"Religion of Peace?"

[Aberamentho]

10:25. Allah invites us all to the abode of peace and He guides him who wishes to be guided to the exact right path leading to the goal.

3:64. O people of the Scripture! Let us agree to a proposition common to us both.


The definition of Jihad, Arabic-English Lexicon of Lane & Raghib:

The use of or exerting of one's utmost powers, efforts, eandeavors or ability in contending with an object of disapprobation, and this is of THREE KINDS; a visible enemy, the devil, and one's self.

The definition of "Holy War" is unknown entirely to Arabic speaking people who are unaware of the slanderous definition given by the West.

By slander I mean, lie, literally creating propaganda designed to give Westerners a false impression of the meaning of Jihad. It's not a secret, people are just not all that into investigating the validity of claims made about Islam, by enemies of Islam.

22:39-40

Permission (to fight in self defense) is now given to those against whom war is waged without cause, because they have been done Injustice to, and Allah indeed has might and power to help them. To those who have been driven from there homes without just cause. Their only fault was that they said, 'Our Lord is Allah.'

See: Palestine. Syria, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc.

 

[Aberamentho]

I've made this point a couple times now but found that the comment in this thread about different translations echoed the point I made. Of course, in many cases the translations basically echo each other but not always. The biggest difference I've seen is 17:104. So are we living in "the end of days" or did 17:104 refer to a past event or are we waiting for "the next life" for Israelites to be judged?

When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."

versus

And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell
securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.

versus

And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and
when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.

This is just saying that at Judgement Day it will be a judgement based on personal righteousness, not particular religious affiliation.

"Together in Judgement."

If not in this life, in the next.

Like you I don't see a big difference between translations but I do recommend consulting as many as possible if you don't speak Arabic.

I use Noor Foundational International Inc.

www.islamusa.org

I find it to be the best so far that I have come across. Noble Qur'an seems popular too, I don't have it though.

Tafsif (Quranic exegesis) is a big help in these situations, you can trace it back to the original Arabic meaning more efficiently.

 

[Aberamentho]

His wives? Plural? Because most people have just the one. It's very... not quite hypocritical but it's the only word coming to mind, for you to criticize non-muslim nations for infidelity and such (disloyalty, in a word) when you're perfectly fine with polygamy.


A) This unverified, source-less accusation does not prove or show how "adultery breeds adultery".
B) I care why? I'm American. This is an example of you YET AGAIN trying to throw out how "Vikings" are somehow just as bad if not worse as muslims. You're deflecting--HARD.

So how does sharia propose to solve this "issue" of adultery? The traditional barbaric method of stoning?


No, we are not.

If the law allows polygamy it isn't adultery.

Many polygamous marriages have widows who were taken in because they had no support and aren't just because men need to have 10 wives.

You can't have more than one wife, also, if you can't afford to provide for a large family or even just two wives either.

It's unfair to judge a foreign culture, a tradition as old as marriage and as old as Islam, in Islam, based on modern Western standards.

Especially since most married people cheat, at least polygamy is honest and by definition not adultery.

A Muslim can live a polygamous lifestyle in America if already wedded prior to moving here, too.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

You do understand Sharia only applies to Muslims

I honestly wish this were true and that Muslims who wish to apply Islamic religious laws to non-Muslims could agree with you on this.

and Muslims don't desire to make it the law of the world, right?

Okay, seriously, please Google "Organisation of Islamic Co-operation, blasphemy laws" and you will swiftly realise that your claim does not match up with reality. There are Muslims out there who desire Sharia to be applied globally.

Sharia is practiced everyday in America and everywhere there is Islam. It's not something that is coming but here, now, and no threat to anyone. It doesn't apply to anyone but Muslims and is protected by the Constitution.

When people say "Sharia law is being brought over here" they generally refer to it being applied in local & national laws. Sharia law is protected by the Constitution insofar as it doesn't start infringing on the rights of non-Muslims - for instance a non-Muslim woman having to go through a Sharia court to obtain a divorce from her Muslim husband (this is just a hypothetical situation). The moment that happens, Sharia comes into conflict with the Constitution.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Christians elevated Jesus (pbwh) to "God" and believed in the triunity of God, a senseless doctrine, idolatrous and polytheistic both.

How can the trinitarian concept of Jesus being God (i.e. the same being) be polytheistic? That implies the worship of multiple deities. This is the sort of misrepresentation of other beliefs that seems to characterise Islamic discourse.

 

[The Emperor of Mankind]

Yes, however, sharia law could be an example.

The only thing sharia law is an example of is barbarous religious law and another example of why theocracies do not work.

Plus, aren't we all born as Muslims?

Don't be absurd, of course we're not. This claim holds no efficacy at all outside the echo chamber of Islamic theology.

 

[danieldemol]

10:25. Allah invites us all to the abode of peace and He guides him who wishes to be guided to the exact right path leading to the goal.

3:64. O people of the Scripture! Let us agree to a proposition common to us both.


The definition of Jihad, Arabic-English Lexicon of Lane & Raghib:

The use of or exerting of one utmost powers, efforts, eandeavors or ability in contending with an object of disapprobation, and this is of THREE KINDS; a visible enemy, the devil, and one's self.

The definition of "Holy War" is unknown entirely to Arabic speaking people who are unaware of the slanderous definition given by the West.

22:39-40

Permission (to fight in self defense) is now given to those against whom war is waged without cause, because they have been done Injustice to, and Allah indeed has might and power to help them. To those who have been driven from there homes without just cause. Their only fault was that they said, 'Our Lord is Allah.'

See: Palestine.

The Gaza war ended in 2009, does your definition of self defence require that after hostilities ceased, war be taken up again? What about the view of Palestinians that say they need a break from open fire?

 

[RESOLUTION]

Is Islam a "religion of peace" as Muslims and an increasing number of people would have us believe?

With the current ongoing atrocities being carried out on practically a daily basis the question is asked and answered in the affirmative by Muslims, politicians and the public alike. But who are these people who are given air-time on TV, radio and the public leftist largely controlled media?

Is there another version of Islam which is being suppressed and hidden from general public viewing?

Facebook has recently submitted to demands from Muslims who accuse non-Muslims of the charge of "blasphemy" to have comments removed and at the same time blocked an advert promoting a Christian film. So where are we going with all this?

“Your ad wasn’t approved because it doesn’t follow Facebook’s Advertising Guidelines for language that is profane, vulgar, threatening or generates high negative feedback,” Facebook reportedly wrote to producers of the film. “Ads can’t use language that insults, harasses or demeans people, or addresses their age, gender, name, race, physical condition or sexual preference.”

Has Islam done anything to suggest it isn't?
More importantly... if the Islam terrorist got into power would those who call themselves peaceful Islam followers do as they were told by the terrorist due to fear?

If Satan can fool people by pretending to be an 'angel of light' how do you suggest a tyrant might rise in this world?

 

[Aberamentho]

The Gaza war ended in 2009, does your definition of self defence require that after hostilities ceased, war be taken up again? What about the view of Palestinians that say they need a break from open fire?

The Palestinians live in 2 seperate, surronded on all sides by Israel or the Mediterranean, PRISON CAMPS WITHOUT BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS LIKE FREEDOM.

So nothing is over until Israel stops oppressing the Palestinians.

Or is that not covered under "Injustice" or "self defense" in your eyes? Being confined to open air prison camps that Israel can enter but the Palestinians can not leave?

Did you think you had a good, valid response that actually said something negative about Palestinians?

I take it you are unaware of what is going on there, don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Too bad you have to try to pretend like you do. If you just took the time to learn reality you wouldn't be so ready to hate on Palestinian victims of Israeli oppression like that was cool or something.

I assure you, hating on victims of human rights violations, innocent civilians, is not something a good person does.

 

[Aberamentho]

The Gaza war ended in 2009,

I don't recall mentioning any "Gaza war" what I am talking about goes back to 1967 and earlier and is going on today, didn't end, isn't called the Gaza war.

You must have sent me someone elses message.

does your definition of self defence

I use the same definition everyone does, odd question buddy, you are an odd guy.

require that after hostilities ceased, war be taken up again? What about the view of Palestinians that say they need a break from open fire?

Again, if they live in open air prison camps, are oppressed, denied freedom, how do you figure hostility has ended?

Why don't you go watch some educational documentaries on the conditions in Palestine and come back when you know something other than how to say "war of Gaza...ended..."

You know, something relevant that doesn't ignore the human rights violations inflicted on the innocent Palestinians.

 

[Aberamentho]

Has Islam done anything to suggest it isn't?
More importantly... if the Islam terrorist got into power would those who call themselves peaceful Islam followers do as they were told by the terrorist due to fear?

If Satan can fool people by pretending to be an 'angel of light' how do you suggest a tyrant might rise in this world?

Terrorists will never control Islam because terrorism is fundamentally anti-Islamic and these alleged terror organizations creations of Mossad and Western Intelligence agencies.

And Muslims don't fear terrorists we fight them.

Ignorant Americans are a bigger threat to Islam than fake terrorists.

 

[Aberamentho]

Has Islam done anything to suggest it isn't?
More importantly... if the Islam terrorist got into power would those who call themselves peaceful Islam followers do as they were told by the terrorist due to fear?

If Satan can fool people by pretending to be an 'angel of light' how do you suggest a tyrant might rise in this world?

Oh, that "angel of light" quote, is from Paul, who contradicts Jesus by saying it (Satan can't cast out Satan, ie, can't do good even to do bad) and is an accusation that the 12 Apostles are "False Apostles of Christ" who he just finished saying he wasn't the least inferior to, moving on he no longer needs their approval after alleging they gave their blessingd, he goes on to denounce them as "masquerading" as Apostles of Christ, "No wonder, even Satan..."

Because that is the devious kind of lowlife that Paul/Saul the false (self-appointed) apostle to the goyim was. Balaam.

Every Apostle preached to Jew and non Jew, especially Peter, the true Apostle to the nations(gentiles) and Paul was "Forbidden from preaching in Asia according to the Holy Spirit", according to Luke.

He was FORCED to preach outside of Asia and had NO CHOICE but to NOT preach to Jews, he makes it sound like it was his decision or something when he was just forbidden from preaching to the Jews, who hated him anyway.


So you obviously don't understand scripture well enough to be making such statements. You only assume what you want about Islam and think this quote supports some theory you have.

Islam is not affiliated with terrorism, such acts are forbidden in the Qur'an.

Whoever does them obviously isn't a Muslim but one who is an agent of those who wish to destroy it.

 

[danieldemol]

The Palestinians live in 2 seperate, surronded on all side by Israel or the Mediterranean, PRISON CAMPS WITHOUT BASIC HUMAN RIGHTS LIKE FREEDOM.

So nothing is over under Israel stops oppressing the Palestinians.

Or is that not covered under "Injustice" or "self defense" in your eyes? Being confined to open air prison camps that Israel can enter but the Palestinians can not leave.

Did you think you had a good, valid response that actually said something negative about Palestinians?

I take it you are unaware of what is going on there, don't have a clue what you are talking about.

Too bad you have to try to pretend like you do. If you just took the time to learn reality you wouldn't be so ready to hate on Palestinian victims of Israeli oppression like that was cool or something.

I assure you, hating on victims of human right violations, innocent civilians, is not something a good person does.

I didn't claim to be an authority on the subject, asking questions is a necessary part of learning.

I don't hate Palestinians, I wish for there freedom, I'll try and elaborate on this point in a seperate post but may run out of time to do it tonight

 

[Aberamentho]

The Gaza war ended in 2009, does your definition of self defence require that after hostilities ceased, war be taken up again? What about the view of Palestinians that say they need a break from open fire?

Well apparently they would like to not be shot at, does that confuse you? Seems like a reasonable "view" to me.

Your comment was a response to a quote from the Qur'an that you obviously didn't like because it wasn't negative and doesn't support your biggotry.

So you thought mentioning a battle that ended in 2009 would tarnish the verse because the Palestinians still live in open air prison camps?

I am not sure what you thought you were accomplishing, all you accomplished was informing anyone listening you place no value on Palestinian human rights, don't condemn the violations or don't know about them and are opinionated enough to ignore reality just to say something you think is true and negative about Palestinians, no matter how much they suffer under oppressive Israeli rule.

I hope that was your goal.

 

[Aberamentho]

I didn't claim to be an authority on the subject, asking questions is a necessary part of learning.

I don't hate Palestinians, I wish for there freedom, I'll try and elaborate on this point in a seperate post but may run out of time to do it tonight

If that was true you would not have jumped to such a conclusion without all (any really) of the relevant facts.

But you did.

You weren't trying to learn you were trying to bash Islam, I quoted a peaceful verse and you tried to discredit it by ignoring human rights violations and assuming you knew I was talking about a short battle that ended in 2009, when I was talking about every day since the incorporation of Israel.

If you don't hate, you act like you do. Like everyone who does. Which is weird if you really don't.

 

[Aberamentho]

I didn't claim to be an authority on the subject, asking questions is a necessary part of learning.

I don't hate Palestinians, I wish for there freedom, I'll try and elaborate on this point in a seperate post but may run out of time to do it tonight

You sure responded as if you fancied yourself informed, which is obviously not the case if you are defending perpetrators of human rights violations for decades running, as if they are victims of being forced to invade and annex, imprison Palestine.

I would love to hear you "elaborate" on your defense of these violations, should be fascinating.

 

[hughwatt]

Under sharia law non-muslims will be treaded like any other, in my view.

Yes, in humiliation if they refuse to allow Muslims to rule over them, Jews and Christians that is. If your neither, you'll just be killed.

Sharia law will punish those who produce intoxications, unless its for medical uses. Prophet Muhammad once said "Allah, the Exalted, has let no disease exist without providing for its cure, except for one ailment, namely, old age’.”

Muhammad was a medical man?

Volume 7, Book 71, Number 673 : Narrated by Abu Huraira
Allah's Apostle said, "If a fly falls in the vessel of any of you, let him dip all of it (into the vessel) and then throw it away, for in one of its wings there is a disease and in the other there is healing (antidote for it) i e. the treatment for that disease."

Okay, you do that when a fly which has landed on and wallowed in animal muck drops into your drink or sits on your food.

 

[hughwatt]

As with any religion, Islam has numerous different interpretations. Some of those interpretations are peaceful while other interpretations are not. Therefore, the question of whether or not Islam is a religion of peace is a difficult question to answer.

Read the Koran and associated Hadith and Sunnah. This will help you to interpret whether Islam was ever a "religion of peace." Look at the life and example of its founder.

 

[hughwatt]

The top theme/goal of the Abrahamic religions is subjugation of the masses. So of course when members of these religions run into opposition to their beliefs the result will be bigotry, conflict, and violence. Pointing out Islam while ignoring Christianity, Judaism, Mormonism, and other Abrahamic religions isn't fair. They all have the same problem. It would be nice if humanity could leave bronze age fables and mythology in the bronze age where it belongs but I'm not going to hold my breath on that one. Humanity is not a rational species.

Read the OP to see what this thread is about.

 

[RESOLUTION]

Oh, that "angel of light" quote, is from Paul, who contradicts Jesus by saying it (Satan can't cast out Satan, ie, can't do good even to do bad) and is an accusation that the 12 Apostles are "False Apostles of Christ" who he just finished saying he wasn't the least inferior to, moving on he no longer needs their approval after alleging they gave their blessingd, he goes on to denounce them as "masquerading" as Apostles of Christ, "No wonder, even Satan..."

Because that is the devious kind of lowlife that Paul/Saul the false (self-appointed) apostle to the goyim was. Balaam.

Every Apostle preached to Jew and non Jew, especially Peter, the true Apostle to the nations(gentiles) and Paul was "Forbidden from preaching in Asia according to the Holy Spirit", according to Luke.

He was FORCED to preach outside of Asia and had NO CHOICE but to NOT preach to Jews, he makes it sound like it was his decision or something when he was just forbidden from preaching to the Jews, who hated him anyway.


So you obviously don't understand scripture well enough to be making such statements. You only assume what you want about Islam and think this quote supports some theory you have.

One does not denote the other.

You have no case as you have not brought any evidence or even shown a real accusation?

I am clear about the teaching "Do not judge",
So if you want to make accusations against myself or even Paul for that matter the floor is yours bring the evidence otherwise it really is hopeless on your part.

Islam is not affiliated with terrorism, such acts are forbidden in the Qur'an.

Quran (3:56) - "As to those who reject faith, I will punish them with terrible agony in this world and in the Hereafter, nor will they have anyone to help."

Quran (8:12) - "I will cast terror into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore strike off their heads and strike off every fingertip of them"

So why have people been beheaded and why murder them in the name of Islam?
I am not making accusations and nor was this thread about these things but the evil men do being about Satan and people of all religions using religion as a sheild to kill and do evil. You need to read correctly.

Whoever does them obviously isn't a Muslim but one who is an agent of those who wish to destroy it.

NOW YOU have realised the aim of this thread. How about actually answering the questions.

I follow Christ not Paul or even Peter.