a very dangerous book, so dangerous that it can get people killed. I do not know of any other book that is capable of doing that, do you?

What a brave woman!

 

[icehorse]

It is a very dangerous book, so dangerous that it can get people killed. I do not know of any other book that is capable of doing that, do you?

What a brave woman!

Brave woman indeed!

Also, let's not forget that criticizing the book can get you killed. Theo van Gogh was murdered for his criticism. Salman Rushdie has had a price on his head for decades for his criticism. Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders also live under permanent armed guard because of their criticisms. We see a steady stream of civilians in Muslim majority countries punished for blasphemy...

 

[LuisDantas]

Hey Luis,

First off, my stance is to staunchly defend secularism. I'm sensitive to even minor assaults on secularism, and these assaults tend to come from Christians or Muslims.

Second, your question is a fair one. Would you agree that when a Muslim takes an action to undo, even slightly, a bit of secular law, that that action is a promotion of Sharia?

Sure, and I am entirely for secularism in any society, regardless of any religious majorities.

But there is a clear difference between promotion of Sharia and it actually gaining ground. Or at least it is supposed to exist.

 

[paarsurrey]

Religion of Peace

Sure, Islam/Quran/Muhammad are peaceful. There is no doubt in it, absolutely none. Please
Regards

 

[Theweirdtophat]

Gads, another conspiracy theorist. Utter and total pap. I don't hate any moslem, but neither can I fully trust them because of taqqiya. I do hate the religion though, it is a brutal, repressive, stone age configuration. Yes, they will practice it, as is their right, but the rest of society should watch them closely, as is it's right.

Did you read what you wrote before you sent it?

taqqiya is a Shia trait, not a Sunni trait anyway and that is so it will prevent them from being oppressed. If a Buddhist majority starts oppressing Muslims and they ask the Muslim "Are you Muslim?" The Muslim can lie and say they are a Buddhist when they really aren't. It's to prevent them being oppressed. A lot of religions did that. That's how the Jew survived, when they pretended to be Christian even though they really weren't.

Most hatred of things comes from ignorance. You don't know enough about Muslims, you don't get to know them or their practices very well. A lot of haters or people who distrust Muslims usually don't interact with them to begin with. They listen to the news instead, which is full of lies anyway.

But of course when bring up any conspiracy you and others say it's a joke. Because you say so and not offer any reason as to why it's a joke

 

[Theweirdtophat]

It is a very dangerous book, so dangerous that it can get people killed. I do not know of any other book that is capable of doing that, do you?

What a brave woman!

It's a book. It can be interpreted in many ways. Take out all the bad things, and there will still be people that kill in the name of Islam, because you're going to see fanatics of every faith or lack thereof. The book doesn't make anybody do anything

Besides there are other religions that are far more dangerous than anything Islam is capable of, but naturally it's not talked about

Why is she brave? Anybody can rip up pieces of paper.

 

[Notanumber]

Did you read what you wrote before you sent it?

taqqiya is a Shia trait, not a Sunni trait anyway and that is so it will prevent them from being oppressed. If a Buddhist majority starts oppressing Muslims and they ask the Muslim "Are you Muslim?" The Muslim can lie and say they are a Buddhist when they really aren't. It's to prevent them being oppressed. A lot of religions did that. That's how the Jew survived, when they pretended to be Christian even though they really weren't.

Most hatred of things comes from ignorance. You don't know enough about Muslims, you don't get to know them or their practices very well. A lot of haters or people who distrust Muslims usually don't interact with them to begin with. They listen to the news instead, which is full of lies anyway.

But of course when bring up any conspiracy you and others say it's a joke. Because you say so and not offer any reason as to why it's a joke

Can the infidel lie if Muslims ask them if they are a Muslim to stop them from being oppressed?

 

[Notanumber]

It's a book. It can be interpreted in many ways. Take out all the bad things, and there will still be people that kill in the name of Islam, because you're going to see fanatics of every faith or lack thereof. The book doesn't make anybody do anything

Besides there are other religions that are far more dangerous than anything Islam is capable of, but naturally it's not talked about

Why is she brave? Anybody can rip up pieces of paper.

She is certainly braver than I am. Would you video yourself doing what she did and post it on YouTube giving your real name and address?

 

[LuisDantas]

Brave woman indeed!

Also, let's not forget that criticizing the book can get you killed. Theo van Gogh was murdered for his criticism. Salman Rushdie has had a price on his head for decades for his criticism. Ayaan Hirsi Ali and Geert Wilders also live under permanent armed guard because of their criticisms. We see a steady stream of civilians in Muslim majority countries punished for blasphemy...

I would love to see people state that those who killed and threatened those people are not true Muslims...

 

[LuisDantas]

Religion of Peace

Sure, Islam/Quran/Muhammad are peaceful. There is no doubt in it, absolutely none. Please
Regards

Of course there is doubt. We can not refuse to perceive the facts.

 

[LuisDantas]

Besides there are other religions that are far more dangerous than anything Islam is capable of, but naturally it's not talked about

Name at least one.

 

[Theweirdtophat]

I would love to see people state that those who killed and threatened those people are not true Muslims...

Does anyone know what a true Muslim is anyway?

If a Muslim does something bad, they are true Muslims, even though there are good Muslims and there are good verses. So if they follow the good verses, they are not true Muslims. They are only true if they are violent? What sense does that make?

People are trying to justify against disliking Muslims and it doesn't work. I don't know why the people who dislike Muslims say "Well I don't hate ALL Muslims." when they clearly do. They will not interact with them and mistrust them and fear them. Actions speak louder than words.

 

[Aberamentho]

And the True God will bring an end to all.

You see how we can make statements but in the end God has the last say.

As for Fake terrorist are you saying the planes flew themselves into the buiding's of the 9/11 attack?

Are you the last person on earth to figure out 9/11 was an inside job or what? I guess so. Bulidings don't fall because planes crash into them, tower 7 fell for no reason other than it was demolished, no plane hit the Pentagon or crashed in Pennsylvania and pictures prove it. Wow, desperate, huh?

I was just telling the context of the quote you used from Paul the false apostle.

What business did any other Country or their people have in the USA to kill innocent men and women?

Specifically, what?

If you don't admit to Islamic terrorism then how are you going to debate the truth or keep them from attacking their own?

Terrorism is anti Islamic and Islam doesn't provide justification for terrorism so really isn't to blame.

Of course that is when Islam would fall. Once a religion turns upon it's own, it will fall.
It will self-destruct from within.

Sounds like wishful thinking, never going to happen though. 1.5 billion strong and GROWING.

If we believe terrorism does not control Islam and Islam is good then why do they execute men and women in the streets with stoning and beheading for sinning?
Why are homosexuals put to death. Evil does not exist just by people hiding behind religion to do evil. Evil can exist with it's beliefs with a religion.

Believe whatever you like, don't expect me to stoop to a level of ignorance like your's.

You have no case as you have not brought any evidence or even shown a real accusation?

Apparently you have been ignoring my comments then, I have done plenty of that. See for yourself.

I am clear about the teaching "Do not judge",

Yes, clearly!

Quran (3:56) -

55."Recall the time when Allah said, "O Jesus! I will exalt you to die a natural death, and will exalt you to Myself and I will clear you of the unchaste accusations of those who disbelieve. I am going to make followers prevail over the disbelievers till the Day of Resurrection, then to Me shall be your return, and I will judge all your differences.

56. (As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

I had to add the previous verse because you were presenting it out of context. It's referring to a time before Islam and to the JUDGEMENT OF GOD.

Not humans. Nice try, let's see what else you got.

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

8:12 ACTUALLY SAYS:

It was the time when your Lord revealed to the angels, I am with you; to make those who believe stand firm and fast, and I [Allah] will indeed strike terror into the hearts of disbelievers. So smite (on your enemies') necks and above these, (on their heads) and strike off all their fingertips.

You do realize that this isn't a command to indiscriminately kill, but an assurance that God is with them against their (then) enemies.

History tells us He was, as their treacherous enemies were defeated again and again.

This is G rated compared to Joshua in the "Promised Land" and what he was ordered to do by God, Jesus' (pbwh) and Mohammed's (saw) God.

Jesus prophecied in support of the destruction of Judea and the Temple, "think not that I came to bring peace but A SWORD."

I guess Rome was working for Jesus! They brought it alright!

So why have people been beheaded and why murder them in the name of Islam?
I am not making accusations and nor was this thread about these things but the evil men do being about Satan and people of all religions using religion as a sheild to kill and do evil. You need to read correctly.

You are making accusations, taking verses out of context, historical and otherwise, presenting them as if they are communicating something other than that which is meant, and talking about beheadings you know nothing about personally. For all you know they were not really done by Muslims or at all and you're just gullible and full of hate. You definitely are full of hate, that much is obvious, for Islam, and think your hate is justified. THINK.

NOW YOU have realised the aim of this thread. How about actually answering the questions.

I follow Christ not Paul or even Peter.

Then you are not a disciple because Peter was personally chosen by Jesus.

Paul wasn't.

Apparently you know nothing of the H&R of Clement. You should look into it, it's as old as Sainaiticus in MS. form in Greek and a Syriac translation is in my possession as we speak.

Syriac is an Aramaic dialect making it the only Aramaic language Christian literature extant from ante-Nicene days. The Syriac just came out too, is different than the Greek in many ways too. The Syriac version was suppressed for 1600 years.

Apparently you know little.

 

[LuisDantas]

Does anyone know what a true Muslim is anyway?

Lots of Muslims expect others to decide that certain people are clearly not Muslims at all, so apparently yes.

If a Muslim does something bad, they are true Muslims,

That is not the usual narrative, you know.

even though there are good Muslims and there are good verses. So if they follow the good verses, they are not true Muslims. They are only true if they are violent? What sense does that make?

None. I do not approve of attempts to declare people like ISIS "not true Muslims".

People are trying to justify against disliking Muslims and it doesn't work. I don't know why the people who dislike Muslims say "Well I don't hate ALL Muslims." when they clearly do. They will not interact with them and mistrust them and fear them. Actions speak louder than words.

A reality check would serve you well.

 

[Augustus]

That's how the Jew survived, when they pretended to be Christian even though they really weren't.

There are specific Jewish theological discussions of just this point, is it a sin to renounce your faith outwardly to protect yourself as long as you inwardly remain faithful.

Taqqiya is just the Islamic analogue of that yet has become this ridiculous tool of meta-reasoning to consider that evertything that every Muslims says is not to be trusted because, unless it confirms your prejudices, its probably Taqqiya.

It's one of the most inane arguments in history.

 

[Aberamentho]

What is there to that? Sharia is an explicitly Muslim law.

I realize that Muslim communities will (IMO foolishly) often call for its implementation, but hopefully it will be in vain.

Did it gain any ground somewhere in Europe or America in the last few decades? How and where?

Islam doesn't desire to enforce Muslim codes of conduct on non Muslims period.

Islam is, WITH SHARIA, for the hundredth time, protected by the US Constitution and already is practiced wherever Islam is including Europe and America.

Whoever told you that Muslim Sharia was ever meant for non Muslims they lied to you, it has nothing to do with anyone who isn't a Muslim.

It's that freaking simple.

 

[Aberamentho]

There are specific Jewish theological discussions of just this point, is it a sin to renounce your faith outwardly to protect yourself as long as you inwardly remain faithful.

Taqqiya is just the Islamic analogue of that yet has become this ridiculous tool of meta-reasoning to consider that evertything that every Muslims says is not to be trusted because, unless it confirms your prejudices, its probably Taqqiya.

It's one of the most inane arguments in history.

Right?

Taqiyya is the new "it word" for non Muslims, mostly idiots, to slander the meaning of without ever consulting a Muslim source.

If they are not idiots, liars then.

 

[Aberamentho]

Lots of Muslims expect others to decide that certain people are clearly not Muslims at all, so apparently yes.



That is not the usual narrative, you know.



None. I do not approve of attempts to declare people like ISIS "not true Muslims".



A reality check would serve you well.

You should seriously take your own advice and stop telling people who just are not as ignorant as you that they need a "reality check."

ISIS are not true Muslims, they are a creation of the enemies of Islam and their goal is to incite the world against it, not take it over.

You need the reality check, probably think LHO killed JFK and believe every word of the Warren report too I bet.

Probably accept all "official stories" spoon fed to so many sheep, 9/11 you probably still think was done by Al Quaeda.

 

[icehorse]

Islam is, for the hundredth time, protected by the US Constitution and already is practiced wherever Islam is including Europe and America.

Among all the noise, this stands out a bit: In the beginning of this thread you were saying "Sharia is protected by the Constitution", now you're saying "Islam is protected". we notice things like that.