Religious accommodation...how far does it go?

[Sheldon]

Perhaps it would then also be nice, if they could prove the masks really work and are useful.

"The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts."

"Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus...health experts say the evidence is clear that masks can help prevent the spread of COVID-19 and that the more people wearing masks, the better."

"Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,3-6 along with any microorganisms associated with these particles.7, 8 Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger),9 but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns3, 5 which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.13 Multi-layer cloth masks can both block 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3, 14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5, 6, 15, 16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3, 9, 14, 17 In one study, conducted prior to widespread circulation of the Delta variant, masks worked equally well for blocking aerosolized particles containing both “wild-type” virus and the Alpha variant (a more infectious variant).17"

"Community mask wearing substantially reduces transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in 2 ways. First, masks prevent infected persons from exposing others to SARS-CoV-2 by blocking exhalation of virus-containing droplets into the air (termed source control). This aspect of mask wearing is especially important because it is estimated that at least 50% or more of transmissions are from persons who never develop symptoms or those who are in the presymptomatic phase of COVID-19 illness.1 In recent laboratory experiments, multilayer cloth masks were more effective than single-layer masks, blocking as much as 50% to 70% of exhaled small droplets and particles.2,3 In some cases, cloth masks have performed similar to surgical or procedure masks for source control. Second, masks protect uninfected wearers. Masks form a barrier to large respiratory droplets that could land on exposed mucous membranes of the eye, nose, and mouth. Masks can also partially filter out small droplets and particles from inhaled air. Multiple layers of fabric and fabrics with higher thread counts improve filtration. However, the observed effectiveness of cloth masks to protect the wearer is lower than their effectiveness for source control,3 and the filtration capacity of cloth masks can be highly dependent on design, fit, and materials used. Standards for cloth masks are needed to help consumers select marketed products."

 

[SkepticThinker]

If it is truly their home, then they should decide who they allow to be in their home and in what conditions.

Yes, I agree. So workers coming into their home to take care of them should take proper precautions to ensure the patients' safety.

Perhaps it would then also be nice, if they could prove the masks really work and are useful.

You want nursing home patients to prove something we already know about masks? Why?

However, in this case, because I don't think they own really the "home", I think it would be better if those who fear use better own personal protection, instead of forcing others to use systems that probably don't even work really.

Um, people in nursing homes pay large sums of money to live there. It is their home.

Seriously? Masks help prevent the spread of germs and disease. Hence the reasons doctor, surgeons and nurses wear them. Not to mention all the studies demonstrating their effectiveness.

 

[Subduction Zone]

"The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts."

"Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus...health experts say the evidence is clear that masks can help prevent the spread of COVID-19 and that the more people wearing masks, the better."

"Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,3-6 along with any microorganisms associated with these particles.7, 8 Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger),9 but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns3, 5 which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.13 Multi-layer cloth masks can both block 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3, 14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5, 6, 15, 16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3, 9, 14, 17 In one study, conducted prior to widespread circulation of the Delta variant, masks worked equally well for blocking aerosolized particles containing both “wild-type” virus and the Alpha variant (a more infectious variant).17"

"Community mask wearing substantially reduces transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in 2 ways. First, masks prevent infected persons from exposing others to SARS-CoV-2 by blocking exhalation of virus-containing droplets into the air (termed source control). This aspect of mask wearing is especially important because it is estimated that at least 50% or more of transmissions are from persons who never develop symptoms or those who are in the presymptomatic phase of COVID-19 illness.1 In recent laboratory experiments, multilayer cloth masks were more effective than single-layer masks, blocking as much as 50% to 70% of exhaled small droplets and particles.2,3 In some cases, cloth masks have performed similar to surgical or procedure masks for source control. Second, masks protect uninfected wearers. Masks form a barrier to large respiratory droplets that could land on exposed mucous membranes of the eye, nose, and mouth. Masks can also partially filter out small droplets and particles from inhaled air. Multiple layers of fabric and fabrics with higher thread counts improve filtration. However, the observed effectiveness of cloth masks to protect the wearer is lower than their effectiveness for source control,3 and the filtration capacity of cloth masks can be highly dependent on design, fit, and materials used. Standards for cloth masks are needed to help consumers select marketed products."

Yes, I agree. So workers coming into their home to take care of them should take proper precautions to ensure the patients' safety.


You want nursing home patients to prove something we already know about masks? Why?

Um, people in nursing homes pay large sums of money to live there. It is their home.

Seriously? Masks help prevent the spread of germs and disease. Hence the reasons doctor, surgeons and nurses wear them. Not to mention all the studies demonstrating their effectiveness.

I go a bit crazy that people still do not know how masks work all of this time. Perhaps after the tenth time making the same mistake they should be hogtied and "I do not understand what a Black and White fallacy is tattooed on their foreheads. It might not fix the problem but it would give everyone that talked with that person some much needed relief.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I go a bit crazy that people still do not know how masks work all of this time. Perhaps after the tenth time making the same mistake they should be hogtied and "I do not understand what a Black and White fallacy is tattooed on their foreheads. It might not fix the problem but it would give everyone that talked with that person some much needed relief.

I know ... I just ... I can't even.

 

[1213]

... Masks help prevent the spread of germs and disease. Hence the reasons doctor, surgeons and nurses wear them. Not to mention all the studies demonstrating their effectiveness.

Doctors commonly use them so that they don't accidentally for example sneeze towards patient, especially when in surgery. But viruses can spread anyway in normal breathing, that is why it would be better, if doctor doesn't do his work when he is sick.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Doctors commonly use them so that they don't accidentally for example sneeze towards patient, especially when in surgery. But viruses can spread anyway in normal breathing, that is why it would be better, if doctor doesn't do his work when he is sick.

Oh, and why wouldn't a doctor want his sneeze to get all over his patient? Could it be because he doesn't want to share the germs that spew out of his mouth and nose when he sneezes perhaps?
Hmmmm ...

 

[Sheldon]

I go a bit crazy that people still do not know how masks work all of this time. Perhaps after the tenth time making the same mistake they should be hogtied and "I do not understand what a Black and White fallacy is tattooed on their foreheads. It might not fix the problem but it would give everyone that talked with that person some much needed relief.

I know, I do get the impression some people are inexplicably hostile to any kind of scientific knowledge. They could fact check something like this in minutes online.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Doctors commonly use them so that they don't accidentally for example sneeze towards patient, especially when in surgery. But viruses can spread anyway in normal breathing, that is why it would be better, if doctor doesn't do his work when he is sick.

Covid spreads more easily than many viruses because one can be ill and not know it. For up to a week before the body goes HEY! Something is wrong here. During that week a person that feels perfectly fine can spread the virus. Do you know what helps limit the spread, it does not stop it one hundred percent, but it can slow down the spread, perhaps fast enough so that it dies out? Masks can do that. But only if everyone wears them correctly. The science deniers out there, and there were far too many, were largely responsible for the continued spread of Covid. Masks work because the virus leaves the body in water droplets. Filter out the water droplets and you filter out the virus.

 

[Sheldon]

"The preponderance of evidence indicates that mask wearing reduces transmissibility per contact by reducing transmission of infected respiratory particles in both laboratory and clinical contexts."

"Still Confused About Masks? Here’s the Science Behind How Face Masks Prevent Coronavirus...health experts say the evidence is clear that masks can help prevent the spread of COVID-19 and that the more people wearing masks, the better."

"Multi-layer cloth masks block release of exhaled respiratory particles into the environment,3-6 along with any microorganisms associated with these particles.7, 8 Cloth masks not only effectively block most large droplets (i.e., 20-30 microns and larger),9 but they can also block the exhalation of fine droplets and particles (also often referred to as aerosols) smaller than 10 microns3, 5 which increase in number with the volume of speech10-12 and specific types of phonation.13 Multi-layer cloth masks can both block 50-70% of these fine droplets and particles3, 14 and limit the forward spread of those that are not captured.5, 6, 15, 16 Upwards of 80% blockage has been achieved in human experiments,4 with cloth masks in some studies performing on par with surgical masks as barriers for source control.3, 9, 14, 17 In one study, conducted prior to widespread circulation of the Delta variant, masks worked equally well for blocking aerosolized particles containing both “wild-type” virus and the Alpha variant (a more infectious variant).17"

"Community mask wearing substantially reduces transmission of severe acute respiratory syndrome coronavirus 2 (SARS-CoV-2) in 2 ways. First, masks prevent infected persons from exposing others to SARS-CoV-2 by blocking exhalation of virus-containing droplets into the air (termed source control). This aspect of mask wearing is especially important because it is estimated that at least 50% or more of transmissions are from persons who never develop symptoms or those who are in the presymptomatic phase of COVID-19 illness.1 In recent laboratory experiments, multilayer cloth masks were more effective than single-layer masks, blocking as much as 50% to 70% of exhaled small droplets and particles.2,3 In some cases, cloth masks have performed similar to surgical or procedure masks for source control. Second, masks protect uninfected wearers. Masks form a barrier to large respiratory droplets that could land on exposed mucous membranes of the eye, nose, and mouth. Masks can also partially filter out small droplets and particles from inhaled air. Multiple layers of fabric and fabrics with higher thread counts improve filtration. However, the observed effectiveness of cloth masks to protect the wearer is lower than their effectiveness for source control,3 and the filtration capacity of cloth masks can be highly dependent on design, fit, and materials used. Standards for cloth masks are needed to help consumers select marketed products."

Doctors commonly use them so that they don't accidentally for example sneeze towards patient, especially when in surgery. But viruses can spread anyway in normal breathing, that is why it would be better, if doctor doesn't do his work when he is sick.

1. So having asked for evidence, and been given it you ignore it completely, I shan't even feign surprise.
2. You don't need to sneeze to pass on germs, just breathing will do, read the citations.
3. Covid like many viruses is passed on in the minute water droplets that are in our breath, breath on any cold glass surface you'll see the water vapour condense.
4. A properly made and fitted mask will help reduced the spread of Covid by filtering out this water vapour. This is especially important in enclosed spaces, where the the amount of this vapour will build up. Covid can live on hard surfaces for days at a time, touching any such contaminated surface, then rubbing your face or eyes will likely infect you, which is why washing your hands regularly is also important.

 

[Subduction Zone]

1. So having asked for evidence, and been given it you ignore it completely, I shan't even feign surprise.
2. You don't need to sneeze to pass on germs, just breathing will do, read the citations.
3. Covid like many viruses is passed on in the minute water droplets that are in our breath, breath on any cold glass surface you'll see the water vapour condense.
4. A properly made and fitted mask will help reduced the spread of Covid by filtering out this water vapour. This is especially important in enclosed spaces, where the the amount of this vapour will build up. Covid can live on hard surfaces for days at a time, touching any such contaminated surface, then rubbing your face or eyes will likely infect you, which is why washing your hands regularly is also important.

Okay, you may have made an error here. Water vapor is a gas. Masks will not filter out a gas. Water vapor will condense (go through a phase change) on a cool surface. Our breath does have water vapor in it. But that is not how we spread Covid viruses. We also exhale water droplets. That is very small drops of water still in liquid form The viruses will be inside the water droplets and those are filtered out by masks.

 

[1213]

..
2. You don't need to sneeze to pass on germs, just breathing will do, read the citations....

Yes, but previously the masks were used for to prevent larger droplets, not breathing.

..3. Covid like many viruses is passed on in the minute water droplets that are in our breath, breath on any cold glass surface you'll see the water vapour condense.

Viruses like also water vapor goes easily through normal masks. You can test and see this by using mask in winter conditions.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Yes, but previously the masks were used for to prevent larger droplets, not breathing.



Viruses like also water vapor goes easily through normal masks. You can test and see this by using mask in winter conditions.

Water vapor, a gas, easily goes through a mask. Water droplets, water in liquid form and spherical in shape, do not pass through masks. Viruses tend to leave the body in water droplets. Viruses cannot evaporate like liquid water can.

 

[pearl]

That is probably not a feasible solution either. The workers sound like CNA's and Nurses. Those at the lower end of the medical hierarchy. They are already overworked and underpaid. A suit that covers the body has to be put on taken off and disposed of every time that someone enters and then leaves a room.

All that would be required is the face shield. For covering the body with disposable gowns, nothing new here, simply universal precautions practiced for years.

 

[Subduction Zone]

All that would be required is the face shield. For covering the body with disposable gowns, nothing new here, simply universal precautions practiced for years.

FAce shields help, but they do not stop nearly as many droplets as a mask does. Small droplets will follow the flow of the air and would not even hit the shield.

 

[pearl]

FAce shields help, but they do not stop nearly as many droplets as a mask does. Small droplets will follow the flow of the air and would not even hit the shield.

Face shields in addition to masks, not in place of.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Face shields in addition to masks, not in place of.

Thank you for the clarification. And that could work. I am still not sure. The problem with a beard is that it creates an imperfect seal. I still have doubts about a shield in this case, but it might be enough to make up for the loss of the improperly fitting mask.

 

[SkepticThinker]

All that would be required is the face shield. For covering the body with disposable gowns, nothing new here, simply universal precautions practiced for years.

My sister is a nurse. She has been wearing an N95 mask AND a face shield (along with disposable gowns) at work through the entire pandemic

 

[pearl]

My sister is a nurse. She has been wearing an N95 mask AND a face shield (along with disposable gowns) at work through the entire pandemic

I bought our N95 masks in Mar 2020, long before they were suggested for everyone to wear them.

 

[SkepticThinker]

I bought our N95 masks in Mar 2020, long before they were suggested for everyone to wear them.

Good thinking!

 

[Sheldon]

Yes, but previously the masks were used for to prevent larger droplets, not breathing.

They're expelled in breathing. Again read the citations I offered when you requested evidence, as you still have not.

Viruses like also water vapor goes easily through normal masks. You can test and see this by using mask in winter conditions.

What is a "normal mask"? You seem to be setting up a straw man, but proper masks, worn properly, will help prevent the spread of Covid, AS THOSE LINKS I POSTED, when you asked for evidence, amply demonstrated.