Madsaac
Active Member
I suppose but in general does religion really live up to what it says it does, especially for others?
Has it done more harm compared to the harm, if it didn't exist?
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Religion - Some Questions
- Thread starter Madsaac
- Start date
I suppose but in general does religion really live up to what it says it does, especially for others?
Has it done more harm compared to the harm, if it didn't exist?
Madsaac
Active Member
That's the point and you agree 'I find even as atheist can be a neighborly good-person Samaritan in showing practical love for others.'
If this is so, knowing about Gods Kingdom etc is not necessary.
We don't need Jesus to tell us how to be good, could it be anyone with as much love in his heart?
Madsaac
Active Member
Yes but these human beings with weaknesses are motivated by religious beliefs, they are one together.
So in turn, religion is the catalyst, the kindling for the fire, the foundation on which this hate exists. Religion becomes then one with the person.
muhammad_isa
Veteran Member
Is it "religious beliefs", or is it tribalism??
It is more deep than that..
Why did those who persecuted Jesus do so?
Many Christians would say that it is because he said he was God .. but NO!
The main reason is because he was a threat to them .. a threat to their status..
..a threat to their privileged position.
Thta's not religion .. that's love of wealth and power.
I am a Hindu. I am more than happy about how I practice it and what I get out of it. There is nothing like religion in general, just as there is nothing like a nation-state in general. You can get North Korea or Sweden....religion is also similar. What religion and how a person practices it matters far more than generalizations.
Difficult to say. Religion has always existed. There has been very good non-religious societies (like Sweden) and very bad non-religious societies (like USSR). There has never been a controlled experiment where every factor apart from a religious belief was kept same and then religious belief was turned on or off to see the effects. So anybody can claim anything.
In todays' world nationalism causes far more suffering and death compared to religion as far as I can see. So, in my view, the most harmful ideology in today's world is nationalism. Mixing the emotions of religious faith (or emotions of ethnic identity) with the exclusionary and superiority complex of nationalist ideology, and you get the worst brew in the world.
One doesn't have to be a socialist to share or care. It fact it seems to me that socialism takes the sharing and caring part out of the public's hands and puts it into the governments hands. It takes away any personal responsibility.
I think a lot of suffering has been caused in the name of religion. However a lot of suffering has been cause in the name of none religious ideas, like socialism. So I'd think an idea by itself doesn't cause suffering but how people go about implementing that idea certainly can. It's a matter of the freedom to choose. It you take that away and put it into the hands of government for example that is when you are more likely to cause others to suffer.
Belief in some existence after you die usually develops into some form of religion. IOW, if you believe in some kind of afterlife, someone is likely to make a religion about it. A religion is just a gathering of like minded folk.
PureX
Veteran Member
There are several reasons why someone would adopt or continue a religious habit, but the most common one is that doing do serves them in some way that they want to be served. In other words, most Christians are not asking themselves how can they serve Christ, they are asking themselves how can Christ serve them? And as a result they can go to church on Sunday and bask in the commerodery and righteousness of their religiosity, and then go to work on Monday morning busily screwing their fellow man out of every penny they can get, and not even notice the incongruity. Because in their own minds and hearts, it's all about serving themselves. On Sunday, and on Monday.
And the same is true of the conquests and murder and mayhem done throughout history in the name of religion. The religion was really just an excuse people used to pretend to themselves and others that they were justified doing whatever they wanted to do to other people.
We often speak as if religions dictate our behavior, but in fact most of the time people's desires and behavior is determining their ideology, including their religious ideology. Not the other way round. So for those who hate socialism, for example, Jesus was NOT a socialist. For those who want to rape, rob, and pillage, God tells them that's what they should do because the world deserves it. Or if they want to burn witches, or torture homosexuals, or do whatever to whomever. Somehow their religion condones it.
There are people that do try to use their religion to make themselves better humans. A lot of them, in fact. But they aren't the ones anyone notices. And we just assume that they are naturally good people to begin with, and maybe they are, at that. But they nevertheless quietly use their faith in God to help them stay good people when so many around them don't.
Religions are only a collection of ideological and spiritual tools. And they are only as good as the people using them. We can use a hammer to build ourselves a home, or we can use it to kill our neighbor and steal his home. And that isn't the hammer's fault.
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TagliatelliMonster
Veteran Member
Not exactly - or at least, it depends on the religion.
Christianity and islam for example tend to teach an "us vs them" mentality. They also teach quite a bit intolerance like homophobia and are pretty mysoginistic.
They also teach that slavery is not a problem. There also isn't a lot of compassion in the stoning of "adulturers", chopping of the hands of thieves or eternal damnation for finite "crimes" -or worse: for the "crime" of disbelief
You'ld have to be cherry picking the scriptures to say otherwise.
That's assanine.
That's like saying that living in North Korea is like living in heaven unless you don't follow the rules of the Great Leader.
You could say the exact same thing about living under ANY dictator. "Follow the rules and you'll be fine."
This is why what theists, fundamentalists especially, call "love, compassion and mercy" is anything but that.
Mercy and compassion for example are completely void of meaning in the absence of transgressions and suffering.
Mercy is the suspension of justice. You can't have "perfect justice" and "mercy" exist simultanously.
It's like having courage in the absense of fear. Courage is only meaningful in specific context. Courage is not the absence of fear. Courage is the will to go on in the presence of fear. Without such context, "courage" doesn't mean anything.
Same is true with mercy and compassion. Absent any transgressions or suffering, both mercy and compassion don't mean anything. There is no use for it.
Except when what the religion calls "love", is really hate.
Except when the religion teaches hate and masquerades it as "love".
Religion is not in my opinion same as Christianity, because a Christian is a disciple of Jesus. And disciple of Jesus is a person who remain s in word of Jesus. I don't think religion is the same and perhaps religions are not very good.
…The disciples were first called Christians in Antioch.
Acts 11:26
Jesus therefore said to those Jews who had believed him, “If you remain in my word, then you are truly my disciples. You will know the truth, and the truth will make you free.”
John 8:31-32
If a person remains in word of Jesus, I think it means he lives by the teachings of Jesus. It means they should be generous. However, I think Christians generally give probably even too much and in a way that is more harmful than good. That is why I would like to know more specifically, to whom and what Christians should give something more? What you say sounds extremely greedy. Do you think it is ok to be greedy?
No, I don't think so. Socialism is evil and tyrannical.
Welcome to RF.
The way I see it, there is a lot of effort to conclude that people ultimately believe in the same things or are bound to eventually come to that point.
That makes the ideas somewhat difficult to understand, because we have to deal with confusion that is to a large extent intentional and deliberate, if often somewhat well-meaning.
Christianity is both a vocation and a social duty, depending on the moment, on the circunstances and on the interlocutor.
Religion is... a rather vague concept that people have largely learned not to question because questioning it tends to cause unease to certain groups of people.
It can be anything from some inherited set of behaviors and vocabulary that is required for acceptance in certain communities (each with its own version of the set and internal variations to boot) to certain practices and perspectives that are very individual in nature and in significance.
The way I see it, there is a lot of effort to conclude that people ultimately believe in the same things or are bound to eventually come to that point.
That makes the ideas somewhat difficult to understand, because we have to deal with confusion that is to a large extent intentional and deliberate, if often somewhat well-meaning.
Christianity is both a vocation and a social duty, depending on the moment, on the circunstances and on the interlocutor.
Religion is... a rather vague concept that people have largely learned not to question because questioning it tends to cause unease to certain groups of people.
It can be anything from some inherited set of behaviors and vocabulary that is required for acceptance in certain communities (each with its own version of the set and internal variations to boot) to certain practices and perspectives that are very individual in nature and in significance.
I see religion as a necessary ingredient for justice, but it's not a sufficient reason for justice. That is just because God's guidance is there, does not mean people will follow it. Likewise, I see that a leader from God alive is necessary for justice, but it does not mean if he is alive, the world will accept him and hence it is necessary for guidance, but not sufficient.
Without God's guidance though there is no chance of justice.
Without God's guidance though there is no chance of justice.
Madsaac
Active Member
Wow, some great insights and plenty to reflect upon.
I just think religion is a thing of the past that was created to explain the unexplainable and to help 'galvanise' groups of people, with some thinking they are better than others in various ways. Eg, men and women
However today we can can explain the unexplainable and it has been proven that we can live together with respect without the need of religion
I just think religion is a thing of the past that was created to explain the unexplainable and to help 'galvanise' groups of people, with some thinking they are better than others in various ways. Eg, men and women
However today we can can explain the unexplainable and it has been proven that we can live together with respect without the need of religion
I would recommend studying some basic cultural anthropology and a more cross-cultural understanding of religion. While the narrative you present here is a popular one these days, it doesn't hold much water when looking at the origins of religion, its inseparability from culture, and the nature of the human. When humans stop being rational, thinking animals then and only then will there be no need of religion. For it is then humans won't be asking big, existential questions of life and living and myth and meaning.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe He was to some extent but it was not a main focus and not even a command. What Jesus emphasized was helping people in your path who needed help. The parable of the good Samaritan is one example.
I believe what it show is that pretend Christianity doesn't work. Real Christianity does.
I was never worried about that but I was concerned about the direction my life was taking.
I believe I had religious tendencies carried over from a previous life but don't remember how that happened. My parents sent us to Sunday School but only attended church Christmas and Easter. It was my grandmother who was religious and a good example for me.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe I do not agree.
Muffled
Jesus in me
I believe He did not have a problem with hiring workers and paying them unequal wages.
Echogem222
Active Member
No, it suggests that religions like the ones that caused that much suffering don't work. What you're doing is an overgeneralization of all religions, assuming they're all basically the same. Perhaps it would serve you well to learn about my religion, Flawlessism (just google "Flawlessism" and click the link to the subreddit on Reddit.com), or maybe just research more religions in general, as it would seem that your awareness of this subject is very limited.
And even the religions which do cause so much suffering, your reasoning only implies they're a possible issue, after all, you could say that the long history of government indicates they don't work, yet what do we see happened? Governments didn't stop being a thing, they evolved, and just like governments, religions have evolved over time as well. Even without much research, your reasoning is very, very poor. So aside from just doing more research, I would also suggest not jumping to conclusions so easily since that does have a lot of evidence of leading to harm and rather pointless conflicts.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I believe that knowledge of God's kingdom is helpful and virtually essential, even though many might not think so. I do.
Psalm 18:16 -
He reached down from on high;
He took hold of me and pulled me from deep waters.
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Viker
Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Not all religions are the same in every way. Many don't concern themselves with truth or absolute claims, claims of paradise nor damnation. Religion can heal. Religion can unite. Religion can inflict suffering. Religion can destroy.
I am drawn to my personal religion, In Diabolica, of my own volition out of burning desire. It's not here to save a faithful world or condemn it for non-compliance/disbelief.
I am drawn to my personal religion, In Diabolica, of my own volition out of burning desire. It's not here to save a faithful world or condemn it for non-compliance/disbelief.