Tomef
Well-Known Member
It sounds like that to you because that’s what you’re thinking of.This post religious world without barriers sounds exactly like one of the utopian ideologies we supposedly left behind in the 20th Century
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It sounds like that to you because that’s what you’re thinking of.This post religious world without barriers sounds exactly like one of the utopian ideologies we supposedly left behind in the 20th Century
A set of rules for a community, with an enforcing authority.Okay, what is religion to you?
Science caused me to leave religion. I know one anecdote does not make a fact, but I'm sure I am not the only one.
A set of rules for a community, with an enforcing authority.
I am no statistician but looking from a far, the western world seems to be more at ‘peace’ compared to the past.Based on what metrics?
We are more familiar with more diverse cultures, but familiarity is a double edged sword.
It’s possible we are into a cycle of this familiarity breeding increasing hostility
Question - Would you prefer to live outside the west? Australia or Denmark for me.Outside the west religion is as strong as ever.
And I’m not too confident that the west is entering an era of prosperity and enlightened tolerance either.
Declining societies aren’t always pretty, and it is likely much of the west will comparatively decline.
Humans aren’t rational so I wouldn’t hold much faith in reason saving us from ourselves.
No moral relativism, morality isn’t synonymous with meaning. I mean our meanings are our own, formed out of our experiences, influences and so on. My life has meaning for me, the things I do have meaning. That meaning is self created, I mean it’s the end result of the sum of the various things and people that have influenced me. Sure, it’s relative in the sense that someone else would find their particular way of living meaningful for them too. Cognitively the relative experience of meaning is universal. Morality is the same for humans as it is for dogs, i.e. a feature of evolution. Only our relatively higher level of self-consciousness adds more variation.Well, the end result of the bold one is in a sense cognitive, cultural and moral relativism as there is no objective, universal meanning. Is that your point or do you have another?
Sure, and so does openess of thought. New ways of seeing the world bloom like mushrooms in an open society, as they have in brief periods of liberty in Europe and The US. Imagining some stolid interpretation of the past requires repetition by definition doesn’t define ‘human nature’.
The difference between ways of think is defined by ‘does it fit what I already know/can I make it fit that’ and thought characterised by openness and adaptability. Meaning defines itself, or it doesn’t.
No moral relativism, morality isn’t synonymous with meaning. I mean our meanings are our own, formed out of our experiences, influences and so on. My life has meaning for me, the things I do have meaning. That meaning is self created, I mean it’s the end result of the sum of the various things and people that have influenced me. Sure, it’s relative in the sense that someone else would find their particular way of living meaningful for them too. Cognitively the relative experience of meaning is universal. Morality is the same for humans as it is for dogs, i.e. a feature of evolution. Only our relatively higher level of self-consciousness adds more variation.
Based on what metrics?
We are more familiar with more diverse cultures, but familiarity is a double edged sword.
It’s possible we are into a cycle of this familiarity breeding increasing hostility
Outside the west religion is as strong as ever.
And I’m not too confident that the west is entering an era of prosperity and enlightened tolerance either.
Declining societies aren’t always pretty, and it is likely much of the west will comparatively decline.
Humans aren’t rational so I wouldn’t hold much faith in reason saving us from ourselves.
You could define it that way if you want, if you consider the secular authority to have the same omnipresent enforcing ability as an imaginary god. Whether it’s ‘correct' or not is a different matter, this is a general discussion forum, I’m not really interested in a long-winded discussion of all possible permutations.Then a secular constitution is a religion in a sense. Is that correct?
That’s exactly the point, acceptance of the reality that there is no ultimate truth to discover has never been so widespread as in the post post modern world.Yet the “new ways of thought” are blighted by the same problems.
We evolved as irrational, violent, tribal animals.
There is no saving us from ourselves.
The idea we can be saved is just residual Christianity.
All the worst ideas and ideologies in history have developed from people being open and adaptable (until they think they have discovered the truth).
Science caused me to leave religion. I know one anecdote does not make a fact, but I'm sure I am not the only one.
Are you implying that it is wrong or unfortunate that society allowed @Altfish to think for himself and decide religion was not for him?Yeah, and a society which aloowed that.
Are you implying that it is wrong or unfortunate that society allowed @Altfish to think for himself and decide religion was not for him?
What do you mean @mikkel_the_dane ?
When did religion begin? I don't think this question has a definitive answer.And how long has religion got? A few hundred years or less?
I am no statistician but looking from a far, the western world seems to be more at ‘peace’ compared to the past.
Question - Would you prefer to live outside the west? Australia or Denmark for me.
And would you agree the list of reasons as to the decline of religion in the OP are a reflection of the increased tolerance and acceptance we have for one another?
Freedom of and from religion personifiedYeah, and a society which aloowed that.
Freedom of and from religion personified
Sadly, however, it requires at least a small modicum of truly reflective thought (call it "philosophy" if you like) to find meaning and purpose without a meta explanation. That is why religion exists in the first place -- everybody can just accept the convenient story, written long ago, and it doesn't require much effort in the way of philosophy.
The percentage of non religious PPL is actually declining. More fraction of people will be religious by 2050 than today.What's the future for religion? It's a big question but it looks like it's on the decline, especially in west.
What are the reasons for the decline?
- Decline of the Patriarchal society
- Acceptance of diverse cultural and societal issues like same sex marriage, gender, abortion, IVF, divorce, abortion, homosexuality and contraception. (Wow)
- Public morality being determined by law and not religion
- Hypocrisies of religion
- Society can see that countries that are less religious actually tend to be less corrupt and have lower murder rates than religious ones
- Individual critical thinking
- Any more?
And how long has religion got? A few hundred years or less?
Here are just a couple of the hundreds of articles on the subject.
Why is religion suddenly declining?
An analysis of religious trends from 1981 to 2007 in 49 countries containing 60% of the world’s population did not find a global resurgence of religion—most high-income countries were becoming less religious—however, it did show that in 33 of the 49 countries studied, people had become more...blog.oup.com
A surprising explanation for the global decline of religion
Since the year 2000, there has been a global decline of religion. In a recent paper, scientists suggest automation could be the cause.bigthink.com