Religion Vs. Atheism = Pessimism Vs. Optimism?

[Phasmid]

I'm agnostic. I want to believe in God and be a Christian and be oh so happy, but my brain wont quite let me. Not only does my mind pick holes in the Christian faith, but it also gives me a view of 2 possible futures.

Either (and remember this is my mind, hence the Christianity and not another religion) Christianity is correct and at some point God's going to come down and cause a lot of pain and missery.

Or there is no God and at some point, with time, effort, pain and determination we'll reach a state similar to that in the Star Trek universe. There'll be no currency, no war, no inequality... just a desire to gain knowledge and explore and understand the universe *breathes a sigh of geek love*

Which, is more appealing, I wonder?

 

[Francine]

Which, is more appealing, I wonder?

Everybody wins. Atheists get what they want, oblivion after death. They are a line segment and they come to a terminating point. Theist get what we want, to share Christ's risen life for eternity. We are a line, and we have no endpoint.

 

[Phasmid]

Everybody wins. Atheists get what they want, oblivion after death. They are a line segment and they come to a terminating point. Theist get what we want, to share Christ's risen life for eternity. We are a line, and we have no endpoint.

So your view of Hell is...?

 

[Jistyr]

Everybody wins. Atheists get what they want, oblivion after death. They are a line segment and they come to a terminating point. Theist get what we want, to share Christ's risen life for eternity. We are a line, and we have no endpoint.

This is assuming that the theists' or atheists' viewpoints are actually true. Yet like all such speculations, it is impossible to be certain.

 

[Francine]

So your view of Hell is...?

My view of Hell lines up with the JW or Seventh Day Adventist Hell... I am annihilationist.

 

[Phasmid]

I am annihilationist.

Neat... if Terminators had religious views, I imagine they'd be on par with yours.

 

[Kingfrog]

For me, Hell is the loss of love......See my thread.
Your brain won't let you becasue you believe your brain SHOULD be able to understand ALL THINGS.

200 Years ago most if not ALL people would have never believed a multi ton hunk of metal could carry hundreds of people around the world at 300,000 feet high at 600MPH. That is where you are in your belief system.

A great Book to read is A Case for Faith" written by a Lawyer/Journalist who uses those disciplines to make a case for the existence or NON existence of God. He made a "Case for Faith"
You can get that book used on Amazon for lesss than $6......That $6 May change your life.

 

[Phasmid]

For me, Hell is the loss of love......See my thread.
Your brain won't let you becasue you believe your brain SHOULD be able to understand ALL THINGS.

200 Years ago most if not ALL people would have never believed a multi ton hunk of metal could carry hundreds of people around the world at 300,000 feet high at 600MPH. That is where you are in your belief system.

A great Book to read is A Case for Faith" written by a Lawyer/Journalist who uses those disciplines to make a case for the existence or NON existence of God. He made a "Case for Faith"
You can get that book used on Amazon for lesss than $6......That $6 May change your life.

It probably would, for about 10 minutes. The moment I try to be religious... some annoying question will come up in my head and I'll instantly think, "Ah ha! It's all just rubbish after all". Christianity has changed me a lot... in fact it's made me a much better person and more confident, I enjoyed it, even if it was difficult, but there are so many questions and no satisfying answers. I can't just accept it... I need something.

 

[Kingfrog]

It probably would, for about 10 minutes. The moment I try to be religious... some annoying question will come up in my head and I'll instantly think, "Ah ha! It's all just rubbish after all". Christianity has changed me a lot... in fact it's made me a much better person and more confident, I enjoyed it, even if it was difficult, but there are so many questions and no satisfying answers. I can't just accept it... I need something.

I have delt and deal with the SAME struggle. My intellect always wants to travel the paved road rather then the one least traveled. You must put YOUR intellect asdie and open your mind th[ot that which you KNOW but cannot explain to begin....

NEW LOVE..You have felt it it, you know it. Its the most wonderful thing. You cannot explain it. thousands of songs have tried. Yet you cannot create it either in yourself or others. You cannot CAUSE it. But you KNOW it's there. That is how I come to grips with faith. Church does not do it for me. Bible thumpers do not do it for me.

The feeling of Love and the separation of love explains it all for me. Heaven and Hell. You cannot take pills or do anything to create or erase it the Love or Loss of love

When you breal things down into simplest terms understanding is easier.

 

[Sunstone]

I'm agnostic. I want to believe in God and be a Christian and be oh so happy, but my brain wont quite let me. Not only does my mind pick holes in the Christian faith, but it also gives me a view of 2 possible futures.

Either (and remember this is my mind, hence the Christianity and not another religion) Christianity is correct and at some point God's going to come down and cause a lot of pain and missery.

Or there is no God and at some point, with time, effort, pain and determination we'll reach a state similar to that in the Star Trek universe. There'll be no currency, no war, no inequality... just a desire to gain knowledge and explore and understand the universe *breathes a sigh of geek love*

Which, is more appealing, I wonder?

Both of your futures strike me as implausible.

 

[Phasmid]

Both of your futures strike me as implausible.

Why's that?

 

[Sunstone]

Why's that?

In the first place, the Biblical deity strikes me as absurd, so I don't have much faith that deity will return to intervene in human history. In the second place, I don't think humans will ever create the sort of Utopian socialist/military society dedicated to peace and knowledge that is depicted in Star Trek.

 

[Francine]

Neat... if Terminators had religious views, I imagine they'd be on par with yours.

Uh, annihiliationism means the belief that souls of those who do not attain to eternal life are erased from existence, as though they were never born.

 

[Scuba Pete]

Which, is more appealing, I wonder?

Neither. What counts is loving your fellow man. After all, that's what theism is all about. If you can get there without it, then good for you.

 

[logician]

Everybody wins. Atheists get what they want, oblivion after death. They are a line segment and they come to a terminating point. Theist get what we want, to share Christ's risen life for eternity. We are a line, and we have no endpoint.

This post makes it seem like entry to heaven is certain for "theists". First of all, not all theists, are Christian, second of all, Christians believe in hell, so a lot might go there according to them.

 

[agent_smith]

Phasmid, you are a smart guy. You've realised how irrational and evil religion is.

All you need to do now is take that final step and say to yourself "God does not exist". After that, you can look back at religion and everything makes complete sense... the bible has contradictions and mistakes for exactly the same reason that Harry Potter does.

 

[fantome profane]

In the first place, the Biblical deity strikes me as absurd, so I don't have much faith that deity will return to intervene in human history. In the second place, I don't think humans will ever create the sort of Utopian socialist/military society dedicated to peace and knowledge that is depicted in Star Trek.

And even if the Humans do manage to create this kind of peaceful society, I highly doubt the Klingons ever will.

 

[McBell]

And even if the Humans do manage to create this kind of peaceful society, I highly doubt the Klingons ever will.

But the Borg will, given enough time to assimilate everything.
Interestingly enough, that is what the heaven most Christians I know talk about
it being like.
Borg assimilation.

 

[Somkid]

Do you want someone to tell you what to think?

 

[Scuba Pete]

Phasmid, you are a smart guy. You've realised how irrational and evil religion is.

Please, this is as vapid as it is a GROSS oversimplification of the issue. PEOPLE are irrational and evil, including YOU and ME. Atheists have demonstrated the same propensity for cruelty and hate as theists. It is simply not a function of your professed faith.