"Religion of Peace?"

[sovietchild]

You do understand Sharia only applies to Muslims and Muslims don't desire to make it the law of the world, right?

Sharia is practiced everyday in America and everywhere there is Islam. It's not something that is coming but here, now, and no threat to anyone. It doesn't apply to anyone but Muslims and is protected by the Constitution.

Yes, however, sharia law could be an example. Plus, aren't we all born as Muslims?

 

[Aberamentho]

Do you think ISIS are the modern day Vikings?

"Some Norsemen did not wish to work for a trader or to become a merchant. They had no interest in farming or talent for making quality goods. Instead, they tried to get rich by looting. Raiding parties were composed of about 100 Viking men. By the time the people in the foreign countryside, town, or village they were looting had gathered together a group of men to fight them off, the Vikings had sailed away on their speedy longboats."

Sounds like modern day ISIS, if you ask me.

ISIS is the international Boogeyman designed for the purpose of destroying Islam while cleverly pretending to represent its message.

Making people think Islam is evil is not the goal of Islam, but of the West through their creation, ISIS.

Who stands in New York City holding a torch as we speak.

They leave clues in plain sight, where nobody ever looks.

 

[Aberamentho]

Yes, however, sharia law could be an example. Plus, aren't we all born as Muslims?

That is my perspective. God's Will is in us at birth, the whispers try and remove it all throughout life.

Yes, a good example, but it's been slandered to the point people equate it with stoning adulteresses and female circumcision, it's sad, but true.

 

[shmogie]

Most religions talk about peace. Islam is not the first and won't be the last to say that. The end goal for almost all religions is peace. With the exception of those hardcore dark cults who use evil to subjugate others, most religions have peace, enlightenment and harmony as the end goal.

People see the bad things that bad Muslims do and assume all Muslims believe in the same thing. I guess that's why there's different branches of Islam...not to mention the Muslims that do fight against terrorists. We know the Quran forbids force conversion and many other horrible things as well, but that doesn't get talked about. The Muslims who do condemn terrorism and actually fight against it don't get that much press.

No one finds this strange?

I already know there's good Muslims because I've known some for many years. That alone is proof there are good Muslims as well as bad.

You know the koran forbids forced conversion ? How do you know that, have you actually read the book ? How about the hadith, have you read that ? Your conclusions are not based on fact, perhaps wishes ?

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

By adultery I meant a husband cheats on his wives or other way around.

His wives? Plural? Because most people have just the one. It's very... not quite hypocritical but it's the only word coming to mind, for you to criticize non-muslim nations for infidelity and such (disloyalty, in a word) when you're perfectly fine with polygamy.

Scandinavian countries always score highly on ratings which judge the happiness of its citizens, but it seems they also score highly when it comes to adultery.

A) This unverified, source-less accusation does not prove or show how "adultery breeds adultery".
B) I care why? I'm American. This is an example of you YET AGAIN trying to throw out how "Vikings" are somehow just as bad if not worse as muslims. You're deflecting--HARD.

So how does sharia propose to solve this "issue" of adultery? The traditional barbaric method of stoning?

Plus, aren't we all born as Muslims?

No, we are not.

 

[J2hapydna]

3:199 reads to me to be charitable and optimistic towards some Christians and Jews.

Here is 3:199:

And there are, certainly, among the People of the Book, those who believe in Allah, in the revelation to you, and in the revelation to them, bowing in humility to Allah. They will not sell the Signs of Allah for a miserable gain! For them is a reward with their Lord, and Allah is swift in account.


The Quranic Arabic Corpus - Translation

I don't read anything about Muslims being told to be charitable or optimistic towards Jews and Christians.

To me this verse is talking about Jews or Christians who have accepted in addition to their Bible (scripture revealed to them) also the Quran (scripture revealed to you)

So can you tell me what this verse in the Quran is talking about?

My point is that although you claim you have read the Quran, in reality you have a superficial understanding of the material and it's relevance

 

[shmogie]

Is Islam a "religion of peace" as Muslims and an increasing number of people would have us believe?

With the current ongoing atrocities being carried out on practically a daily basis the question is asked and answered in the affirmative by Muslims, politicians and the public alike. But who are these people who are given air-time on TV, radio and the public leftist largely controlled media?

Is there another version of Islam which is being suppressed and hidden from general public viewing?

Facebook has recently submitted to demands from Muslims who accuse non-Muslims of the charge of "blasphemy" to have comments removed and at the same time blocked an advert promoting a Christian film. So where are we going with all this?

“Your ad wasn’t approved because it doesn’t follow Facebook’s Advertising Guidelines for language that is profane, vulgar, threatening or generates high negative feedback,” Facebook reportedly wrote to producers of the film. “Ads can’t use language that insults, harasses or demeans people, or addresses their age, gender, name, race, physical condition or sexual preference.”

First, is islam even a religion ? Or, is it an oppressive dictitorial government system that has religious overtones?

Second, we can only determine whether islam is peaceful by looking at it's "holy books", it's foundations that every moslem is admonished to adopt and regard as the very word of their god.

In a sense, islam is peaceful, that is, when it's objectives are achieved and the "infidels" are moslems under an islamic theocracy, there will be peace.

The koran has at least 106 sura's that proclaim violence against and/or control over non moslem people. Further, The hadith, comments about mohammeds life from a variety of authors, portrays him as a killer, torturer, and most probably a sexual deviant. Don't believe me, read it for yourself.
Third we must look at history to determine it's peacefulness. From it's inception, islam has been about violent conquest. Whether it be the violent conquest of Constantinople, a Christian city, the conquest of Spain, a Christian nation, the conquest of parts of Eastern Europe, originally Christian, or Fighting in attempt to conquer Austria, being stopped at the gates of Vienna. Lets also not forget the conquest of huge swathes of India, with particular brutality and extreme torture being carried out against the Sikh's. Always are brought up in defense of historically brutal islam, are the Crusades. The Crusades never arose till after 200 years of border war and harassment by islam, and were small in relation to the conquests of islam, and were very small in relation to the numbers of people killed in relation to islam.

Now, you no doubt will be told that those are times past, and modern day islam is peaceful. Lets look at that claim. Lebanon, a Christian nation, is now under total control of moslems, who through an invasion of "Palestinian refugees" displaced the Christian Lebanese, and now persecute them. This occurred in the 1960's, 70's, and 80's. At the beginning of the twentieth century , The ottoman empire slaughtered in the thousand upon thousands Greek Christians, Men, women, and children were literally butchered. Photo's of the carnage makes you want to weep. The photo that has haunted me since the day I saw it is of four very pretty young Greek girls, who had been brutally raped, then crucified, hanging nude on crosses.

The "borders of Fire" is the modern historical description of any non moslem country that shares a border with a moslem country. Continual strife and conflict.

Of course, we know now what allowing millions of primarily young men from moslem countries in has done to many liberal European states. Riots, almost continual in France, Sweden, the now rape capital of Europe, moslems may rape women who do not dress according the moslem definition of modestly.

Fourth, islam cannot be compatible with western culture and traditions, and laws. In the US, and Europe and Australia, they recreate the moslem foundations of their homeland in self created moslem ghetto's, then live as they always have lived. And, they complain. In new York, they sued a diner because the smell of frying bacon offended them. In London they demanded that no English person be allowed to walk a dog near their enclave. What they really, really hate is the Western concept of free speech. Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikh's and others have had scurrilous things said about their religion, their Gods, their holy men and women, and recognize the ignorant ones spouting off have the RIGHT to say whatever they chose. Not so the moslem, they demand that your right be curtailed because they are offended.

There are many exceptions, and we should always judge an individual as an individual, but we must also recognize those fundamental beliefs they say they adhere to.

No, islam is not a peaceful religion

 

[sovietchild]

His wives? Plural? Because most people have just the one. It's very... not quite hypocritical but it's the only word coming to mind, for you to criticize non-muslim nations for infidelity and such (disloyalty, in a word) when you're perfectly fine with polygamy.

That was a typo.

 

[The Kilted Heathen]

Be that as it may, what evidence do you have that adultery breeds adultery? What exactly is the sharia solution for adultery?

 

[sovietchild]

Be that as it may, what evidence do you have that adultery breeds adultery? What exactly is the sharia solution for adultery?

Movies, pornhub, dating apps can serve as a temptation for cheating.

In Illinois for example, the consequences for adultery is up to a year in jail for both cheaters. As for stoning to death, I think it was designed for religious people, so, I don't really sure about this one though. But the point is, if adultery is punishable then at list it has a bit of idea of sharia law.

 

[icehorse]

My point is that although you claim you have read the Quran, in reality you don't have an understanding of the material
and it's relevance

Your translation reads very differently than mine. And yes I "claim" to have read the Quran, because I read the mediocre, dusty old tome. As far as having an understanding, I would say watch your tongue, because Muslims don't agree with each other on the "proper" understanding of the book. So I'll say it again, I trust my translators over you.

 

[Aberamentho]

This comment is a continuation of a conversation, I have been asked twice by different people why "The secular Republic of Turkey", a country that hasn't been under Muslim control since Ataturk and the founding of modern Turkey, in 1923 I think, has almost no Christians anymore?

The fact is Ataturk was a "Donmeh" false convert to Islam, loyal to deceased false Messiah Shabbatai Svi, and according to Ataturk, he was his descendant. After the Jews were expelled from Spain the Ottoman Empire gave them sanctuary. Shabbatai Svi approached the Sultan expecting to be acknowledged as the Messiah and was instead given the choice of converting to Islam or death. He chose conversion, in a rare instance of it being done under duress that anyone who knows who Svi was understands the actions of the Sultan whose nation was being disrupted by a pseudo-messiah, something that has never ended well for anyone anywhere.

This effectively eliminated the Svi movement, publicly, but what happened privately is quite different. Most of Svi's loyal followers converted, falsley, to Islam as well while maintaining their inverted Jewish beliefs, meaning when the Torah says do this, dont, when it says don't do, do it. Naturally this lead to nothing good for anyone except the Donmeh and their new Masonic-Zionist brethren today who dominate Turkey.

Turkey was the first nation to recognize the State of Israel, has strong diplomatic relations and military, with Israel and is a secular, ie non religious republic modelled on the Western three branches of govt.

Erdogan is trying to eliminate the other two as we speak, another tale, another day. It is being put to vote.


Islam is a persecuted religion in Turkey, not one in control of the government. So blaming Islam for the lack of Christians in Turkey is announcing to anyone who actually pays attention to history and current events that you don't even know Islam has no power in the Turkish government. Are uneducated regarding history.

But you are still willing to lay blame at Islams feet for the amount of Christians in Turkey.

www.atajew.com/2000/05/turkey.html


Start here if you want to learn more. Don't stop here, just start.

Before you blame Islam for things Islam has no control over, like Turkey, ask yourself why you are so anxious to blame Islam about things you don't know the cause of, just because Turkey was the Ummah of the Muslim world before WW1, it hasn't been since the collapse of the Ottoman Empire and is under Western (British, American) and Zionist control, run by false converts to Islam going back centuries who want to destroy it more than any other religion but also would like to destroy religion.


And it is far more complex than the enemy of my enemy is my friend re: Israel and Turkey's govts. mutual hatred of Islam.

Donmeh are Jewish by race, Ataturk was Jewish, and Zionism is not without Sabbateans (Donmeh) itself and more than likely is domininated by, albeit secretly, Sabbateans-Frankists like the Rothschilds.

I am not trying to make anyone feel stupid, although if you didn't know Muslims don't run the show in Turkey I don't know if you are capable of feeling stupid, definitely not of knowing it, much like the hate you feel that drives you to claim the existence of "polls" of "Muslims" who want to force Sharia on non-Muslims, which if you didn't make up yet actually believed, literally makes you stupid. Again sorry if rude, honesty first though.

The hate that thinks blaming Islam for the absence of a Christian presence in Turkey, is justified, even though Islam has zero political or military power in "The Secular Republic of Turkey."

Which is not even governed by Muslims, Islam or Sharia.

I don't think anyone could make people like this realize how dumb they are in thinking, if it can be called thinking, the dumb things they do. All with zero knowledge of who runs what in the world, knowledge of religious concepts true meaning, pretty much everything real and true.

Because it's only an uneducated person's attempt at justification of a hatred of a culture, and you can't educate those with minds clouded by hate, they don't want to learn and like, NEED, some group to hate.

To make their misery more bearable they put down the easiest people to put down.

In the wrong country at that...but I don't they really care about the facts or reality, it is more important to make up reasons why hate is appropriate even if they are reasons thought up in a state of historical, religious and all-around ignorance.

Is if funny, sad...both? I am not entirely sure what it is, besides pathetic, disturbing...

 

[Aberamentho]

I'm still curious to know how you define "gnostic"?

So as far as peace goes... well I don't want to live in peace if Sharia is the law. I want equal human rights for everyone, which Islam and Sharia do not.

Curious to know why you care, am I.

You have not had a clue since the first word you typed in this thread, have claimed to have read things I can tell you never did and you have the most ignorant level of understanding of what Sharia is, refuse to accept nobody wants you to live according to Sharia, don't even know Turkey hasn't had a Muslim government in 80 years and STILL blame Islam for the amount of Christians in Turkey.

You are an idiot. I am sorry if it sounds rude, sometimes the truth is rude.

But it's still very true. You really are not a very bright bulb. You are good at being ignorant of facts and staying that way to justify your own hatred, ignoring facts when hearing them to maintain justification for your hatred, you are good at this.

But at being informed, educated, honest...

Not so much.

Lol. On ignore you go. I don't have time for biggots, have given you too much of my time already.

 

[Aberamentho]

You know the koran forbids forced conversion ? How do you know that, have you actually read the book ? How about the hadith, have you read that ? Your conclusions are not based on fact, perhaps wishes ?

"There is no compulsion of any sort in religion as the right way stands distinguished from the way of error."

Is a quote, Sura 2:256 Qur'an.

Probably how it is known by this person, it's written in the Qur'an, forced conversion is forbidden in it.

Making it a fact based conclusion.

Making you wrong completely. Humorously too.

Hope that helps. Don't assume that people who say things regarding things in which you are uneducated are false, just because you are not educated.

 

[J2hapydna]

but we must also recognize those fundamental beliefs they say they adhere to.

Who is "they"? You appear to be describing Sharia obedient Sunni Muslims. Just as the word Christianity isn't defined by the KKK or the Justinian code, Islam isn't defined by the Umayyad interpretation of the Quran and MP

 

[sun rise]

Your translation reads very differently than mine. ..

This illustrates a point I've made that translations are hard and to assume that a translation really carries all the meaning of the original can lead to errors in judgement.

 

[Aberamentho]

I find it the most curious thing...

A person of limited education can be forgiven for misunderstanding and even fearing Sharia, given the measures taken by the media and the fear mongering propaganda from politicians and their aides, and the general conspiracy to slander Islam in every possible way while even claiming, from time to time, that Islam isn't the enemy, so as not to be accused of religious persecution and appear un-American, but nevertheless insisting "Radical Islam" is a threat to world peace, which they also created in many ways direct and indirect.

But if a Muslim tells you that Sharia is protected by the Constitution and therefore already exists in America and every place with religious freedom, isn't imposed on, never mind it not even applying to, non-Muslims, and you still feel the urge to and do continue to express the feeling that you don't want to live under Sharia, even though you were just told it doesn't apply to you so there is no reason to be concerned about it, you have serious mental problems when it comes to absorbing information.

Let me simplify this one last time.

Sharia is not a threat to anyone, and doesn't apply to non-Muslims, it is proper conduct for Muslims and if you aren't Muslim doesn't concern you whatsoever, making your ridiculous fears both ridiculous and unfounded on anything logical.

Sharia is protected as a religious freedom under the US Constitution and always has been, and has never caused a problem in America.

One last time, if you are not Muslim and concerned about Sharia, know this, Sharia is NOT CONCERNED with or about you.


As I mentioned previously, my education of Sharia is my personal responsibility and something that I have never had a conversation about in a Mosque or with any Muslim I know.

What I mean is if I am not being taught, never mind having it forced on me, Sharia, non-Muslims fearing Sharia just makes me laugh hysterically at their idiocy.

You can not explain to them even in simple terms anything that they will absorb to alleviate their fears.

It's almost as if they deliberately ignore facts so they don't have to let go of the fear that justifies their biggotry.

You have more to fear from Halakha and Zionism than Sharia.

 

[Aberamentho]

This illustrates a point I've made that translations are hard and to assume that a translation really carries all the meaning of the original can lead to errors in judgement.

Can you be specific?

 

[sun rise]

Can you be specific?

I've made this point a couple times now but found that the comment in this thread about different translations echoed the point I made. Of course, in many cases the translations basically echo each other but not always. The biggest difference I've seen is 17:104. So are we living in "the end of days" or did 17:104 refer to a past event or are we waiting for "the next life" for Israelites to be judged?

When the promise of the hereafter [End of Days] comes to be fulfilled, We [Allah] shall assemble you [the Israelites] all together [in the Land of Israel]."

versus

And We said thereafter to the Children of Israel, "Dwell
securely in the land (of promise)": but when the second of the warnings came to pass, We gathered you together in a mingled crowd.

versus

And We said to the Israelites after him: Dwell in the land: and
when the promise of the next life shall come to pass, we will bring you both together in judgment.

 

[Aberamentho]

Just some information from the introduction to my Qur'an.

Writes H.G. Wells, "And with a fresh vigor it (the Arab mind) took up that systematic development of positive knowledge which the Greeks had begun and relinquished. If the Greek was the father, the Arab was the foster-father of the scientific method of dealing with reality. Through the Arabs it was, and not by the Latin route that the modern world and received that gift of Light and Power." (The Outline of History, London, pg. 192)

Further, according to Dr. J.W. Draper, author of "The Intellectual Development of Europe"

"One of the most deplorable things in history is the SYSTEMATIC way in which European writers have contrived to put out of sight their SCIENTIFIC OBLIGATION TO THE ARABS."

This is referring to, as anyone who has read the Ante Nicene Church Fathers writings, the vehement ridicule of Greek philosophy, culture, science and all thing not Christian.

It was this Greek wisdom the Arabs, embarrassing Dark Ages Europe, used to assist in the creation of the prosperous and advanced society called the Muslim Empire.

This embarrassment and jealousy is the motivation behind the Crusades, a mission to plunder wealth and knowledge, knowledge the Arabs were willing to teach and had made gifts of to the Europeans before.

Later Arabic books were translated into Latin, read and admired by men like Thomas Aquinas.

Others were not so kind. Not a few Europeans produced spurious translations of the Qur'an, placing chapters out of order. Alexander Ross, George Sale who called it "so manifest a forgery", written to, in his words," to enable us to effectually expose the imposture", his "translation" is essentially a forgery. Al-Haj Hafiz Ghulman Sarwar exposed the forgeries of Sale in the introduction to his own translation. E.M. Wherry is another who based his information on Sale. J.M. Rodwell, E.H. Palmer is perhaps the worst of all.