Well I would half expect them to see that I have faith and go looking for someone who does not believe in Jesus - I have been told that mormons don't generally try to proselyte people who confess Jesus as Lord. But then again I suppose that's not official church teaching so I should have just took it as strictly off the record.
I'm afraid you're wrong. By far the largest
majority of our converts are from other Christian denominations. Only a relative few come Judaism, Islam, etc.
OK, lets say I had never read the book of mormon beofre or the other books you call scripture, and I have very little experience of speaking to mormons. I buy the story that these nice young men are fellow believers in Jesus and agree to go to the chapel with them, at what point am I going to be told the truth?
In the scenario you just described, at what point did "these nice you men" lie to you?
When will they drop the bomb that my beleifs are one of an apostate church. That the trinity is a "4th or 5th century doctrine," that the baptist and methodist creeds are an abomination to the Lord, that I need a baptism under the correct priesthood?
I can't possibly tell you when they would have raised each of these issues. It's different in every situation. The missionaries are encouraged to teach by the Spirit and, for the most part, that's what they do. Since you did have a little bit of knowledge about Mormonism when the missionaries called on you, your discussions with them would not have been expected to follow the same pattern they would have done had they been talking to someone who was completely unfamiliar with the Church. Joseph Smith's first vision, however, is always among the first things they address when introducing the Church to people who have no knowledge of it.
If he is sensible he will understand.
That's a matter of opinion. People with titles are accustomed to being addressed by those titles, whether it's Reverend, President, Senator, Bishop, Your Honor, etc. etc. It has nothing to do with being "sensible."
They wouldn't even tell me their names. Just elder so and so. I felt extremely uncomfortable at the thought of calling them elder and I still wouldn't, it is not about respect but for me elder is a postion in the church and it seemed wrong to callit someone who I view as outside of the church.
So call them, "Hey, you!' Whatever.
Once I asked them why the passage was missed out of the book and what they had come to tell me they tried to show me from the bible that the church would apostasise and be restored before the return of Christ, that the trinity was one example of this, how the book of mormon gave a more complete explanation of doctrine such as what it meant to "fulfill all righteousness" and salvation by faith alone. I listened and offered my defense - graciously. I looked at the verses they offered as proof and tried to discuss them until the leader refused to do so anymore.
Well, it sounds as if the discussion got started off pretty much as I would have expected it to. And the missionary who "refused" to discuss the verses in question with you, what reason did he give you for refusing?
The same as if a beggar visited my house to discuss faith - so that I could try to point him in the right path that leads to calvary so to speak.
I see. So it's okay for you to point someone in the direction you believe is right, but it's not okay for someone to point you in the direction he sees as right?
I'm not saying that, what i'm saying is that what they do not reveal and deliberatly conceal is dishonest - such as the pamphlet. They present themselves as fellow Christians when what they really believe is that I am an apostate Christian.
For crying out loud, Paul, they believe themselves to be fellow Christians. How is it dishonest for them to present themselves as how they see themselves? They believe you are a fellow Christian, too. To paraphrase my favorite LDS Apostle, "Consider our message. Measure it against what you believe and what you want to believe. Hold fast to everything you believe that is good and true, and if we can add to those truths, accept them too. Ask God if what we've told you is true. Then respond to what you believe He tells you."
I don't think that's all too much to ask. If you have listened to the missionaries with an open heart and asked God for guidance, that's all that anyone can expect of you. If His answer was, "No, Paul, what they are teaching is not the truth," then accept that answer and tell the missionaries you simply aren't interested. Just don't continue to try to paint them as deceitful, dishonest and underhanded. They aren't any of those things. The only thing they are guilty of is believing differently than you do.
Sorry I explained that wrong, what I meant was that is what I would like them to say when they come around - my problem is that they don't but beat around the bush.
You just got through saying, "They tried to show me from the bible that the church would apostasise and be restored before the return of Christ, that the trinity was one example of this, how the book of mormon gave a more complete explanation of doctrine such as what it meant to "fulfill all righteousness" and salvation by faith alone." That doesn't sound to me as if they were beating around the book. What it does sound like is that you're talking out of both sides of your mouth.
Salvation and all that pertains to obtaining it.
Uh... I guess you must have missed their point. They were talking about salvation. I can assure you they would have gotten around to "all that pertains to obtaining it." I know that to you, it's "by faith alone." Since, to us, it's not, it can't be summed up in three words.
No they didn't, they tried to sell me their church.
The Church isn't for sale, Paul. And the missionaries wouldn't have made a dime off of your conversion.
What is the point? What good would it do, from our point of view you are still in deadly error.
Yes, from your point of view, we are in deadly error. From our point, we have some additional knowledge and understanding that you might care to hear about. If you die a Baptist, we don't believe God will condemn you to an eternity in Hell. If the missionaries die LDS, you believe they will burn forever. And somehow they are still the ones that are being made to look self-righteous and judgmental.
If having heard that I was a baptist they may have said to me, Paul, we sincerely believe that you have been misled and are missing out on the fulness of the gospel, could we please discuss this with you, you are missing something so amazing. Simple, honest, heartfelt, sincere and loving. Easy.
My gosh, from what you told me, that's pretty much what they did say!
I never like to miss an opportunity.
Well, please do the next missionaries who call a favor. Tell them you want nothing to do with them. Don't even invite them in.
There would have been no need I always happily discussed things with him, If you were my friend would you have told me you were accompanying the missionaries to my house?
Probably. Most people would like to know that a friend of theirs would be there. But that's just me. You did know they were coming, though, so I don't see why it would make a whole lot of difference one way or the other.
They came at their own will, after telling them I was a Christian, I agreed to read their book and they wanted to follow up the next week to discuss it, I am always happy for the opportunity to talk to people about God.
Well, there's no need to repeat the same mistake twice, is there?
