Religious accommodation...how far does it go?

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Here's an interesting little conundrum, happening right now in the city of Toronto.

City employees, in some situations, for the protection of the vulnerable who depend on city-delivered services, are required to wear N95 masks. Medical science has established that this can reduce the spread of viruses, and where there are vulnerable (elderly or immune-compromised) people, this is seen as important.

However, it is also well established that N95 masks lose a great deal -- or almost all -- of their protective capacity when worn on a face with facial hair, and especially with a full beard. Thus, Toronto's rules state that the N95 masks must be worn over clean-shaven faces in such circumstances.

Thus, many Sikhs in such roles in Toronto have been taken out of the roles that they were in, and either put on paid leave or assigned elsewhere, because their religious beliefs forbid them to remove their beards.

The World Sikh Organization (WSO) of Canada is lobbying for them to be returned to their jobs, regardless of their shaven status.

There is a summer wave of the virus coming, driven by a new variant, and this is well known. Unprotected, vulnerable people will die. This is also a certainty.

How do you resolve it?

I don’t feel sorry for the religious who put religious beliefs ahead of public safety. I’m sure it sucks but better they find a better fitting job than risk someone’s life.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Are you truly suggesting that people should be allowed to endanger each other needlessly out of religious conviction?

Isn't that kind of criminal? Or rather, fully criminal?

Of course not. I pointed out there are alternatives out there that don't go against religious convictions.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

N95 have valves that spew spit balls into the air, so must not be used for covid. Many states strictly prohibit N95. They protect the user, only, and could be used to block saw dust, etc. Covid masks are designed to prevent the infected from spewing airborne spitballs.

Health of an individual "might" take precedence over religious dogma. Example, some religions prohibit medical intervention to save the life of their sons (his time to be taken to heaven by God), so law enforcement intervenes to save an innocent life needlessly lost.

The pandemic isn't about an individual, it is about all those that covid could spread to. Tens of thousands could be infected, and hundreds killed by religious dogma. Example, many Christian sects insisted that God would protect them, so held public meetings, and many (including pastors) caught covid.

Sensible covid laws should force the bearded (even those with religious protection) from being near the public.

"Do unto others". . . God agrees.

"Thou shalt not kill". . . God agrees.

The Vatican cut off travel (the pope agrees). They lack faith in God to protect them.

The covid pandemic is God's punishment for invading Iraq (Revelation 15).

Electing a Satanic demon (the beast) to the presidency of the United States was a package deal that involved the attack of Iraq, attack of allied Taliban, attempted attack of North Korea (phony orange alerts to scare us into war), and attempted attack of Niger by "trying" to get Ambassador Joseph Wilson to lie us into a war with Niger (W. Bush and Cheney exposed his wife, Valery Plame as a CIA agent as punishment for not lying us into yet another war). Electing a Satanic demon to the presidency of the United States also failed to address the homeless issue, global warming (and allowed greed to overcome common sense about fracking and offshore drilling), and fires (especially California), and drought, and debt, etc. Satan brings a package deal when put in charge.

I work in purchasing for an assisted living facility. We have at least six different types of N95s and only one or two have valves.

 

[Twilight Hue]

L

I don’t feel sorry for the religious who put religious beliefs ahead of public safety. I’m sure it sucks but better they find a better fitting job than risk someone’s life.

No. Just offer alternatives and work arounds.

Otherwise it's a case of religious discrimination.

 

[LuisDantas]

Of course not. I pointed out there are alternatives out there that don't go against religious convictions.

Sorry, I fear that I failed to notice them. Would you mind emphasizing or repeating them?

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Here's an interesting little conundrum, happening right now in the city of Toronto.

City employees, in some situations, for the protection of the vulnerable who depend on city-delivered services, are required to wear N95 masks. Medical science has established that this can reduce the spread of viruses, and where there are vulnerable (elderly or immune-compromised) people, this is seen as important.

However, it is also well established that N95 masks lose a great deal -- or almost all -- of their protective capacity when worn on a face with facial hair, and especially with a full beard. Thus, Toronto's rules state that the N95 masks must be worn over clean-shaven faces in such circumstances.

Thus, many Sikhs in such roles in Toronto have been taken out of the roles that they were in, and either put on paid leave or assigned elsewhere, because their religious beliefs forbid them to remove their beards.

The World Sikh Organization (WSO) of Canada is lobbying for them to be returned to their jobs, regardless of their shaven status.

There is a summer wave of the virus coming, driven by a new variant, and this is well known. Unprotected, vulnerable people will die. This is also a certainty.

How do you resolve it?

I am not sure exactly how Canada works but it seems that if the masks are a requirement of the job then the employees need to decide to shave or find another job. You should be allowed to practice your religion but that does not mean employers need to accommodate your every desire.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Long term care facilities are under US and state guidelines (must sit up 15 minutes per day to avoid bedsores. . . and pretty much no other guidelines).

Do you have citations? I’ve been in nursing homes most of my working life and I have never experienced this. Residents who can’t move, or people needing total assistance, need to be repositioned every two hours. As understaffed as we are, states are lucky to get that.
Repositioning Patients to Prevent Pressure Injuries

The repositioning of hospitalized patients with reduced mobility: a prospective study

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

How do you resolve it?

I very much wanted to find sufficient warrant to back the WSO. I found none.

Rather than ridiculing their customs, I prefer to focus on the following ...

The Sikh Coalition remarks:

All initiated Sikhs are required to maintain uncut/untrimmed hair. But, as in every religion, there are people at different levels of observance and commitment to their faith. Everyone is on their own personal journey. Some Sikhs may cut their hair, but that does not exclude them from the Sikh community.​

And this document asserts:

The word “Sikh” means “Seeker of Truth.” As a faith rooted in love, Sikhism stands for the equality of women and men and denounces any discrimination pertaining to gender, race, caste, creed, or color. There are three core tenets of the Sikh religion: meditation upon and devotion to the Creator, truthful living, and service to humanity. Sikhs are meant to uphold the values of honesty, compassion, generosity, humility, integrity, service, and spirituality on a daily basis. Sikh prayer ends with a wish for the welfare for all mankind. A Sikh place of worship welcomes people of all faiths and backgrounds. Many Sikhs wear five articles of faith to express their commitment to these values, including long hair that men and some women wrap in a turban. [emphasis added - JS]​

I would urge the WSO to animate the tenets mentioned above and encourage their members to remove their beards as an act of devotion.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

L

No. Just offer alternatives and work arounds.

Otherwise it's a case of religious discrimination.

It’s religious discrimination if I tell someone they can’t stone their kids but I will do it anyway.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Here's an interesting little conundrum, happening right now in the city of Toronto.

City employees, in some situations, for the protection of the vulnerable who depend on city-delivered services, are required to wear N95 masks. Medical science has established that this can reduce the spread of viruses, and where there are vulnerable (elderly or immune-compromised) people, this is seen as important.

However, it is also well established that N95 masks lose a great deal -- or almost all -- of their protective capacity when worn on a face with facial hair, and especially with a full beard. Thus, Toronto's rules state that the N95 masks must be worn over clean-shaven faces in such circumstances.

Thus, many Sikhs in such roles in Toronto have been taken out of the roles that they were in, and either put on paid leave or assigned elsewhere, because their religious beliefs forbid them to remove their beards.

The World Sikh Organization (WSO) of Canada is lobbying for them to be returned to their jobs, regardless of their shaven status.

There is a summer wave of the virus coming, driven by a new variant, and this is well known. Unprotected, vulnerable people will die. This is also a certainty.

How do you resolve it?

I don't understand why any deity cares about how many hairs you have on your body.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It’s religious discrimination if I tell someone they can’t stone their kids but I will do it anyway.

You dont read do you?

I mentioned work arounds.

 

[Twilight Hue]

Sorry, I fear that I failed to notice them. Would you mind emphasizing or repeating them?

Religious accommodation...how far does it go?

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

You dont read do you?

I mentioned work arounds.

And if they aren’t available, they don’t keep the job. They need to decide whether God or a paycheck is more important.

 

[Twilight Hue]

And if they aren’t available, they don’t keep the job. They need to decide whether God or a paycheck is more important.

Your probably living in a third world country if that isn't available.

 

[LuisDantas]

Religious accommodation...how far does it go?

You are asking questions in that post, apparently counting on the answers being self-evident.

I can answer the last question: it isn't "funny". Instead, it is worrisome that people insist on protecting beliefs at the expense of other people.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Your probably living in a third world country if that isn't available.

I am. It’s called the US. Most facilities were screwed when Covid showed up. Even now we’re experiencing backlogs and shortages.

 

[Twilight Hue]

You are asking questions in that post, apparently counting on the answers being self-evident.

I can answer the last question: it isn't "funny". Instead, it is worrisome that people insist on protecting beliefs at the expense of other people.

Like my last answer, there are workarounds.

Firing should be a last resort, especially if that person does well and is dedicated.

Goes to show the mentality on what a good employee actually means to an employer.

The guilt/shame trip response goes both ways.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

I don't understand why any deity cares about how many hairs you have on your body.

I sincerely doubt that any deity (real or imagined) actually does. Rather, this (and so many other religious observances) are the product of human reasoning, which is notoriously flawed.

 

[England my lionheart]

Here's an interesting little conundrum, happening right now in the city of Toronto.

City employees, in some situations, for the protection of the vulnerable who depend on city-delivered services, are required to wear N95 masks. Medical science has established that this can reduce the spread of viruses, and where there are vulnerable (elderly or immune-compromised) people, this is seen as important.

However, it is also well established that N95 masks lose a great deal -- or almost all -- of their protective capacity when worn on a face with facial hair, and especially with a full beard. Thus, Toronto's rules state that the N95 masks must be worn over clean-shaven faces in such circumstances.

Thus, many Sikhs in such roles in Toronto have been taken out of the roles that they were in, and either put on paid leave or assigned elsewhere, because their religious beliefs forbid them to remove their beards.

The World Sikh Organization (WSO) of Canada is lobbying for them to be returned to their jobs, regardless of their shaven status.

There is a summer wave of the virus coming, driven by a new variant, and this is well known. Unprotected, vulnerable people will die. This is also a certainty.

How do you resolve it?

The needs of the many outweighs the needs of the few maybe.

 

[LuisDantas]

Like my last answer, there are workarounds.

You miss the point. There are workarounds against assault and robbery as well. It does not follow that they should not be avoided.

A believer should not expect others to accomodate for their beliefs out of generosity alone. There is a duty to accept the consequences, restrictions and responsibility that come with those beliefs, whichever they may be.