Religion's Future or Lack of it

[1213]

Jesus never said that He was coming back to earth, never. A writer whose identity is unknown said the Son of Man will come.

I believe it is what Jesus said and i think Jesus shows he meant himself with the son of man. But, I understand that other people can choose not to believe.

I believe that those verses are about Baha'u'llah who was one like Jesus, so he was the return of the Son of man.

Why do you think Baha'u'llah was like Jesus, if you don't even believe what the Bible tells about Jesus? How can you know they are similar, if you don't know who or what Jesus was?

 

[Trailblazer]

Why do you think Baha'u'llah was like Jesus, if you don't even believe what the Bible tells about Jesus? How can you know they are similar, if you don't know who or what Jesus was?

I believe that Baha'u'llah was like Jesus in His twofold nature, which was both divine and human.
They were also alike in that they were both Manifestations of God, Messengers of God, and Prophets.

However, Baha'ullah had a wholly different mission from God than Jesus had. For example:

Jesus laid the “foundation” for the future Kingdom of God on earth by revealing God to us and spiritualizing humanity, and without the foundation Jesus laid with His teachings the Kingdom would not be possible. Jesus was also the Herald of the Kingdom, the Harbinger who came to announce the coming of the Kingdom. The primary mission of Baha'u'llah was to reveal to us in His Writings how we humans are to build that kingdom.

Bahá'í Library Online

Baha'i articles, books, translations, and historical materials

bahai-library.com

Bahá'í Library Online

Baha'i articles, books, translations, and historical materials

bahai-library.com

I know about Jesus because of what The Baha'i Writings say about Jesus.

Bahá'í Reference Library - Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, Pages 85-86

Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 16-17

I also believe 'some' of what the New Testament says about Jesus, but not all of it.

 

[1213]

...
I also believe 'some' of what the New Testament says about Jesus, but not all of it.

Sorry, that sounds too arbitrary to me.

 

[Trailblazer]

Sorry, that sounds too arbitrary to me.

So you believe all of it?

It is not arbitrary for me because there is a reason I believe some things and not others and I use logic.
Sorry, I cannot believe things that are contradictory, like the resurrection accounts, or things like people 'going up' and meeting Jesus in the air, or that Jesus brought people back from death or that someday physical death will be no more. However, that does not take away from the spiritual teachings of Jesus and the promises of eternal life in heaven, which are all that really matter.

 

[1213]

So you believe all of it?

I believe the whole Bible is true.

Sorry, I cannot believe things that are contradictory

Ok, I think that is not wrong.

, like the resurrection accounts,

I don't think they are contradictory, if correctly understood.

or things like people 'going up' and meeting Jesus in the air, or that Jesus brought people back from death or that someday physical death will be no more. However, that does not take away from the spiritual teachings of Jesus and the promises of eternal life in heaven, which are all that really matter.

How can you believe eternal life in heaven, but not for example Jesus bringing people back from death?

 

[Trailblazer]

How can you believe eternal life in heaven, but not for example Jesus bringing people back from death?

Do you believe that it is necessary for Jesus to bring people back from physical death in order for them to have eternal life in heaven?
Do you think that people will have physical bodies in heaven?

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever.
43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

The Kingdom of God is in heaven, so that verse above means that our physical bodies cannot exist in heaven, which will last forever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Below is an apt description of what happens when we die (all of us) is below.
Please note that the words spirit and soul have the same meaning since the soul is the human spirit.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life.

https://swedenborg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/swedenborg_foundation_heaven_and_hell.pdf

The death of man is merely his soul passing from one world into another. When the soul (spirit) passes from this world into the spiritual world (heaven) it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements and the man continues to live forever.

What makes us human is our soul, not our physical body, and our soul continues to live forever. All of who we are -- our personality -- will survive the resurrection, except the physical body. The death of man is merely his soul passing from one world into another. When the soul passes from this world into the spiritual world it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements that exist in the spiritual realm of existence.

My Baha'i beliefs are congruent with what it says in the Bible as noted above, in 1 Corinthians 15.

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 193-196

Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body. Jesus is not alive in a physical body because physical bodies cannot exist in heaven.
The spiritual body of Jesus cannot return to this earth for all to see Him because spiritual bodies do not exist on earth.

 

[1213]

...
Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body. Jesus is not alive in a physical body because physical bodies cannot exist in heaven.
The spiritual body of Jesus cannot return to this earth for all to see Him because spiritual bodies do not exist on earth.

I believe the spiritual body can be also physical. For example because of how Jesus moved after death.

When therefore it was evening, on that day, the first day of the week, and when the doors were locked where the disciples were assembled, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood in the midst, and said to them, "Peace be to you."
John 20:19

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe the spiritual body can be also physical.

Not according to the Bible, and you said you believe that everything in the Bible is true.

According to the Bible, there are only two kinds of bodies, and they are different.
There is no such thing as a hybrid body that is BOTH physical AND spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

If Jesus was seen after the resurrection what was seen was a spiritual body.
I know the see my hands and feet verse but don't you think that Jesus could make Himself look physical in order to restore the faith of His disciples, given all the other miracles He performed?

 

[loverofhumanity]

What's the future for religion? It's a big question but it looks like it's on the decline, especially in west.

What are the reasons for the decline?
- Decline of the Patriarchal society
- Acceptance of diverse cultural and societal issues like same sex marriage, gender, abortion, IVF, divorce, abortion, homosexuality and contraception. (Wow)
- Public morality being determined by law and not religion
- Hypocrisies of religion
- Society can see that countries that are less religious actually tend to be less corrupt and have lower murder rates than religious ones
- Individual critical thinking
- Any more?

And how long has religion got? A few hundred years or less?

Here are just a couple of the hundreds of articles on the subject.

Why is religion suddenly declining?

An analysis of religious trends from 1981 to 2007 in 49 countries containing 60% of the world’s population did not find a global resurgence of religion—most high-income countries were becoming less religious—however, it did show that in 33 of the 49 countries studied, people had become more...

blog.oup.com

A surprising explanation for the global decline of religion

Since the year 2000, there has been a global decline of religion. In a recent paper, scientists suggest automation could be the cause.

bigthink.com

Religion needs to address the issues of the age and provide competent solutions otherwise I feel it’s of very little use to humanity.

The relationships between nations, races and religions have been badly damaged and religion is supposed to bring people together but instead it is a major cause of division today. The competition between faiths is very unhealthy and breeds prejudice which inevitably leads to conflict.

I believe the future of religion depends on whether it can create peace or not.

 

[Madsaac]

I believe the future of religion depends on whether it can create peace or not.

Yeah maybe, I think good government has a better chance of bringing peace then religion and the west knows this, hence the decline in the importance of religion.

 

[Madsaac]

Do you believe that it is necessary for Jesus to bring people back from physical death in order for them to have eternal life in heaven?
Do you think that people will have physical bodies in heaven?

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

The Resurrection Body

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

42 It is the same way with the resurrection of the dead. Our earthly bodies are planted in the ground when we die, but they will be raised to live forever.
43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

The Kingdom of God is in heaven, so that verse above means that our physical bodies cannot exist in heaven, which will last forever.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Below is an apt description of what happens when we die (all of us) is below.
Please note that the words spirit and soul have the same meaning since the soul is the human spirit.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life.

https://swedenborg.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/swedenborg_foundation_heaven_and_hell.pdf

The death of man is merely his soul passing from one world into another. When the soul (spirit) passes from this world into the spiritual world (heaven) it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements and the man continues to live forever.

What makes us human is our soul, not our physical body, and our soul continues to live forever. All of who we are -- our personality -- will survive the resurrection, except the physical body. The death of man is merely his soul passing from one world into another. When the soul passes from this world into the spiritual world it takes on a new form comprised of spiritual elements that exist in the spiritual realm of existence.

My Baha'i beliefs are congruent with what it says in the Bible as noted above, in 1 Corinthians 15.

“The answer to the third question is this, that in the other world the human reality doth not assume a physical form, rather doth it take on a heavenly form, made up of elements of that heavenly realm.”

Bahá'í Reference Library - Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, Pages 193-196

Jesus is alive in heaven in a spiritual body. Jesus is not alive in a physical body because physical bodies cannot exist in heaven.
The spiritual body of Jesus cannot return to this earth for all to see Him because spiritual bodies do not exist on earth.

I don't want to sound rude and apologise if it does.

However, all these 'writings' are just so meaningless to so many people, just blah blah blah and I think this does not help with religion becoming more important but the opposite.

Maybe if religion teachings related to people more it would be better, especially to young people.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't want to sound rude and apologise if it does.

However, all these 'writings' are just so meaningless to so many people, just blah blah blah and I think this does not help with religion becoming more important but the opposite.

Maybe if religion teachings related to people more it would be better, especially to young people.

I am not sure which 'writings' you are referring to or why you think they are meaningless to so many people.
Do you think the Bible is meaningful to young people who are not Christians?

 

[Madsaac]

I am not sure which 'writings' you are referring to or why you think they are meaningless to so many people.
Do you think the Bible is meaningful to young people who are not Christians?

Yeah, these sort of things below just seem a little 'out there' especially for younger people. Personally I find the bible to be very abstract, hard to understand

35 But someone may ask, “How will the dead be raised? What kind of bodies will they have?”

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Yeah maybe, I think good government has a better chance of bringing peace then religion and the west knows this, hence the decline in the importance of religion.

I don't know for the furture as for religion in the West, because we could get more non-Abrahamic religions and for some religions in effect become secular and atheistic.

And for goverment, it still vaires with what ideologies are chosen by the people in effect. Good government is not the same for all types of ideologies.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeah, these sort of things below just seem a little 'out there' especially for younger people. Personally I find the bible to be very abstract, hard to understand

I also find the Bible hard to understand, but since I had read the Baha'i Writings before I ever read the Bible, that made the Bible easier to understand.

 

[1213]

Not according to the Bible, and you said you believe that everything in the Bible is true.

According to the Bible, there are only two kinds of bodies, and they are different.
There is no such thing as a hybrid body that is BOTH physical AND spiritual.

1 Corinthians 15
New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
41 The sun has one kind of glory, while the moon and stars each have another kind. And even the stars differ from each other in their glory.

43 Our bodies are buried in brokenness, but they will be raised in glory. They are buried in weakness, but they will be raised in strength.
44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

If Jesus was seen after the resurrection what was seen was a spiritual body.
I know the see my hands and feet verse but don't you think that Jesus could make Himself look physical in order to restore the faith of His disciples, given all the other miracles He performed?

If the spiritual body can be seen, it must also have physical attributes, even if it is not like a natural body.

 

[Trailblazer]

If the spiritual body can be seen, it must also have physical attributes, even if it is not like a natural body.

What makes you think that?
Jesus could have made his spiritual body look physical, but that does not mean it was physical.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Religion needs to address the issues of the age and provide competent solutions otherwise I feel it’s of very little use to humanity.

Religion has and still does create cooperative communities. It is associated with better health, happiness, and longevity, as well as a buffer against anxiety and depression. Not everyone in any religion becomes a better person, but among those who actually seek to become a better person, they find all the tools they need within religion.

The relationships between nations, races and religions have been badly damaged and religion is supposed to bring people together but instead it is a major cause of division today.

Look at all the nationalities in the Catholic Church. You don't think their religion brings them together? There are Jews all over the world, speaking many different languages and having all sorts of cultural differences. You don't think we are brought together by our shared religion? Islam is all over the globe. You don't think they are brought together by their religion? I would propose that there is nothing as good as religion to create bridges between countries and cultures.

The competition between faiths is very unhealthy and breeds prejudice which inevitably leads to conflict.

Inevitably? Hardly. The overwhelming majority of wars in history have been over land and resources and getting slaves. Wars over ideology are extremely rare.

I believe the future of religion depends on whether it can create peace or not.

Well, nothing wrong with creating peace.

 

[Jimmy]

Christianity’s gonna have a golden age

 

[Jimmy]

What makes you think that?
Jesus could have made his spiritual body look physical, but that does not mean it was physical.

How does one make a spiritual body look physical? …by wearing extra makeup?