Religion without an Afterlife

[Penumbra]

It seems like an afterlife is a key topic in many current religions. There are some exceptions, but it's a pretty strong trend.

Would you adhere to your current religion if there was no promise of an afterlife? For instance, if Allah revealed something like the Qur'an but offered no afterlife to Muslims or anyone, or if Jesus preached for people to love their enemies and neighbors and to avoid sin but that when you die, you're dead, so just make the world a better place while you're here, or if there was no afterlife in Hinduism, or if your pantheon of gods didn't offer you an afterlife, etc.

Undoubtedly these religions would be significantly altered without the afterlife, because for some of them, their entire model and cosmology would be changed, but when answering try to keep it as simple as possible. If most of the aspects of your religion were still around, and you still believed your god(s) to be real, but without any afterlife involved, would you bother to be a part of your current religion or no? Would the benefits of your religion, whatever it is that they happen to be, be worth it in this life?

And if you currently adhere to a religion that does not involve an afterlife or downplays it significantly, then you can contribute to the thread by explaining what benefits you receive from your religion in this life.

Thanks,
-Lyn

 

[LuisDantas]

For the life of me, I don't understand why afterlifes would be so important. They're completely speculative, leave little hint as to what to do with this life that we know to exist, and they are not even particularlty constructive as moral concepts.

There is some talk in Buddhism doctrine that is sometimes understood to refer to some sort of afterlife, but I don't think it is a very accurate or very useful interpretation of same. It is far better to see them as symbolism for mental states and attitudes.

Nor do I think that is much of a peculiarity from Buddhism, either. IMO religion is and should be first and foremost about dealing with the know realities of everyday life. About nurturing constructive attitudes in this web of connected relationships that we are all a part of.

Even assuming that there is some sort of afterlife, well, I don't see why it would have to be dealt with in a significantly different way from the normal life.

 

[EverChanging]

I am skeptical that consciousness survives the death of the brain and body, although certainly many of my rituals and so forth have to do with the idea of life enduring endlessly, but it doesn't have to be so literal for me. Religion should bring us into the present moment, not have us speculating about afterlives. For me, "eternal" life is this present moment. This present moment, and all that it contains, including the infinitesimal fraction of it all, this illusion I call my self, is a part of all things. It is all right here,right now. The present moment is eternal. The present moment is all there is. To live this truth is to obtain immortality.

I am also convinced that there really is no self to die anyway. Separation is an illusion created by our brains. No self, no free will, no death -- only this moment.

 

[Eliot Wild]

. . . if Allah revealed something like the Qur'an but offered no afterlife to Muslims or anyone, or if Jesus preached for people to love their enemies and neighbors and to avoid sin but that when you die, you're dead, so just make the world a better place while you're here . . .

Actually, I can think of no other reason to search for truth than to make the world a better place while I'm here. Everything else seems to defeat the purpose for me.

However, I guess it would be nice to have a comfortable oldstone four-bedroom apartment with a view of Saturn's rings and a street paved with gold running right up to my holy driveway where I could have summer cookouts with Jesus every night for all eternity. We'll let Him bring the wine. Ha!!!

 

[Satans_Serrated_Edge]

I am already a part of a religion that makes no empty claims about cosmology. I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[EverChanging]

However, I guess it would be nice to have a comfortable oldstone four-bedroom apartment with a view of Saturn's rings and a street paved with gold running right up to my holy driveway where I could have summer cookouts with Jesus every night for all eternity. We'll let Him bring the wine. Ha!!!

Eh...I'd get bored. Eternal life, in the traditional sense of the term, is not all it's cracked up to be.

 

[Eliot Wild]

Eh...I'd get bored. Eternal life, in the traditional sense of the term, is not all it's cracked up to be.

Well, that's 'cause you're not imagining living forever with a crazy scotch buzz. My understanding is that experiencing heaven is like living in a happy hour without end where the bar munchies are hydrocodone tabs and the smoking section has free whippits and the best Bob Marley reefer one can grow in holy soil.

 

[Breathe]

If most of the aspects of your religion were still around, and you still believed your god(s) to be real, but without any afterlife involved, would you bother to be a part of your current religion or no?

Yeah, I would be. If I followed a belief system only because I was expecting a reward in the afterlife then I would appear to be pretty selfish, in my opinion.

Would the benefits of your religion, whatever it is that they happen to be, be worth it in this life?

Inner peace, compassion, self improvement, and love.


My opinion, anyway.

 

[LuisDantas]

Could it be that RF don't attract the kind of people who value an afterlife?

 

[Penumbra]

For the life of me, I don't understand why afterlifes would be so important. They're completely speculative, leave little hint as to what to do with this life that we know to exist, and they are not even particularlty constructive as moral concepts.

There is some talk in Buddhism doctrine that is sometimes understood to refer to some sort of afterlife, but I don't think it is a very accurate or very useful interpretation of same. It is far better to see them as symbolism for mental states and attitudes.

Nor do I think that is much of a peculiarity from Buddhism, either. IMO religion is and should be first and foremost about dealing with the know realities of everyday life. About nurturing constructive attitudes in this web of connected relationships that we are all a part of.

Even assuming that there is some sort of afterlife, well, I don't see why it would have to be dealt with in a significantly different way from the normal life.

Well it seems to me that an afterlife plays a huge role in most current religions, but it depends on the religion. Judaism, for instance, downplays the afterlife quite a bit.

In Buddhism, there is Samsara, the cycle of death and rebirth. Teachings allow one to stop this process and stop suffering. With Hinduism, one also reincarnates in various realms but the ultimate goal is to reach Moksha, union with god. In Christianity, Jesus offers eternal life, and many of his teachings revolve around justice and mercy. (Like the meek shall inherit the earth, mercy will be shown to the merciful, etc.)In Islam, life is said to be a test, and Allah gives paradise to those that follow him if he so chooses. And some pagan religions have an afterlife as well. Jews generally seem to believe in an afterlife too, but seem to view it as not all that important to worry about now.

An afterlife provides wiggle-room for belief in a benevolent god, too. For instance, if one believes in a loving god, but then their child dies of some sort of childhood cancer, then they can say that they are with god in the afterlife or something along those lines. Anything about this life that they don't understand and that doesn't seem to be loving is often addressed by taking an afterlife into account. If someone believed in a benevolent deity that offers no afterlife, and their child dies of childhood cancer, there is likely to be some cognitive dissonance.

I am skeptical that consciousness survives the death of the brain and body, although certainly many of my rituals and so forth have to do with the idea of life enduring endlessly, but it doesn't have to be so literal for me. Religion should bring us into the present moment, not have us speculating about afterlives. For me, "eternal" life is this present moment. This present moment, and all that it contains, including the infinitesimal fraction of it all, this illusion I call my self, is a part of all things. It is all right here,right now. The present moment is eternal. The present moment is all there is. To live this truth is to obtain immortality.

I am also convinced that there really is no self to die anyway. Separation is an illusion created by our brains. No self, no free will, no death -- only this moment.

If there is no self, then who is it that experiences this moment?

I am already a part of a religion that makes no empty claims about cosmology. I wouldn't have it any other way.

I'm kind of like that too. I follow some religious principles but don't have any metaphysical beliefs.

What benefits does your religion provide you in this life?

Yeah, I would be. If I followed a belief system only because I was expecting a reward in the afterlife then I would appear to be pretty selfish, in my opinion.

Inner peace, compassion, self improvement, and love.

My opinion, anyway.

Thanks for the post.

Can you explain as what ways your religion provides for inner peace, compassion, self improvement, and love in this life?

Could it be that RF don't attract the kind of people who value an afterlife?

Well, be it my luck that, in a thread asking people how they would go about religion without an afterlife, I get mostly people that don't believe or want an afterlife. I figured this would be a minority of the responders as it seems to be a minority of the general population.

It may be that my thread doesn't attract the kind of people who value an afterlife. I hope they will come and share their views, though.

-Lyn

 

[Smoke]

Could it be that RF don't attract the kind of people who value an afterlife?

I'd value an afterlife if I believed in one. I just tend to be skeptical whenever somebody tries to sell me a ticket to the Big Rock Candy Mountain, especially if they keep talking about the importance of having faith.

 

[joea]

In my own life, I simply live for the sake of life itself and live it spontaneously..the afterlife doesn't come into it. I can still live beautifully, with joy, with compassion, with sadness,with happiness,with love for my family and so forth.
For so long, we have been looking for meanings...but why not just enjoy this existence without any meanings?. People impose too much meaning on existence, but the sad thing though, howsoever false the meaning, it does not matter..the false meaning is good enough for them to live for.
Existence has no meaning, meaning is irrelevant; But religions go on trying to explain the meaning of existence, they create belief, when the old Gods fails, they create new Gods. It is just simply our own projection to what we think is... We should just enjoy this existence and abide in it's emptiness and not stuffing it with unnecessary things.

 

[EverChanging]

If there is no self, then who is it that experiences this moment?

Consciousness is a great mystery, but it seems to me that the self is merely an illusion. There is no self that experiences this moment. There is no localized place of consciousness in the brain. Our actions, our behavior, our thinking, our "willing," all of these things are a product of processes going on in parallel all over the brain with no localized consciousness center. We assume that we perform actions, yet our behavior is a result of environmental and genetic interactions, produced by a brain that is subject to the laws of physics, biochemistry, and electricity, and the myriad other conditions that have brought the atoms of our body into this particular configuration. When we look at this brain, I just don't see where there is anything in it that could properly be conceived of as a true self. Just atoms and space.

 

[justbehappy]

It seems like an afterlife is a key topic in many current religions. There are some exceptions, but it's a pretty strong trend.

Would you adhere to your current religion if there was no promise of an afterlife? For instance, if Allah revealed something like the Qur'an but offered no afterlife to Muslims or anyone, or if Jesus preached for people to love their enemies and neighbors and to avoid sin but that when you die, you're dead, so just make the world a better place while you're here, or if there was no afterlife in Hinduism, or if your pantheon of gods didn't offer you an afterlife, etc.

Undoubtedly these religions would be significantly altered without the afterlife, because for some of them, their entire model and cosmology would be changed, but when answering try to keep it as simple as possible. If most of the aspects of your religion were still around, and you still believed your god(s) to be real, but without any afterlife involved, would you bother to be a part of your current religion or no? Would the benefits of your religion, whatever it is that they happen to be, be worth it in this life?

And if you currently adhere to a religion that does not involve an afterlife or downplays it significantly, then you can contribute to the thread by explaining what benefits you receive from your religion in this life.

Thanks,
-Lyn

Afterlife is truly the biggest reason religion exists. If afterlife isn't it, than it's happiness. We need something to live for - and poof, a solution!

 

[justbehappy]

For the life of me, I don't understand why afterlifes would be so important.

Because if you're like me then you want to live forever

 

[Boethiah]

I've always believed that living things here well on Earth comes first, because things here on Earth are tangible. I do my best to be a good person here in this life and have a good time and then make a good guess about the afterlife. In the Baha'i Faith, we are to help make things here on Earth better to achieve the world unity we believe in. Heaven and Hell can be described as a closeness or remoteness between God.

I have thought of the afterlife of a continuing of a spiritual journey. I believe this world is a spiritual womb (or perhaps just another step in a line. Hard to say) for the next life. If we are generally good people here, we are spiritually fit to continue on. If we are bad people, we are not. I like to think of it like a mountain. If one is good, then their trek up the mountain to become one with God is that much easier. If one is bad, then it is like having weights put into your back pack. The climb becomes harder.

As for other religions, I think the idea of an afterlife plays a huge role. It is the reason why many choose to follow a religion. Many people have the innate need to believe there is something after the curtains close. If Christianity said there was no afterlife, I'd bet that there would be fewer Christians but they would be truer Christians.

 

[EverChanging]

This world as the womb...I like that.

 

[EverChanging]

Well, that's 'cause you're not imagining living forever with a crazy scotch buzz. My understanding is that experiencing heaven is like living in a happy hour without end where the bar munchies are hydrocodone tabs and the smoking section has free whippits and the best Bob Marley reefer one can grow in holy soil.

Well, I guess that would be pretty damn awesome.

 

[Tathagata]

Buddhism actually condemns the pleasures of the afterlife. The afterlife certainly is NOT the goal of Buddhism.

Buddha: "Only through ignorance and delusion do men indulge in the dream that their souls are separate and self-existent entities. Thy heart, O Brahman, is cleaving still to self; thou art anxious about heaven but thou seekest the pleasures of self in heaven, and thus thou canst not see the bliss of truth and the immortality of truth."

-- Identity And Non-Identity (Sacred-Texts.com)

Buddha: "Since, then, O bhikkhus, there is no self, there can not be any afterlife of a self. Therefore abandon all thought of self."

-- Name And Form (Sacred-Texts.com)


.

 

[sukhi]

There are 2 ways to look at it :
1. that there is no death in the spiritual domain ( a topic that needs explnation) and hence there is no afterlife. it is a just a continuous process of soul or YOU changing physical shapes.
2. That there is a afterlife and that after death ones soul based on it's last instant thoughts and desires is rewarded by the same results as desired by the human.

I am with the first one as far as no afterlife that would be charvaka school of thought and hence in that case they dont beleive in any karma or afterlife and belive only in the present.

Prasoon Dixit, Vedic Dharmi