Religious accommodation...how far does it go?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Here's an interesting little conundrum, happening right now in the city of Toronto.

City employees, in some situations, for the protection of the vulnerable who depend on city-delivered services, are required to wear N95 masks. Medical science has established that this can reduce the spread of viruses, and where there are vulnerable (elderly or immune-compromised) people, this is seen as important.

However, it is also well established that N95 masks lose a great deal -- or almost all -- of their protective capacity when worn on a face with facial hair, and especially with a full beard. Thus, Toronto's rules state that the N95 masks must be worn over clean-shaven faces in such circumstances.

Thus, many Sikhs in such roles in Toronto have been taken out of the roles that they were in, and either put on paid leave or assigned elsewhere, because their religious beliefs forbid them to remove their beards.

The World Sikh Organization (WSO) of Canada is lobbying for them to be returned to their jobs, regardless of their shaven status.

There is a summer wave of the virus coming, driven by a new variant, and this is well known. Unprotected, vulnerable people will die. This is also a certainty.

How do you resolve it?

 

[SomeRandom]

Perhaps such folk can be put back into their roles, just with much more limited contact with the public?
Particularly those with auto immune issues.
Like they just drive the car or leave their delivery on the doorstop or safe location for pick up later?
Contactless pick up has become a rather popular avenue for shopping as of late. It’s even used for one’s groceries these days. So I don’t see it being that big of a big change to services. Right?

 

[SalixIncendium]

When was this mask mandate put in place?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

When was this mask mandate put in place?

At the beginning of the pandemic.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Well, I'm too late. Under pressure from religions, Toronto has backed down, and everybody will be allowed to return to their positions.

Your religious facial hair is far more important than the mere life of a beloved grandmother in a nursing home, after all. I mean, how long's she got, anyway?

Somebody keep reminding me about this "pro-life" thing people keep talking about.

 

[SalixIncendium]

At the beginning of the pandemic.

Then they need to find employment elsewhere in a lower risk industry.

That's what I would do.

 

[SalixIncendium]

Your religious facial hair is far more important than the mere life of a beloved grandmother in a nursing home, after all.

Expecting them to shave their beards is arrogant and inconsiderate...

...just as their demand to retain their positions and put other in danger.​

 

[MikeF]

Here's an interesting little conundrum, happening right now in the city of Toronto.

City employees, in some situations, for the protection of the vulnerable who depend on city-delivered services, are required to wear N95 masks. Medical science has established that this can reduce the spread of viruses, and where there are vulnerable (elderly or immune-compromised) people, this is seen as important.

However, it is also well established that N95 masks lose a great deal -- or almost all -- of their protective capacity when worn on a face with facial hair, and especially with a full beard. Thus, Toronto's rules state that the N95 masks must be worn over clean-shaven faces in such circumstances.

Thus, many Sikhs in such roles in Toronto have been taken out of the roles that they were in, and either put on paid leave or assigned elsewhere, because their religious beliefs forbid them to remove their beards.

The World Sikh Organization (WSO) of Canada is lobbying for them to be returned to their jobs, regardless of their shaven status.

There is a summer wave of the virus coming, driven by a new variant, and this is well known. Unprotected, vulnerable people will die. This is also a certainty.

How do you resolve it?

They can wear the headgear that goes with the laboratory bio suit. That should cover all the hair.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Expecting them to shave their beards is arrogant and inconsiderate...

...just as their demand to retain their positions and put other in danger.​

Here's an interesting question: why would anybody think God hates cutting hair and beards, but is perfectly okay with fingernails and toenails? It's all freaking keratin, after all.

 

[Subduction Zone]

They can wear the headgear that goes with the laboratory bio suit. That should cover all the hair.

That is probably not a feasible solution either. The workers sound like CNA's and Nurses. Those at the lower end of the medical hierarchy. They are already overworked and underpaid. A suit that covers the body has to be put on taken off and disposed of every time that someone enters and then leaves a room.. It is a big added expense and time in the care of residents. A functioning mask need not be changed all of the time since one's face is not in contact (hopefully) with a resident that needs care. If and when they need to be changed it is a matter of seconds and only a few pennies.

And they probably reversed themselves because the workers needed simply do not exist unless they rely on the Sikh community. CNA jobs are often "immigrant jobs". They are done by people that badly need the money and will work hard doing something that the average American, or in this case Canadian does not want to do.

Unfortunately this may lead to a slight spike in the death rates of the elderly. I am hoping for an updated vaccine. Just like with the flu we will need new vaccines on a regular basis for some time. The cycle of how the Corona virus works is different from that of the flu, so there is still hope for eliminating the virus totally.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Well, I'm too late. Under pressure from religions, Toronto has backed down, and everybody will be allowed to return to their positions.

Your religious facial hair is far more important than the mere life of a beloved grandmother in a nursing home, after all. I mean, how long's she got, anyway?

Somebody keep reminding me about this "pro-life" thing people keep talking about.

You should realize how passionate people are on religion. I still maintain its your responsibility to protect yourself, not another's as harsh as that may sound. I see no resolution other than one own responsibility for themselves.

It comes back to asking if you are your brother's keeper? A bit more complicated as it turns out I think.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Here's an interesting question: why would anybody think God hates cutting hair and beards, but is perfectly okay with fingernails and toenails? It's all freaking keratin, after all.

Religions foster irrational beliefs. Sadly when an idea is realized to be irrational and sometimes harmful they use the excuse "But God told us to do this".

 

[Subduction Zone]

You should realize how passionate people are on religion. I still maintain its you responsibility to protect yourself, not another's as harsh as that may sound. I see no resolution other than one own responsibility for themselves.

This is in regards to people in nursing homes. Many of them are not able to protect themselves. That is why they are there in the first place. In this case it is society's duty to protect them.

 

[Twilight Hue]

This is in regards to people in nursing homes. Many of them are not able to protect themselves. That is why they are there in the first place. In this case it is society's duty to protect them.

I can agree on that front.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Then they need to find employment elsewhere in a lower risk industry.

That basically. We shouldn't have to cater to people who can't upfront perform the job due to such things. These people should know upfront the position will conflict with their beliefs, and they should understand they are not entitled to make the world change and cater to them. ESPECIALLY when it comes to a deadly virus.
It's garbage like this that gives freedom of religion a very bad name.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

You should realize how passionate people are on religion. I still maintain its your responsibility to protect yourself, not another's as harsh as that may sound. I see no resolution other than one own responsibility for themselves.

It comes back to asking if you are your brother's keeper? A bit more complicated as it turns out I think.

That carelessness has did nothing more than give America a very high--disproportionately high--amount of the global covid cases and deaths.
So, I guess if it's up to you to protect yourself then stay off the road. I'm downing a fifth of Jager and getting behind the wheel. It's all on you to protect yourself from my recklessness.

 

[Twilight Hue]

That carelessness has did nothing more than give America a very high--disproportionately high--amount of the global covid cases and deaths.
So, I guess if it's up to you to protect yourself then stay off the road. I'm downing a fifth of Jager and getting behind the wheel. It's all on you to protect yourself from my recklessness.

I'll keep an eye out for ya!

 

[Subduction Zone]

That basically. We shouldn't have to cater to people who can't upfront perform the job due to such things. These people should know upfront the position will conflict with their beliefs, and they should understand they are not entitled to make the world change and cater to them. ESPECIALLY when it comes to a deadly virus.
It's garbage like this that gives freedom of religion a very bad name.

They were probably in the field before the outbreak. CNA's are workers that are absolutely needed by nursing homes and they are jobs that immigrants are willing to take. Unfortunately I am sure that there are simply not enough other trained personnel to take their place. And unfortunately there is often no reasoning with the religious when it comes to religious rules. This was a religious rule that did not have that much of an impact in the past but now it does. Frankly there does not appear to be an easy solution to this one.

 

[MikeF]

That is probably not a feasible solution either. The workers sound like CNA's and Nurses. Those at the lower end of the medical hierarchy. They are already overworked and underpaid. A suit that covers the body has to be put on taken off and disposed of every time that someone enters and then leaves a room.. It is a big added expense and time in the care of residents. A functioning mask need not be changed all of the time since one's face is not in contact (hopefully) with a resident that needs care. If and when they need to be changed it is a matter of seconds and only a few pennies.

And they probably reversed themselves because the workers needed simply do not exist unless they rely on the Sikh community. CNA jobs are often "immigrant jobs". They are done by people that badly need the money and will work hard doing something that the average American, or in this case Canadian does not want to do.

Unfortunately this may lead to a slight spike in the death rates of the elderly. I am hoping for an updated vaccine. Just like with the flu we will need new vaccines on a regular basis for some time. The cycle of how the Corona virus works is different from that of the flu, so there is still hope for eliminating the virus totally.

I agree that the whole suit is impractical. I was simply suggesting using the head covering only, not the whole suit. Essentially it would be a face shield with N95 venting and enough material to hold the beard with a drawstring at the neck.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I agree that the whole suit is impractical. I was simply suggesting using the head covering only, not the whole suit. Essentially it would be a face shield with N95 venting and enough material to hold the beard with a drawstring at the neck.

Hm, perhaps that would work.