Religion (proper) and science (proper) both must be devoid of superstition?

[whirlingmerc]

Neither 'superstition' or 'science' are inherently true
If a step on a crack I don't break my mothers back, is a superstition
The faked embryo drawings of Henkle may have made there way into many text books today but they are and always were fraudulent like Piltdown man who was a chimp with teeth filed flat and stained dark. Theories of the big bang the last century changed so massively as to contradict each other on basic boundaries of universal constant ranges we absolutely know.

On the other hand saving faith is a leap toward the light, not a shot in the dark .
Science is also build on conjecture, speculation and theory toward the light it sees, explaining data seen and testing it refining ideas

 

[omega2xx]

Imagine how silly all religions appear to someone who has never believed in one.
Is avoiding the use of electrical devices on Saturday or eating fish on Friday any
more cromulent than avoiding the underside of ladders or upper side of cracks?

I agree. Been there, one that. However there are no superstitions in Christianity, for those who undersatnd it.

 

[omega2xx]

Magic, witches, sorcerers. Read your Bible.

Study the Bible. Those things are not part of Christian beliefs. In fact they are condemned.

 

[Skwim]

Proper religion never ever has any superstition in it. The superstition part belongs to Agnosticism and the like. Please
Regards

Please what? Limit the discussion to what you regard as "proper religion." No thank you. At Least not without your definition of "proper religion" and "proper science."

And just how does superstition fit in "Agnosticism"?

 

[omega2xx]

Necessary for what?

To know the truth, silly.

 

[Shad]

Study the Bible. Those things are not part of Christian beliefs. In fact they are condemned.

My point went right over you head as usual. The fact that the Bible condemns something necessitates that these exist. You believe magic, witches, etc exist but are commanded not to become one or practice it. You believe magic is something people can actually do. If none of these existed there is nothing to condemn as it is a fiction. Your Bible does not treat these as a fiction, again you believe magic exists.

Magic has never been demonstrated to exist when done in a controlled setting. IE You believe in a set of claims that has no object evidence of existing which makes this a belief in superstition. A well accepted superstition but one none the less.

 

[Revoltingest]

I agree. Been there, one that. However there are no superstitions in Christianity, for those who undersatnd it.

Believers have a very different perspective from us heathens, who fail to appreciate the
difference between religious belief & superstition. This is because neither is testable.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

As they both are truthful.
Religion is higher in status. It covers the whole human life while science is confined in its limits. Religion supports science as it is useful for the human beings. Please
Regards

"Science" explain religion not religion explains science. We only know what we can observe, experience, perceive, and interpret based on ourselves, others, and our environment; that's science. Once we are comfortable with these things, religion becomes knowledge and fact not faith and belief (superstition). Until you get pass the first three things, religion will always be superstition.

How can religion not be superstition? Name something in your religion with god that is based on facts and supported by facts that every person in the world would understand without needing to believe in your religion to do so.​

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christian faith is not blind---Faith is the assurance of things hope for, the conviction of things not seen---Heb 11:1.

The definition of faith has blind in it. If it isn't blind, we would have knowledge and there'd be no hope for anything because we would know. Things would be "seen". Since they are not seen (blind) we have blind faith (trust) and hope that things we believe in are true.

Christianity is a blind-faith religion. It's based on trust. Faith that isn't blind isn't faith at all, it's knowledge. What Christian can say they believe in god is a fact without saying they need faith in their belief to say it is true? and if it isn't blind faith, then they don't need faith to state god exists because it would be true regardless of their belief.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Interjecting

As someone just said, "true religions have no superstitions. You being such an expert on religions, maybe you could post some superstitions Christianity has.

Superstition is "a widely held but unjustified belief in supernatural causation leading to certain consequences of an action or event, or a practice based on such a belief."

1. Name a universally justified (accepted, well-grounded) belief that god actually created the heavens and the earth and that god actually took a part of adam's rib to create Eve. This would not be based on your belief nor the authors of the Bible.

2. Jesus was resurrected to heaven and his mother, followers, and disciples saw him rise in both body and spirit to his father.

Name a well-grounded justification (universally accepted) that proves the validity of this event without relation to supernatural causes such as god to the event itself jesus rising in the flesh.

3. God told the Isrealite to kill men, women, and children.

Name a well-grounded and accepted argument (justification) that the Israelite actually received orders from the supernatural (god) that influence them to kill men, women, and children for position of what god told them was the promise land.

There are hundreds of examples of god (supernatural) causing a ongoing consequence of actions and events in the bible. The actual belief of this by believers is called a superstition.

There are a lot of superstition (beliefs that are not universally accepted and well-grounded) in the bible. Nothing wrong with that.

It does not mean it is false. It just means what believers use to justify their beliefs are not universally accepted as facts. So it is called a superstition.

What is wrong with that?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Nothing wrong with superstition, guys! Just means beliefs that are not well-grounded and universally accepted. That does not make the belief false. Just not supported. What is wrong with that? Many religions have unsupported beliefs. I've only known Christians and maybe Muslims have a problem with it, though. Other religious I met in person say that religion is personal; so, it does not need to be universally supported for it to be true. A lot of religious don't expect others to believe what they do because they weren't raised in their culture to accept these beliefs as facts.

 

[Shad]

Believers have a very different perspective from us heathens, who fail to appreciate the
difference between religious belief & superstition. This is because neither is testable.

The only difference is one is popular, has mainstream acceptance and is institutionalized. However religion is by definition a superstition as it not only fulfills the criteria but demonstrates it daily with worship of the supernatural as something which not only exists but interacts with reality, dictates reactions, beliefs, rituals, etc.

 

[Revoltingest]

The only difference is one is popular, has mainstream acceptance and is institutionalized. However religion is by definition a superstition as it not only fulfills the criteria but demonstrates it daily with worship of the supernatural as something which not only exists but interacts with reality, dictates reactions, beliefs, rituals, etc.

I'll buy that description.

 

[Shad]

I'll buy that description.

Better be for a dollar!

 

[omega2xx]

My point went right over you head as usual. The fact that the Bible condemns something necessitates that these exist. You believe magic, witches, etc exist but are commanded not to become one or practice it. You believe magic is something people can actually do. If none of these existed there is nothing to condemn as it is a fiction. Your Bible does not treat these as a fiction, again you believe magic exists.

You finally got something right. Your first post did go over my head, but now I am standing on a stool so this one will not. Magic and witchcraft abilities are given to some followers of Satan, but they are not part of Christian doctrines, except we are not allowed to accept anything that comes out of either practice.

Magic has never been demonstrated to exist when done in a controlled setting. IE You believe in a set of claims that has no object evidence of existing which makes this a belief in superstition. A well accepted superstition but one none the less.

There is evidence of both in the Bible.

Magic is mentioned in Acts 8:9 & 11 and 19:19. A witch is mentioned in Deut , 2 kings and 2 Chron.

 

[Shad]

You finally got something right. Your first post did go over my head, but now I am standing on a stool so this one will not. Magic and witchcraft abilities are given to some followers of Satan, but they are not part of Christian doctrines, except we are not allowed to accept anything that comes out of either practice.

Hence you confirmed my point.

There is evidence of both in the Bible.

No these are just claims

Magic is mentioned in Acts 8:9 & 11 and 19:19. A witch is mentioned in Deut , 2 kings and 2 Chron.

More claims, no different from some magic user or psychic using text to state their claims and abilities are true. IE Magic has never been verified to exist in a controlled setting. You believe in a superstition.

 

[omega2xx]

Believers have a very different perspective from us heathens, who fail to appreciate the
difference between religious belief & superstition. This is because neither is testable.

Spiritual concepts are never testable, but that does not make them false.

 

[omega2xx]

The definition of faith has blind in it. If it isn't blind, we would have knowledge and there'd be no hope for anything because we would know. Things would be "seen". Since they are not seen (blind) we have blind faith (trust) and hope that things we believe in are true.

The Biblical definition does not have blind in it. It has "assurance" and "conviction.." You are right that if we can see something it doe snot take faith to believe it exists. I have never seen God, but since the heavens declare His glory, I have faith that he is real. I hved neve seen heaven, but sonce Jesus spoke of it, my faith in Him makes me know it exists.

Christianity is a blind-faith religion. It's based on trust. Faith that isn't blind isn't faith at all, it's knowledge. What Christian can say they believe in god is a fact without saying they need faith in their belief to say it is true? and if it isn't blind faith, then they don't need faith to state god exists because it would be true regardless of their belief.

I;ll have to disagree with you here---By faith Moses law Him who is unseen(Heb 11:13). Read the 11th chapter of Hebrew sometime and see if you still believe faith is blind.

 

[omega2xx]

Interjecting



Superstition is "a widely held but unjustified belief in supernatural causation leading to certain consequences of an action or event, or a practice based on such a belief."

1. Name a universally justified (accepted, well-grounded) belief that god actually created the heavens and the earth and that god actually took a part of adam's rib to create Eve. This would not be based on your belief nor the authors of the Bible.

2. Jesus was resurrected to heaven and his mother, followers, and disciples saw him rise in both body and spirit to his father.

Name a well-grounded justification (universally accepted) that proves the validity of this event without relation to supernatural causes such as god to the event itself jesus rising in the flesh.

3. God told the Isrealite to kill men, women, and children.

Name a well-grounded and accepted argument (justification) that the Israelite actually received orders from the supernatural (god) that influence them to kill men, women, and children for position of what god told them was the promise land.

There are hundreds of examples of god (supernatural) causing a ongoing consequence of actions and events in the bible. The actual belief of this by believers is called a superstition.

There are a lot of superstition (beliefs that are not universally accepted and well-grounded) in the bible. Nothing wrong with that.

It does not mean it is false. It just means what believers use to justify their beliefs are not universally accepted as facts. So it is called a superstition.

What is wrong with that?

There are no universally accepted beliefs about spiritual concepts. There is not even universal acceptance that their is anything spiritual in the world. There is one universal belief---all societies, no matter how remote all have had a belief in a higher power and they all call it some kind of a god. Many religions have many gods. Eve wonder why this a universal belief?

Jn 1:9 - There was the true light which coming into the world, enlightens every man.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The Biblical definition does not have blind in it. It has "assurance" and "conviction.." You are right that if we can see something it doe snot take faith to believe it exists. I have never seen God, but since the heavens declare His glory, I have faith that he is real. I hved neve seen heaven, but sonce Jesus spoke of it, my faith in Him makes me know it exists.



I;ll have to disagree with you here---By faith Moses law Him who is unseen(Heb 11:13). Read the 11th chapter of Hebrew sometime and see if you still believe faith is blind.

I think everyone has a issue with the words rather than the meaning.

I have faith (trust in something that I cannot prove) that my grandmothers exist. It is blind because it is something I cannot prove. It's "invisible" trust/truth that I know in my heart is true regardless of what it is called. It's not based on something that I can see hence the reason it's called "blind."

On that note.

Your assurance and conviction does not mean you can see (by your post) what you believe and know is true. Since you cannot see it, it is considered "blind" or invisible. That does not invalidate what you believe. It just means it's not tangible.

Just because god, moses, and everyone can say it is true does not make it visible. It just means you have confirmation of what you believe is true. That doesn't mean it is not blind. You still need faith or a leap of faith/trust to believe in something you say you cannot see (you need trust to believe in something you are blinded by) but having confirmation doesn't make your faith less blind just substantiated by your experiences and testimonies you hold dear. Nothing wrong with that.

Faith is blind or it wouldn't be faith it would be fact. It's like looking into a deep abyss. You have confirmation that there is someone under the darkness that will catch you. Nothing wrong with that. But you still admit that you cannot see through that darkness. That means regardless of whose assuring you what's at the bottom, your faith is blinded until you make that jump. When you make that leap of faith (called blind faith or just faith) you are assured what you believe is true.

But as long as you need faith to believe it and don't claim it as knowledge or fact, it will be blind. Nothing wrong with believing in god by faith. I don't agree with living life off of faith or leap of faith (blind faith). I am sure and know that my grandmothers exist. I don't need faith for that. So it isn't blinded.

However, the christian faith says "hope for things unseen" and it says that what can be seen is not as important as what cannot be seen. Moses couldn't even see god's face. People have been killed for trying to find god and others turned into salt.

So, there's nothing wrong with blind faith. Call it leap of faith or taking a chance or hope. But in the end, because you don't know, it is always something you cannot see. Another word for "not being able to see" is being blind.

Nothing wrong with that, right?