Religious none? What do you call this?

[ChristineM]

People who eat canned goods.

Very true.

A few years ago when Gerber baby food launched in Africa they couldn't understand why their jars of baby products were not selling until someone pointed out that many Africans are illiterate and go by the picture on the label to identify the contents.

 

[LuisDantas]

@endlessvoid2018 , from the opening post and your third post in this thread I get the sense that you may have largely solved your doubts intellectually, but may be a bit bothered emotionally yet.

If I may be so bold, you sound like you truly don't believe in god, but there is a sort of longing remaining. Perhaps not so much for god itself, but for some sort of expectation that was supported by that belief.

I don't particularly expect that to be a matter of deciding how you feel about god-beliefs. That much you may well have decided already.

Instead, I would think that some calm, deep, honest consideration of your emotional and spiritual landscape and longings might be in order.

If you do not have yet direct, personal experience with Zazen, Shamata and/or Vipassana I would advise you to consider it.

If you feel so inclined, it might be a good idea to give form to your personal understandings of what religion and spirituality are and how you relate to both.

 

[libre]

My OCD probably has something to do with it. Lol.

Also, I like having something to work with. It allows me to learn more about it.

I have OCD too, as well as several other forum members here.
Thought I'd drop the below link, just in case it's something you may find helpful.

What is OCD & Scrupulosity | International OCD Foundation

Scrupulosity is a subtype of obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) involving religious or moral obsessions. Scrupulous individuals are overly concerned that something they thought or did might be a sin or other violation of religious or moral doctrine. They may worry about what their thoughts or...

iocdf.org

 

[rocala]

@endlessvoid2018 , from the opening post and your third post in this thread I get the sense that you may have largely solved your doubts intellectually, but may be a bit bothered emotionally yet.

I have personally found this to be a real problem. I got to grips with religion in 2011 and decided that Buddhism was the answer. At first this was great, a real relief in fact. Slowly problems crept in, I was never sure that there is "no soul" for one. I experienced real distress over this but slowly realised that much of this was due to sadness at the risk of losing my Buddhist label.

I have matured since then, and I still use Buddhism (along with Modern Druidry) as a framework for my spiritual beliefs and research. But I have learned that there is nothing there to cling to nor should there be.

 

[endlessvoid2018]

I have OCD too, as well as several other forum members here.
Thought I'd drop the below link, just in case it's something you may find helpful.

What is OCD & Scrupulosity | International OCD Foundation

Scrupulosity is a subtype of obsessive compulsive disorder (OCD) involving religious or moral obsessions. Scrupulous individuals are overly concerned that something they thought or did might be a sin or other violation of religious or moral doctrine. They may worry about what their thoughts or...

iocdf.org

thank you

@endlessvoid2018 , from the opening post and your third post in this thread I get the sense that you may have largely solved your doubts intellectually, but may be a bit bothered emotionally yet.

If I may be so bold, you sound like you truly don't believe in god, but there is a sort of longing remaining. Perhaps not so much for god itself, but for some sort of expectation that was supported by that belief.

I don't particularly expect that to be a matter of deciding how you feel about god-beliefs. That much you may well have decided already.

Instead, I would think that some calm, deep, honest consideration of your emotional and spiritual landscape and longings might be in order.

Hello! Yes, this is correct. I don't believe in god at all. From my personal experience, I haven't found there to really be any compelling evidence to me that suggests there is any kind of god, at least in the capacity that Christianity or most religions speak of. That, along with the contradictions and immoral scenarios of the Bible to me personally is basically what made me come to the personal conclusion that this god may exist and I disagree with this and cannot go along with worshipping such a deity, or that it's entirely false, made up by men, and said god does not exist. I tend to think the latter.

Yeah, I have a hard time sort of belonging anywhere. The place that gives me the most comfort honestly is the aspect of Humanism, because a lot of it I believe in firmly. I have tried to fill a lot of the gaps with different, positive vibes dealing with Humanism. However, since me and my wife are the only ones that I know that are sort of swaying towards those beliefs, I feel like it's a bit lonely. Where my emotional and spiritual landscape is at, I'm not entirely sure. I think I am still finding that out. The most spiritual I think I really feel is the concept of the pureness of nature, the possibility of all living things being connected in someway, the cosmos, and the awe and reverence of all of it. Other then that, I'm not really sure.

 

[Quintessence]

Beyond what others have already mentioned this bit here stood out to me:

I'm kind of tired of putting myself in a box, as I feel no matter what I do, it makes me doubt and makes me more dogmatic.

Why do you think this happened or happens?

I ask because in my own journey, once I figured out who I was and who I was, I have never had any problems identifying with a specific religious demographic or word-label-thing. While I'd consider it quite normal to resist pigeonholing oneself if one doesn't know who oneself is, once you do... not recognizing yourself for who and what you are is a bit weird, I guess? Whether or not knowing yourself for who you are results in "dogmatism" depends entirely on who you are and dogmatism is not a bad thing in any case.

 

[Banach-Tarski Paradox]

My OCD probably has something to do with it. Lol.

Also, I like having something to work with. It allows me to learn more about it.

Have you heard about the godlike properties of the Rado graph? It’s infinite, occurs by random chance alone, and you can prove that there’s only one of them.

This random graph fact will blow your mind | Rado graph and its godlike properties​

Kenny Rogers - The Gambler​

 

[endlessvoid2018]

Beyond what others have already mentioned this bit here stood out to me:



Why do you think this happened or happens?

I ask because in my own journey, once I figured out who I was and who I was, I have never had any problems identifying with a specific religious demographic or word-label-thing. While I'd consider it quite normal to resist pigeonholing oneself if one doesn't know who oneself is, once you do... not recognizing yourself for who and what you are is a bit weird, I guess? Whether or not knowing yourself for who you are results in "dogmatism" depends entirely on who you are and dogmatism is not a bad thing in any case.

I don't know honestly. I think calling myself an "atheist," is something I have a hard time with because I don't feel like it describes my belief, or rather disbelief positions. And although I know the atheist term is basically a question to whether you believe in a god, gods or not, I feel like I have moved past this. I do, unfortunately, somewhat enjoy putting myself into a little box, as it helps me identify and justify things to myself. However, obviously, that is not always a good thing.

Have you heard about the godlike properties of the Rado graph? It’s infinite, occurs by random chance alone, and you can prove that there’s only one of them.

This random graph fact will blow your mind | Rado graph and its godlike properties​

Kenny Rogers - The Gambler​

No, I have not heard of that. Thanks! I'll check it out.

I read something recently by Bart Ehrman, and he kind of summarizes I think perfectly where I'm at.

"When it comes to faith, I am an atheist. I don’t believe in the traditional Judeo-Christian God (or in Zeus, Aphrodite, Hermes, Apollo, etc) But as to whether there is some greater spiritual power/intelligence in the universe, I’m agnostic. I don’t know if any such being exists. And in my opinion, either does anyone else. That means that I’m not sure what to call myself. I suppose I lean toward “agnostic” rather than “atheist” simply because as a scholar and professional thinker I am, at the end of the day, more interested in “knowledge” than “faith.” Moreover, the term does seem to me to convey a greater sense of humility in the face of an incredibly awesome universe, about which I know so little."

I think this sums up how I'm feeling. If that technically makes me an atheist, I guess so be it. It's a "label," I've decided to shed though. And yes, I know I'm not a scholar lol

 

[Twilight Hue]

So after 8 months of giving up my belief in Christianity and coming to a whole slew of different conclusions, I feel like I am at a standstill with what to believe. I don't know what to even tell someone that I am at this point. I claimed Deist first, and then agnostic, then finally agnostic atheist. However, after 5 months or so of claiming to be an atheist, I'm a bit tired, and almost disillusioned. So... where do I go from here? I still don't believe in god, the bible or religion. At least the gods of man-made religions. I don't believe in heaven, or hell but I believe in the possibility of an afterlife in some capacity, that the soul may be a real thing. I'm sure this may contradict my god belief. I'm not saying I believe in an afterlife one way or another, I'm just simply saying I don't know.

To whether there is any kind of greater power to the universe, an all powerful creator, or anything of that sort, I would say I am completely agnostic to. I don't really like the atheist title, even if I am one. I had a conversation with someone actually recently who told me the same thing. I actually felt the most at peace when I considered myself "Agnostic," as I treated the situation of religion and existence of god that I don't have knowledge that they exist, so by that notion, I didn't sway one way or another whether I believed or not, and went about my life treating it as they didn't exist, assuming that no divine spectacle was going to happen to persuade me otherwise.

I'm also a believer in Humanism, so I associate with that quite a bit. I think at this point, I may just be under the "none," category without a title. I'm kind of tired of putting myself in a box, as I feel no matter what I do, it makes me doubt and makes me more dogmatic. I'm also very interested in the different concepts of Pantheism/Pandeism, etc. Any thoughts?

Maybe stop believing and just go with what you know.

 

[endlessvoid2018]

I sort of already established that I don't believe.

 

[Brickjectivity]

So after 8 months of giving up my belief in Christianity and coming to a whole slew of different conclusions...

To whether there is any kind of greater power to the universe, an all powerful creator, or anything of that sort, I would say I am completely agnostic to....

I'm also a believer in Humanism....I'm also very interested in the different concepts of Pantheism/Pandeism, etc. Any thoughts?

One major thing is to refine your understanding of the nature of human beings. That is a structure which you can attach other knowledge to. Towards this end I suggest reading history, biographies and psychology. You sound like a reader, so that should suit you fairly well. Biographies are great and one of the most neglected things. They are very spiritual things.

Of course you should also continue to focus on living in a way that makes you pleased with yourself and with who you are. Don't only read. Improve.

 

[Spice]

I'm an Omnist. I do believe in a God, just not the God of any particular religion. I believe in a little bit of everything I've explored thus far, but not all of any one.

To me, I think you might relate to being a Seeker. Generally: "A seeker is one who is continously trying to find the logical truth in the world instead of accepting what is told or written in a book."

But there's also a Spiritual Seeker: "Those who follow a path of self-discovery. Being a seeker might be a lifelong journey or one that occurs as a result of a life-changing event."

Since your self-discovery that you're not a Christian, and you're not really an Atheist, perhaps just roll with being a Seeker if you'll be more comfortable with a "home."

 

[idea]

So after 8 months of giving up my belief in Christianity and coming to a whole slew of different conclusions, I feel like I am at a standstill with what to believe. I don't know what to even tell someone that I am at this point. I claimed Deist first, and then agnostic, then finally agnostic atheist. However, after 5 months or so of claiming to be an atheist, I'm a bit tired, and almost disillusioned. So... where do I go from here? I still don't believe in god, the bible or religion. At least the gods of man-made religions. I don't believe in heaven, or hell but I believe in the possibility of an afterlife in some capacity, that the soul may be a real thing. I'm sure this may contradict my god belief. I'm not saying I believe in an afterlife one way or another, I'm just simply saying I don't know.

To whether there is any kind of greater power to the universe, an all powerful creator, or anything of that sort, I would say I am completely agnostic to. I don't really like the atheist title, even if I am one. I had a conversation with someone actually recently who told me the same thing. I actually felt the most at peace when I considered myself "Agnostic," as I treated the situation of religion and existence of god that I don't have knowledge that they exist, so by that notion, I didn't sway one way or another whether I believed or not, and went about my life treating it as they didn't exist, assuming that no divine spectacle was going to happen to persuade me otherwise.

I'm also a believer in Humanism, so I associate with that quite a bit. I think at this point, I may just be under the "none," category without a title. I'm kind of tired of putting myself in a box, as I feel no matter what I do, it makes me doubt and makes me more dogmatic. I'm also very interested in the different concepts of Pantheism/Pandeism, etc. Any thoughts?

I recently started a similar thread, and am currently using the label "fellow traveler" if anyone asks what I am.

Fellow - not isolationist, open to fellowship, appreciative of company, not leader, not follower, in another life I could have been you and visa versa.

Fellow - "I honor the place within you where the entire Universe resides; I honor the place within you of love, of light, of truth, of peace; I honor the place within you, where, when you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, there is only one of us."

Traveler - not citizen, an explorer, a nomad.

MAYA ANGELOU: You only are free when you realize you belong no place — you belong every place — no place at all. The price is high. The reward is great.

Blessings to you fellow traveler

 

[Quintessence]

I don't know honestly. I think calling myself an "atheist," is something I have a hard time with because I don't feel like it describes my belief, or rather disbelief positions. And although I know the atheist term is basically a question to whether you believe in a god, gods or not, I feel like I have moved past this. I do, unfortunately, somewhat enjoy putting myself into a little box, as it helps me identify and justify things to myself. However, obviously, that is not always a good thing.

The question of gods - depending somewhat on how narrowly that word is defined - isn't necessarily an important one when it comes to religious practice. In many ways, what a particular religious practice deems important is part of what establishes its nature. If gods - however narrowly or broadly you understand them - isn't important, why not follow that? Similarly, if questions about afterlives don't feel relevant to you, your religious path doesn't have to focus on that either (mine certainly doesn't).

In a way, how we respond to and build up a religious tradition is similar to how we respond to and build up our educational interests as kids. One day we'll be studying biology and get really excited and interested in butterflies, but totally not be interested in learning about anatomy. Both of those things are part of the discipline but as an individual you can decide to focus more on insects and butterflies while letting others focus on anatomy. Not every bit of every box is gonna appeal to you and that's pretty normal. But both the person studying butterflies and the person studying anatomy could be a biologist. Not everyone in a box is doing the same stuff and interested in the same things is what I'm saying I guess?

 

[metis]

I'm also very interested in the different concepts of Pantheism/Pandeism, etc. Any thoughts?

I think you might find this interesting: Baruch Spinoza - Wikipedia

 

[endlessvoid2018]

I think you might find this interesting: Baruch Spinoza - Wikipedia

Thank you. yes I remember reading about his concepts of god awhile back.

 

[Sand Dancer]

So after 8 months of giving up my belief in Christianity and coming to a whole slew of different conclusions, I feel like I am at a standstill with what to believe. I don't know what to even tell someone that I am at this point. I claimed Deist first, and then agnostic, then finally agnostic atheist. However, after 5 months or so of claiming to be an atheist, I'm a bit tired, and almost disillusioned. So... where do I go from here? I still don't believe in god, the bible or religion. At least the gods of man-made religions. I don't believe in heaven, or hell but I believe in the possibility of an afterlife in some capacity, that the soul may be a real thing. I'm sure this may contradict my god belief. I'm not saying I believe in an afterlife one way or another, I'm just simply saying I don't know.

To whether there is any kind of greater power to the universe, an all powerful creator, or anything of that sort, I would say I am completely agnostic to. I don't really like the atheist title, even if I am one. I had a conversation with someone actually recently who told me the same thing. I actually felt the most at peace when I considered myself "Agnostic," as I treated the situation of religion and existence of god that I don't have knowledge that they exist, so by that notion, I didn't sway one way or another whether I believed or not, and went about my life treating it as they didn't exist, assuming that no divine spectacle was going to happen to persuade me otherwise.

I'm also a believer in Humanism, so I associate with that quite a bit. I think at this point, I may just be under the "none," category without a title. I'm kind of tired of putting myself in a box, as I feel no matter what I do, it makes me doubt and makes me more dogmatic. I'm also very interested in the different concepts of Pantheism/Pandeism, etc. Any thoughts?

I am in the same boat as you.

 

[endlessvoid2018]

What conclusions have you come to, if any?

 

[endlessvoid2018]

Read this today online:

"There is an arrogance to being absolutely certain about something that can never be proven. A religious person might believe absolutely in their unprovable god and would call it Faith.

But an atheist, by definition, has no Faith. So being certain of the nonexistence of all gods, essentially an unprovable position requiring faith, is not possible for many atheists.

They may choose therefore to call themselves agnostic to acknowledge that lack of faith. They may still be pretty sure that no gods exist, and even more certain that no gods will ever affect their own existence. But they would also be unwilling to martyr themselves for this certainty and so ‘agnostic’ may seem more accurate."

Pretty good.

 

[Spice]

Read this today online:

"There is an arrogance to being absolutely certain about something that can never be proven. A religious person might believe absolutely in their unprovable god and would call it Faith.

But an atheist, by definition, has no Faith. So being certain of the nonexistence of all gods, essentially an unprovable position requiring faith, is not possible for many atheists.

They may choose therefore to call themselves agnostic to acknowledge that lack of faith. They may still be pretty sure that no gods exist, and even more certain that no gods will ever affect their own existence. But they would also be unwilling to martyr themselves for this certainty and so ‘agnostic’ may seem more accurate."

Pretty good.

Agnostic is simply "no knowledge" and is definitely a more humble position than Atheist if "Atheist" I'd defined as "no God." However, Atheist is actually "not a theist."

IMO, the important thing about choosing a label, if one deems it necessary, is the ability to explain how it is applicable to you. I found it necessary for myself in order to be able to "fellowship" with those of my community, and remain true to my actually beliefs.