Religion: What is it?

[LuisDantas]

There is certainly a lot of confusion and ambiguity regarding what would be "proper" definitions for "religion" and related concepts.

So much so, that it is almost a toss-up to decide if any random person thinks of religion as something to be practiced or rather to be avoided. And that is before attempting to specify which religion it would be.

My best advice is to attempt to give context whenever possible when some reference to religion is made.

 

[Cobol]

I don't follow. You're saying that all religion - a universal cultural phenomena that inspires great works of art and literature, that brings people together in celebration and gratitude, that brings meaningfulness to people's lives, and that helps guide people on their life paths - is the biggest mistake of humanity? You might as well say that the failure of humanity to render itself extinct is the biggest mistake of it.

If you're going to pick a "biggest mistake" at least name something that is generally considered to have made no positive contributions to human civilization. You know... like genocide.

Religion in general has been killing people for thousands of year. the 6 million jews killed during the holocaust, the untold and the untold amount of people killed during the crusades, the catholic church has been condoning the killing of people over religion since Christianity was made the official religion of the roman empire.

The number of deaths do to the three main religions is so high there are no statistics that can include for every person that has fell victim to them. All religious wars, all acts of genocide and all cases of religiously motivated terrorism are defined by hatred. Hatred of those who think differently. Religion is the most divisive and destructive idea of all time.

 

[Quintessence]

Religion in general has been killing people for thousands of year. the 6 million jews killed during the holocaust, the untold and the untold amount of people killed during the crusades, the catholic church has been condoning the killing of people over religion since Christianity was made the official religion of the roman empire.

The number of deaths do to the three main religions is so high there are no statistics that can include for every person that has fell victim to them. All religious wars, all acts of genocide and all cases of religiously motivated terrorism are defined by hatred. Hatred of those who think differently. Religion is the most divisive and destructive idea of all time.

May I ask who taught you this story? And why you believe it?

I'm also not clear on what "religion in general" is. I don't see a "religion in general." There are tens of thousands of religions, with different beliefs and practices. How do you generalize about that?

 

[Cobol]

May I ask who taught you this story? And why you believe it?

I'm also not clear on what "religion in general" is. I don't see a "religion in general." There are tens of thousands of religions, with different beliefs and practices. How do you generalize about that?

It's simply not a story. If you follow history and religion, you would know this already. I can't have a debate with anybody who denies the facts.

The reason i pick on religion is because it is the only divisive factor where a better alternative already exists. History has shown that religion is a very bad way to arrive at truth, because most concrete religious claims that have since been tested have turned out to be wrong – or “metaphorical,” as religious people like to call it.

I'm not speaking of every religion in the world. I am mainly targeting the three major religions, but there all divisive.

 

[Quintessence]

It's simply not a story. If you follow history and religion, you would know this already. I can't have a debate with anybody who denies the facts.

History is story - the way it is told is not a simple matter of the facts. There is much interpretation and speculation involved. It is not like the sciences, where we can quantify and analyze with statistics with experimental and control groups. This makes it very difficult to identify causal variables and assess their relative contributions to events. I've yet to sees any persuasive evidence that religions (yes, plural) have been the primary driver of most wars. I often see this story told by people who, for some reason or another, have an axe to grind against what they believe is "religion," though.

The reason i pick on religion is because it is the only divisive factor where a better alternative already exists.

A few questions. What do you mean by "better?" Are you sure this "better" would apply to all people, or might someone reasonably disagree with your vision of what this "better" is? What is this "alternative" you are talking about? What it is the alternative for? What is its purpose?

History has shown that religion is a very bad way to arrive at truth, because most concrete religious claims that have since been tested have turned out to be wrong – or “metaphorical,” as religious people like to call it.

As far as I'm aware, truth claims are not the sole purpose of any religion. For the religions that make truth claims on a regular basis (which only certain branches of Christianity and Islam seem to do), such claims haven't struck me as the primary function amongst the many functions these religions have for their adherents either. Those Christian and Islamic traditions strike me more as about establishing social norms, articulating cultural values, and providing venues for social interactions.

I'm not speaking of every religion in the world. I am mainly targeting the three major religions, but there all divisive.

In the sense that all religions are articulations of values, and that peoples around the world do not share the same values, yes, they are going to clash at times. That said, I like diversity. Divisiveness is one of many consequences of diversity. Do you like diversity? Or do you want everyone thinking, believing, and doing exactly the same thing?

 

[Cobol]

History is story - the way it is told is not a simple matter of the facts. There is much interpretation and speculation involved. It is not like the sciences, where we can quantify and analyze with statistics with experimental and control groups. This makes it very difficult to identify causal variables and assess their relative contributions to events. I've yet to sees any persuasive evidence that religions (yes, plural) have been the primary driver of most wars. I often see this story told by people who, for some reason or another, have an axe to grind against what they believe is "religion," though.

Since the awakening of religion, wars have been fought in the name of different gods and goddesses. Still today most violent conflicts contain religious elements linked up with ethno-national, inter-state, economic, territorial, cultural and other issues. Threatening the meaning of life, conflicts based on religion tend to become dogged, tenacious and brutal.

A few questions. What do you mean by "better?" Are you sure this "better" would apply to all people, or might someone reasonably disagree with your vision of what this "better" is? What is this "alternative" you are talking about? What it is the alternative for? What is its purpose?

Secular alternatives are not Religions in themselves, but they are presented as ideas or ideologies or to which man can commit himself so deeply & unreservedly that they replace religion in him. A person can opt for one of the modern ideologies rather than a religious adherence to give him guidance in life.

 

[allfoak]

Secular alternatives are not Religions in themselves, but they are presented as ideas or ideologies or to which man can commit himself so deeply & unreservedly that they replace religion in him. A person can opt for one of the modern ideologies rather than a religious adherence to give him guidance in life.

Would you say that guidance is the purpose for religion?

 

[allfoak]

Look Mom!
66 posts, still on topic and no rules broken.

Someone looking for a miracle?

 

[Cobol]

Would you say that guidance is the purpose for religion?

Every sane person on the planet knows right from wrong without needing a religion to tell them. It's a natural instinct of all animals and probably the only remaining animal instinct in humans that is beneficial. In many cases religion only alters and blurs what is right and wrong. Killing is wrong, but killing in the name of god seems to be okay. History and present day prove that to be true. Many religions enforce these altered ideas of right and wrong with blind faith and self-righteous attitudes, which in turn, creates more problems pertaining to ethics and morals. I firmly believe the most ethical and moral human beings are the ones who know right from wrong and also have no affiliation to any religion.

 

[Quintessence]

Since the awakening of religion, wars have been fought in the name of different gods and goddesses. Still today most violent conflicts contain religious elements linked up with ethno-national, inter-state, economic, territorial, cultural and other issues. Threatening the meaning of life, conflicts based on religion tend to become dogged, tenacious and brutal.

Why do you crusade against what you perceive to be "religion" instead of all those other things you listed? Why do you seem to ignore all the positive things "religion" produces?

Secular alternatives are not Religions in themselves, but they are presented as ideas or ideologies or to which man can commit himself so deeply & unreservedly that they replace religion in him. A person can opt for one of the modern ideologies rather than a religious adherence to give him guidance in life.

I'm having a bit of trouble following you here. This doesn't sound any different from religions to me. It sounds like you are replacing religion with... uh... more religion. ?

 

[allfoak]

Every sane person on the planet knows right from wrong without needing a religion to tell them. It's a natural instinct of all animals and probably the only remaining animal instinct in humans that is beneficial. In many cases religion only alters and blurs what is right and wrong. Killing is wrong, but killing in the name of god seems to be okay. History and present day prove that to be true. Many religions enforce these altered ideas of right and wrong with blind faith and self-righteous attitudes, which in turn, creates more problems pertaining to ethics and morals. I firmly believe the most ethical and moral human beings are the ones who know right from wrong and also have no affiliation to any religion.

Perhaps guidance was the original purpose.

 

[Cobol]

I'm having a bit of trouble following you here. This doesn't sound any different from religions to me. It sounds like you are replacing religion with... uh... more religion. ?

Volunteering, working with underprivileged youth, the poor, working with the disabled are examples.

Now, you might respond that Christians are avid volunteer workers. You’re right. Between raising money for the Boy Scout troop, the new gymnasium. Christians are constantly searching for ways to spread the good news. Except, sometimes, their volunteering is a sneaky cover for a more everlasting mission. Want a sandwich, poor person? Take this ham and cheese AND this pamphlet to learn how you can never be hungry. Ever. Again. Which makes it less selfless volunteering and more experiential marketing.

 

[Quintessence]

Now, you might respond that Christians are avid volunteer workers.

Why would a non-Christian respond with a Christian example?

Between raising money for the Boy Scout troop, the new gymnasium. Christians are constantly searching for ways to spread the good news. Except, sometimes, their volunteering is a sneaky cover for a more everlasting mission. Want a sandwich, poor person? Take this ham and cheese AND this pamphlet to learn how you can never be hungry. Ever. Again. Which makes it less selfless volunteering and more experiential marketing.

Uh... are you under the impression that proselytizing traditions of Christianity are the only religions that exist? Or even that all Christian traditions do this? Hell, I'm not even a Christian and I recognize that this is not the case.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm not speaking of every religion in the world. I am mainly targeting the three major religions, but there all divisive.

Have to interject. You can't base religion (all religions) off of a selective few. Religion doesn't kill. People kill in the name of their religion. I never saw Wiccans get into a fuss and start killing people. UUs seem to be quiet too even though they were part of the Church before the Church claimed they broke off rather than the other way around. Not all Pagan groups kill others while other religions are practiced by solitary practitioners like myself with whom believes any form of killing is wrong.

You have to be more specific when talking about religion. When you say religion is X, you are putting a boat load of religions and religious who disagree with you and are still called religions.

 

[Mr Perks]

As I see it, religion is simply a person's path to their God, the Divine, whatever name each person might use. However, once religion ceases to become a personal experience, in the revealed religions, where religious instruction can easily sink to mushroom management, where people are told what to believe, often under extreme duress, where there is a call for total faith, not only in the spiritual but in the temporal, accepting the words of the priesthood, it ceases to be an instrument of manipulation and control. I can see how the revealed religions can perform their prime function but only in a few cases - religion should not be a matter of following manmade dogma, with its illogical prohibitions, with its atavistic clinging to an earlier age of no relevance to today.

 

[Cobol]

Why would a non-Christian respond with a Christian example?

I'm not going to deny that religions do some charity work, but some don't. I just picked Christianity out of the main three, for no particular reason.

Uh... are you under the impression that proselytizing traditions of Christianity are the only religions that exist? Or even that all Christian traditions do this? Hell, I'm not even a Christian and I recognize that this is not the case.

I am fully aware of this. I was just trying to indicate, or bring to notice that fact.

Have to interject. You can't base religion (all religions) off of a selective few. Religion doesn't kill. People kill in the name of their religion. I never saw Wiccans get into a fuss and start killing people. UUs seem to be quiet too even though they were part of the Church before the Church claimed they broke off rather than the other way around. Not all Pagan groups kill others while other religions are practiced by solitary practitioners like myself with whom believes any form of killing is wrong.

You have to be more specific when talking about religion. When you say religion is X, you are putting a boat load of religions and religious who disagree with you and are still called religions.

I would use the term cult to describe a minority religion, and i never said all religions kill.

 

[allfoak]

Cult is just the first half of the word culture.

 

[Vinayaka]

I had a visit this morning from two young men. One spoke and other remained silent.

I presume they were Mormons because of their modus operandi, but other than Islam, I do not give a damn about people’s religion so long they do not try to force it onto me.

More likely JWs, in my experience. Generally with Mormons both will speak.

 

[Vinayaka]

There is certainly a lot of confusion and ambiguity regarding what would be "proper" definitions for "religion" and related concepts.

I've heard that several belief systems had to get governments to allow them to use the term 'religion' to describe themselves, just to get rights. For example, land is zoned 'for religious use' and if Hindus, Taoist, Buddhists, etc., say they aren't a religion, then they weren't allowed to apply for that land, and get the local government bonuses that went with it.

 

[Vinayaka]

I'm not going to deny that religions do some charity work, but some don't. I just picked Christianity out of the main three, for no particular reason.

Which 3 would that be? By this chart?

Top 3 religions by population - Google Search