Religions in Human Evolution

[Sapiens]

The evidence is strong that the most successful religious groupings (Islam, Christianity, Hinduism) as determined by the number of their followers focused on the importance of marriage and having children as well as nurturing them while atheistic religions do not place such emphasis. The more intense this aspect of a religion is, the greater its success in proliferation terms regardless of adverse climatic conditions in terms of environmental impact on human survival. This would suggest that religions can indeed have an evolutionary role in the propagation of the species.

An interesting claim, can you support it? Does it stand up historically?

This is of course different to the standard theory of the selection of human genes by the natural environment (Darwinism) as it is the result of a mentally-inspired drive to procreate. Whether the source of this mental-drive to procreate is gene-formulated or externally woven into the psyche is a matter for debate. The fact that there are atheistic religions and philosophies that focus on other aspects of living (sattvic, versus tamasic or rajasic) indicates that the mental thoughts inspiring humans is differentiated into these three gunas and so produces a more complex picture on how human evolution proceeds. As such it assigns a role for God in generating the guna-consciousness that then generates the differences in human behaviour.

Again, an interesting claim, but nothing more.

 

[Shantanu]

An interesting claim, can you support it? Does it stand up historically?

Again, an interesting claim, but nothing more.

The striking aspect of human evolution is how different religions and philosophies live side by side within societies and globally even with inherent conflicts in their beliefs (eg athesim, homosexuality). There must be a coherent mechanism to generate this diversity. If the diversity was gene-associated separate genes or mechanisms of expressions would have been identified by scientists, say one for Islam and the other for Buddhism for example to take two extremely divergent methods of living. Islamic societies with strong male domination of women who are treated as only means of reproduction must originate in some thought processes that are different to the goals of compassion and care that signifies Buddhism. They cannot have a common genetic basis, for Buddhism serves no survival function in the natural world with its altruism. It is like a regulator is protecting both methods of living. That regulator must be God. Why would He do such a thing?

My theory is that in pre-history all of mankind lived without religions in automatic animalistic lives without any philosophies. At around 20,000 years ago God played games with human evolution by awakening the sattvic element of guna-consciousness energy in many humans across the world for His own reasons. Perhaps He wished man to appreciate Him as the Creator of the universe. Perhaps it was for His own amusement. He stirred the consciousness of humans to bring us to consider questions of the nature of existence. The theory that has long been recognised in Hinduism is that humans are governed by three gunas (characters) of sattvic (piously-good), rajasis (indifferent, routinal, normal) and tamasic (inertial, sensual, even evil). This causes humans to constantly think about a meaning to their lives beyond animalistic living. And because the three gunas act on the mind as a form of consciousness 'energy' they will generate different lifestyles.

It is evident that if a God exists He allows these diverse religions to persist, even though one may legitimately question the morals in some of them. I think He knows that morals are not the means for human survival but He also wishes humans to lead sober and thoughtful lives that gives meaning to others beyond materialistic gains. So the Hindu Trimurti of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva for the three gunas creates a balance in Nature that enables the human species to prosper in a civilised manner that generates knowledge of the universe from sattvic living. That is how I attribute the human scene to God's intentions.

 

[Sapiens]

The striking aspect of human evolution is how different religions and philosophies live side by side within societies and globally even with inherent conflicts in their beliefs (eg athesim, homosexuality). There must be a coherent mechanism to generate this diversity. If the diversity was gene-associated separate genes or mechanisms of expressions would have been identified by scientists, say one for Islam and the other for Buddhism for example to take two extremely divergent methods of living. Islamic societies with strong male domination of women who are treated as only means of reproduction must originate in some thought processes that are different to the goals of compassion and care that signifies Buddhism. They cannot have a common genetic basis, for Buddhism serves no survival function in the natural world with its altruism. It is like a regulator is protecting both methods of living. That regulator must be God. Why would He do such a thing?

My theory is that in pre-history all of mankind lived without religions in automatic animalistic lives without any philosophies. At around 20,000 years ago God played games with human evolution by awakening the sattvic element of guna-consciousness energy in many humans across the world for His own reasons. Perhaps He wished man to appreciate Him as the Creator of the universe. Perhaps it was for His own amusement. He stirred the consciousness of humans to bring us to consider questions of the nature of existence. The theory that has long been recognised in Hinduism is that humans are governed by three gunas (characters) of sattvic (piously-good), rajasis (indifferent, routinal, normal) and tamasic (inertial, sensual, even evil). This causes humans to constantly think about a meaning to their lives beyond animalistic living. And because the three gunas act on the mind as a form of consciousness 'energy' they will generate different lifestyles.

It is evident that if a God exists He allows these diverse religions to persist, even though one may legitimately question the morals in some of them. I think He knows that morals are not the means for human survival but He also wishes humans to lead sober and thoughtful lives that gives meaning to others beyond materialistic gains. So the Hindu Trimurti of Brahma, Vishnu and Shiva for the three gunas creates a balance in Nature that enables the human species to prosper in a civilised manner that generates knowledge of the universe from sattvic living. That is how I attribute the human scene to God's intentions.

Again, an interesting thought, but one based on outlandish and unsupported claims. Without something more than blanket statements like "That regulator must be God" (who is to say there is a "regulator" and why must it be "God"?) I can not take you seriously.

 

[Shantanu]

Again, an interesting thought, but one based on outlandish and unsupported claims. Without something more than blanket statements like "That regulator must be God" (who is to say there is a "regulator" and why must it be "God"?) I can not take you seriously.

Either human evolution can be explained on the basis of natural selection of gene-based behavioural characteristics of people or human communities are a haphazard development: which do you favour?

 

[metis]

To me, I think the only real mystery is why all cultures as far back as we can take them had religion as a mainstay? It would be one thing is only some had religion as one of their basic institutions, but all? Even as far back as the Neanderthals we find some evidence of religion.

We need to remember that early religious concepts spread mostly be word-of-mouth, and we well know what happens after a while with that. On top of that, people tend to see different things even viewing the same stimuli.

 

[Shantanu]

Even as far back as the Neanderthals we find some evidence of religion.

Where did you get the idea that the Neanderthals had religion?

 

[metis]

Where did you get the idea that the Neanderthals had religion?

I'm an anthropologist, now retired, and we've seen some Neanderthal burial sites in central Europe whereas the bodies were laid only in an east-west fashion, some hunting tools were buried with the bodies, blood-red ocher was sprinkled on the bodies (can be detected through pollen analysis), and some had cave-bear skulls facing outward from the body.

There's no rhyme nor reason why this would be done unless there was some sort of religious concept, and that probably was a form of animism.

BTW, and excellent book written by an anthropologist is "Red Man's Religion", but don't let the rather hoaky title throw you as it really is quite excellent.

 

[Shantanu]

I'm an anthropologist, now retired, and we've seen some Neanderthal burial sites in central Europe whereas the bodies were laid only in an east-west fashion, some hunting tools were buried with the bodies, blood-red ocher was sprinkled on the bodies (can be detected through pollen analysis), and some had cave-bear skulls facing outward from the body.

There's no rhyme nor reason why this would be done unless there was some sort of religious concept, and that probably was a form of animism.

BTW, and excellent book written by an anthropologist is "Red Man's Religion", but don't let the rather hoaky title throw you as it really is quite excellent.

That is not evidence of 'religion' which means the worship of a supernatural deity. It could be just how they treated their dead.

 

[metis]

That is not evidence of 'religion' which means the worship of a supernatural deity. It could be just how they treated their dead.

Those who have dealt with this as a specialization strongly doubt that, but "evidence", which is the term that I used, is not synonymous with "fact". Either way, by the time we get to Cro-Magnon (Hss), we do see evidence in some areas with cave paintings, and since the dating of both the Neanderthal (Hsn) burials and C-M paintings aren't too far apart time wise, it's not at all difficult to hypothesize that religion at least was in the process of developing.

BTW, do not assume for one second that Neanderthals were stupid-- as time has gone on and more evidence has come in, they really ain't the brutish, ignorant type that many believed after all.

 

[Shantanu]

Those who have dealt with this as a specialization strongly doubt that, but "evidence", which is the term that I used, is not synonymous with "fact". Either way, by the time we get to Cro-Magnon (Hss), we do see evidence in some areas with cave paintings, and since the dating of both the Neanderthal (Hsn) burials and C-M paintings aren't too far apart time wise, it's not at all difficult to hypothesize that religion at least was in the process of developing.

BTW, do not assume for one second that Neanderthals were stupid-- as time has gone on and more evidence has come in, they really ain't the brutish, ignorant type that many believed after all.

Neanderthals in common with other branches of Homo erectus in Asia had no concept of religion; and there is equally no credible evidence to think that the Cro Magnon Homo sapiens at 40,000 years BP did any form of Nature worship or deity worship. The first signs of any form of 'civilisation' in humans in the form of appreciation of finer aspects of life come to us from cave paintings not much older than 20,000 years BP. Religion proper was even more recent, less than 10,000 years ago probably with the development of the Vedas in India.

 

[metis]

Neanderthals in common with other branches of Homo erectus in Asia had no concept of religion; and there is equally no credible evidence to think that the Cro Magnon Homo sapiens at 40,000 years BP did any form of Nature worship or deity worship. The first signs of any form of 'civilisation' in humans in the form of appreciation of finer aspects of life come to us from cave paintings not much older than 20,000 years BP. Religion proper was even more recent, less than 10,000 years ago probably with the development of the Vedas in India.

You're fabricating stories and ignoring what the evidence is and suggests, so instead of spouting an uniformed opinion, it might be best for you to actually do some research. Even the Wikipedia article on Neanderthal might help you. As for me, I'd rather deal with people who actually know what their limitations are rather than inventing "knowledge".

Goodbye.

 

[Shantanu]

You're fabricating stories and ignoring what the evidence is and suggests, so instead of spouting an uniformed opinion, it might be best for you to actually do some research. Even the Wikipedia article on Neanderthal might help you. As for me, I'd rather deal with people who actually know what their limitations are rather than inventing "knowledge".

Goodbye.

I was actually looking for explicit evidence-based reasonings from you to disprove what I wrote in any way, rather than pointing to Wikipedia.

 

[metis]

I was actually looking for explicit evidence-based reasonings from you to disprove what I wrote in any way, rather than pointing to Wikipedia.

Sorry, but now you'e simply lying. Check what you wrote in post #50. You weren't "looking" for anything but claimed to know the answer in no uncertain terms.

So, between you know-it-all approach and your dishonesty, I have no interest in having any discussion with you on any subject. Have a nice life.

 

[shawn001]

Neanderthals in common with other branches of Homo erectus in Asia had no concept of religion; and there is equally no credible evidence to think that the Cro Magnon Homo sapiens at 40,000 years BP did any form of Nature worship or deity worship. The first signs of any form of 'civilisation' in humans in the form of appreciation of finer aspects of life come to us from cave paintings not much older than 20,000 years BP. Religion proper was even more recent, less than 10,000 years ago probably with the development of the Vedas in India.

Gobekli Tepe: The World’s First Temple?
Predating Stonehenge by 6,000 years, Turkey's stunning Gobekli Tepe upends the conventional view of the rise of civilization

Gobekli Tepe: The World’s First Temple? | History | Smithsonian

 

[shawn001]

Evidence of biological basis for religion in human evolution

Evidence of biological basis for religion in human evolution -- ScienceDaily

Evolution of Religion
Evolution of Religion

Shantanu, you did not comment on this I posted.

 

[Shantanu]

Shantanu, you did not comment on this I posted.

I cannot tell from reading the article what the authors are providing as ‘evidence’ of biological basis for religion in human evolution as I cannot see the details of any beliefs that they have found correlations with particular brain interactions that were detected, nor on which part of the brain was involved in the process. Or are they just making a general observation that some brain activity is detected in those who belong to certain established religions. For me religion is any mental arrangement of ideas that derives a basis for living not from the realities of what the senses can detect of the outside world but of internal thought processes that are derived either from the genes or from another source. This takes place in the mind.

I personally subscribe to the view that religious ideas are not genetical in origin but derive from the consciousness that permeate the material world. This consciousness is inbedded into atoms and is therefore part of the evolution of the atoms into life forms. The Consciousness is powered and directed by God through His force called Paramatma. We as human beings are therefore connected to the universe and God through this mechanism that God has created. We are inseparable from it, just like all other organisms. We are a combination of gene-based body that has functions of maintaining itself and procreating and the consciousness element that is connected to the Supreme Creator God. There is therefore no distinction between us as humans, a biological species, and the universe. All that we do and how we do them are are monitored by God with whom we are separate but one at the same time. It includes the religions that we develop and adopt. How we develop these religions is therefore the fascinating question. How the connection of our body to God through consciousness has been made is through the human Mind. The Theory of Mind is therefore very complex and I believe is a magical creation through the impenetrable power of Gods Maya. Maya is the means God does things with that is beyond the capacity of humans to investigate using scientific tools, in this case, neuroscience.

My view is that the human mind can be compartmentalised conceptually as follows: the mind draws information from the ‘memory banks’ and from consciousness energy of matter to deal with stimuli received from the senses to get us to act in particular ways. When we have acted that information is registered again in the memory banks as updating information on our beliefs. The consciousness element evolves from the invisible forces that make the electrons and atoms behave in particular ways through chemical reactions to biological ones and finally in the evolution of the nerves and ultimately the human mind.

Significantly, the consciousness 'energy' of the universe is differentiated into gunas (properties/characteristics) of which there is a triad, three real deities that exist in consciousness, where Brahma (sattivic), Vishnu (rajasic) and Shiva (tamasic) sit in three corners of a triangle. In between these three major triad deities there is scope for millions of gods each one possessing a different blend of sattvic, rajasic and tamasic attributes. Each person is subjected to the guna consciousness energy stream as inputs into his or her mind. An individual however is attracted to only the god that is suited to his or her mental disposition so that he/she creates or adopts the myths and beliefs associated with that particular blend of attributes. A person is therefore creating his own god through an interaction with guna consciousness in a two-way process. It give each person his or her own rudder to guide his or her life. Even atheists have a god but of course they do not accept that a god is in fact guiding them. Over history particular gods get into prominence through interactions in society where their reputations are made. That is how religions always get formulated and propagated in human societies.

This represents the totality of the biological facts of our existence and the biological basis of religions.

 

[shawn001]

I cannot tell from reading the article what the authors are providing as ‘evidence’ of biological basis for religion in human evolution as I cannot see the details of any beliefs that they have found correlations with particular brain interactions that were detected, nor on which part of the brain was involved in the process. Or are they just making a general observation that some brain activity is detected in those who belong to certain established religions. For me religion is any mental arrangement of ideas that derives a basis for living not from the realities of what the senses can detect of the outside world but of internal thought processes that are derived either from the genes or from another source. This takes place in the mind.

I personally subscribe to the view that religious ideas are not genetical in origin but derive from the consciousness that permeate the material world. This consciousness is inbedded into atoms and is therefore part of the evolution of the atoms into life forms. The Consciousness is powered and directed by God through His force called Paramatma. We as human beings are therefore connected to the universe and God through this mechanism that God has created. We are inseparable from it, just like all other organisms. We are a combination of gene-based body that has functions of maintaining itself and procreating and the consciousness element that is connected to the Supreme Creator God. There is therefore no distinction between us as humans, a biological species, and the universe. All that we do and how we do them are are monitored by God with whom we are separate but one at the same time. It includes the religions that we develop and adopt. How we develop these religions is therefore the fascinating question. How the connection of our body to God through consciousness has been made is through the human Mind. The Theory of Mind is therefore very complex and I believe is a magical creation through the impenetrable power of Gods Maya. Maya is the means God does things with that is beyond the capacity of humans to investigate using scientific tools, in this case, neuroscience.

My view is that the human mind can be compartmentalised conceptually as follows: the mind draws information from the ‘memory banks’ and from consciousness energy of matter to deal with stimuli received from the senses to get us to act in particular ways. When we have acted that information is registered again in the memory banks as updating information on our beliefs. The consciousness element evolves from the invisible forces that make the electrons and atoms behave in particular ways through chemical reactions to biological ones and finally in the evolution of the nerves and ultimately the human mind.

Significantly, the consciousness 'energy' of the universe is differentiated into gunas (properties/characteristics) of which there is a triad, three real deities that exist in consciousness, where Brahma (sattivic), Vishnu (rajasic) and Shiva (tamasic) sit in three corners of a triangle. In between these three major triad deities there is scope for millions of gods each one possessing a different blend of sattvic, rajasic and tamasic attributes. Each person is subjected to the guna consciousness energy stream as inputs into his or her mind. An individual however is attracted to only the god that is suited to his or her mental disposition so that he/she creates or adopts the myths and beliefs associated with that particular blend of attributes. A person is therefore creating his own god through an interaction with guna consciousness in a two-way process. It give each person his or her own rudder to guide his or her life. Even atheists have a god but of course they do not accept that a god is in fact guiding them. Over history particular gods get into prominence through interactions in society where their reputations are made. That is how religions always get formulated and propagated in human societies.

This represents the totality of the biological facts of our existence and the biological basis of religions.

Never mind. But, by the way you need a nervous system for consciousness. But your also mixing your own beliefs with science and your working from your own conclusion first then fitting in what you think, but that is not how it works at all.

"God does things with that is beyond the capacity of humans to investigate using scientific tools, in this case, neuroscience."

I don't think you now where they are at with new neuroscience research at all.

 

[Unification]

Never mind. But, by the way you need a nervous system for consciousness. But your also mixing your own beliefs with science and your working from your own conclusion first then fitting in what you think, but that is not how it works at all.

"God does things with that is beyond the capacity of humans to investigate using scientific tools, in this case, neuroscience."

I don't think you now where they are at with new neuroscience research at all.

I'm not so sure, friend. Even the scriptures talk about the brain and the mind and consciousness, and this energy. All throughout them.

 

[shawn001]

I'm not so sure, friend. Even the scriptures talk about the brain and the mind and consciousness, and this energy. All throughout them.

What would the Scriptures have to do with modern neuroscience or evolution of the nervous system. Remember the brain is part of the Central nervous system.

Although, "Even the scriptures talk about the brain and the mind and consciousness"

of course they do we are humans.

The Scriptures have the earth made before the sun, moon and stars and we know that didn't happen.

Do you believe rocks are conscious?

 

[shawn001]

By the way energy created matter and we are made from matter.

It may also be worth reading this, although a little older now then current research.

"
The Electric Brain

• How does a three-pound mass of wet gray tissue (the brain) succeed in representing the external world so beautifully? In this interview with noted neuroscientist Rodolfo Llinás of the New York University School of Medicine, find out how the rhythm of electrical oscillations in the brain gives rise to consciousness, and how failures in this rhythm can lead to a variety of brain disorders.

NOVA | The Electric Brain