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religiosity and/or strength of religious belief is associated with less intelligence

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Why would he lie for Jesus though? That dont make much sense. If your that intense on following Jesus in the first place, then lying for him wont make any sense because following Jesus would ultimately mean telling the truth.....for him, because Jesus is all about.....integrity and truth.
It makes no sense. I agree that it is an act of insanity on his part. The problem is with his education he has to know that he is wrong. He even sometimes lets on that he knows that there are transitional fossils and other evidence that only supports the theory of evolution. Here is an article that goes over one time that he did so:

Honest creationist Kurt Wise on transitional fossils

I thought that you said that you accepted evolution. That would mean you disagree with Wise.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
If kurt wise is intellectually dishonest, isnt that the same as lying to himself?

Also, why do you think bias is the same as intellectually dishonest?

Intellectual dishonesty is what it is,
not just another worc for something else.

Quite revealing questions you ask.

Do you understand the role of objectivity
in research? Not that I expect an answer.

(Check for psychological projection on item
1 of your irrational atheists post)
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
Why would he lie for Jesus though? That dont make much sense. If your that intense on following Jesus in the first place, then lying for him wont make any sense because following Jesus would ultimately mean telling the truth.....for him, because Jesus is all about.....integrity and truth.

Christians following "Jesus" in integrity
and truth..

Maybe, but when will we ever see it from
creationists here?
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
It makes no sense. I agree that it is an act of insanity on his part. The problem is with his education he has to know that he is wrong. He even sometimes lets on that he knows that there are transitional fossils and other evidence that only supports the theory of evolution. Here is an article that goes over one time that he did so:

Honest creationist Kurt Wise on transitional fossils

I thought that you said that you accepted evolution. That would mean you disagree with Wise.

Insanity? That is a bit too much remote -view psychiatry.
It does look a lot like cog dis of course...

His story about the heavy bible, though...

Nurse! Get your pad this boy 's insane!
 
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Intellectual dishonesty is what it is,
not just another worc for something else.

Quite revealing questions you ask.

Do you understand the role of objectivity
in research? Not that I expect an answer.

(Check for psychological projection on item
1 of your irrational atheists post)

Define objectivity for me.

Define also bias for me?
 
It makes no sense. I agree that it is an act of insanity on his part. The problem is with his education he has to know that he is wrong. He even sometimes lets on that he knows that there are transitional fossils and other evidence that only supports the theory of evolution. Here is an article that goes over one time that he did so:

Honest creationist Kurt Wise on transitional fossils

I thought that you said that you accepted evolution. That would mean you disagree with Wise.

I believe in evolution as in adaptation, small change over time. Mutation. And natural selection or survival of the fittest as its also called.

Thats what i believe.
 
Christians following "Jesus" in integrity
and truth..

Maybe, but when will we ever see it from
creationists here?

If creationists believe the bible, then would they also not believe the bible where it says "do not lie" and to be "honest".?
 

Audie

Veteran Member


Did you even bother to look the words up?
I dont use those terms in some special
way.

I am going to indulge your laziness this time,
to keep it moving.

Bias is simply about prejudging in favour of or
against something.
Objectivity is about making the utmost effort
to eliminate the influence of bias, emotion
etc from the study and conclusions.

Think of a courtroom.
As the falsely accused defendant, we suppose you
want a dispassionate and thorough examination
of evidence, confident that facts speak for
themselves- you were, after all, in Paris when
the bank was robbed in East Timor.

Objectivity is a highest value in science for
a number of reasons that should be obvious.
Perfection cannot be achieved but it is essential
to try.

Science is a culture of doubt- a researcher must be
condtantly asking what if, and thinking of flaws
or clunter arguments and possibilities.
Hoping for a certian result is dishonest.

Religion is the opposite, a culture of faith.
Believe, change not, no matter what.
See "Job".

K Wise is being very "christian" in this.
All the data in the universe is not enough
to change what he thinks the bible seems
to say.

Back to court. The judge tells the defense
atty- "present such evidence as you will, but
God seems to be telling me he is guilty,
and all the evidence in the universe will
never change my mind- nor will the
jury change, as they are hand picked and
all agree he is guilty,"

Is the judge lying? Is he intellectually
honest?
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
If creationists believe the bible, then would they also not believe the bible where it says "do not lie" and to be "honest".?

Are you a creationist?

You seem to think in black and white,
there are many shades of grey between night and day.

I think creos believe that they are on god's side, god is
on theirs.

I wonder why objectivoty and intellectual honesty are
seemingly such foreign concepts to you.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
If creationists believe the bible, then would they also not believe the bible where it says "do not lie" and to be "honest".?

What does "believe the bible" even mean? Xians say they
"believe" it, but they believe it says countless different things.

Bible says Jesus is a door. Ok.
Wait, it says he is a lamb. Baa baa?
Whatever is one to believe?

You are the xian. You tell me why honesty is
so little valued.
 
Did you even bother to look the words up?

I did look it up. I even said i did in a prior post. But i could not find it. But, i did watch a youtube video of him saying why hes a creationist. But, i could not find what you said he said.

I dont use those terms in some special way.

I am going to indulge your laziness this time,
to keep it moving.

Im not lazy. This is a discussion board, it reasonably calls for defining of terms from those who hold oposite views, otherwise we may find ourselves arguing in circles.

Bias is simply about prejudging in favour of or
against something.

Agreed. Hopefully as we move foward i dont have to ask you to define prejudice. But, well see.

Objectivity is about making the utmost effort
to eliminate the influence of bias, emotion
etc from the study and conclusions.

Agreed as well. Now, since im UNDECIDED on whether the earth is young or old, whether Noahs flood is global or local, and i dont care one way or the other which one it is, this puts me in a VERY particular state of PURE objectivity here. Does it not?

Think of a courtroom.
As the falsely accused defendant, we suppose you
want a dispassionate and thorough examination
of evidence, confident that facts speak for
themselves- you were, after all, in Paris when
the bank was robbed in East Timor.

Objectivity is a highest value in science for
a number of reasons that should be obvious.
Perfection cannot be achieved but it is essential
to try.

Science is a culture of doubt- a researcher must be
condtantly asking what if, and thinking of flaws
or clunter arguments and possibilities.
Hoping for a certian result is dishonest.

I agree with everything you said here UNTIL you said "hoping for a certain result is dishonest".

Hoping something is true is not dishonest. Fudging data, and delebarate lying, thats dishonest.

Religion is the opposite, a culture of faith.
Believe, change not, no matter what.
See "Job".

This is a misunderstanding of faith and religion. Real faith has rationality to it. Change not is perseverence. Perseverence although a good quality, is not faith.

K Wise is being very "christian" in this.
All the data in the universe is not enough
to change what he thinks the bible seems
to say.

Back to court. The judge tells the defense
atty- "present such evidence as you will, but
God seems to be telling me he is guilty,
and all the evidence in the universe will
never change my mind- nor will the
jury change, as they are hand picked and
all agree he is guilty,"

Is the judge lying? Is he intellectually
honest?

Tell me where k wise says no evidence will turn him from the bible. Where is that at? The longer you persist in not showing this, the more it makes what you say appear suspect.
 
What does "believe the bible" even mean? Xians say they
"believe" it, but they believe it says countless different things.

Bible says Jesus is a door. Ok.
Wait, it says he is a lamb. Baa baa?
Whatever is one to believe?

You are the xian. You tell me why honesty is
so little valued.

Honesty is not devalued. Thats a misunderstanding.

Jesus being a door or a lamb, thats all parable. Even Jesus admits that.

What your doing, and so many agnostics, atheists, skeptics do this, they oversimplify complicated things and then use that as there argument. Its a very weak case.
 

ecco

Veteran Member
What your doing, and so many agnostics, atheists, skeptics do this, they oversimplify complicated things and then use that as there argument.
That's really funny.

Many theists, believe Genesis. The knowledge of all of creation reduced to one simple to read book.

Most agnostics, atheists, skeptics, understand nature is far more complex than that. It takes thousands of books on geology, biology, physics, etc to describe the true complexities of nature.

For you to believe the opposite is nonsensical.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I did look it up. I even said i did in a prior post. But i could not find it. But, i did watch a youtube video of him saying why hes a creationist. But, i could not find what you said he said.



Im not lazy. This is a discussion board, it reasonably calls for defining of terms from those who hold oposite views, otherwise we may find ourselves arguing in circles.



Agreed. Hopefully as we move foward i dont have to ask you to define prejudice. But, well see.



Agreed as well. Now, since im UNDECIDED on whether the earth is young or old, whether Noahs flood is global or local, and i dont care one way or the other which one it is, this puts me in a VERY particular state of PURE objectivity here. Does it not?



I agree with everything you said here UNTIL you said "hoping for a certain result is dishonest".

Hoping something is true is not dishonest. Fudging data, and delebarate lying, thats dishonest.



This is a misunderstanding of faith and religion. Real faith has rationality to it. Change not is perseverence. Perseverence although a good quality, is not faith.



Tell me where k wise says no evidence will turn him from the bible. Where is that at? The longer you persist in not showing this, the more it makes what you say appear suspect.

I did give you the link, I SAID "last paragraph":
and I identified the three obvious key search words
K WISE EVIDENCE.

Your negligence does not make me "suspect".

Unlike creos, I have no need to dissemble or
use fake quotes.

You btw have yet to show evidence that you understand
how his stance is the refined essence of intellectual
dishonesty.

As well informed as any creo on earth,and the best
suppott he has is what hd thinks the bible seems to
say.

Real faith is like a true scotsman, or is it "faith" like that
a big mac will be like you expect?

Rrligious faith inovlves zero evidence and, to use a word correctly
where you did not, is "irrational". Perservrrence is an aspect of
faith, and like, you kmow, not losing faith at any sign of adversity.
Job, remember?

Hope is not in itself dishonest, but it is to
be avoided in resesrch. Hope is bias in this context,
and is a key component of intellectual
dishonesty. Try to learn instead of quibbling
over semantics.

As for your pure objevtivity, not bad, maybe-
but mostly shows that you know next to nothing
of the subject.

Comparable to being undecided, purely objective
about how there just may still be wooley mammoths
living in Alaska, or, dinosaurs in the Congo.

Gotta be seriously ignorant and unrealistic
for that. Kinda weird / funny to see you ttying to
make it a virtue, "pure objectivity".
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
Honesty is not devalued. Thats a misunderstanding.

Jesus being a door or a lamb, thats all parable. Even Jesus admits that.

What your doing, and so many agnostics, atheists, skeptics do this, they oversimplify complicated things and then use that as there argument. Its a very weak case.


Garbage . Total garbage and a lot of
ad hom tossed in to make it worse

YOU simplified it to "believe the bible"
and I showed that it is not so simple.

If you agree, why do you bother to argue?

YOU said something about why would
Xians lie fer jesus.

I asked you tell me why.

Instead of attempting any sort of
answer you make up some totally
unrelated nonsense about me.
 
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