Religious Tolerance -- Too much of a good thing?

[Sabio]

now wait a min, in your analogy you saw me eating a hamburger and offered me steak. where is the need? I wasn't starving, i was eating a hamburger. See, you presume to think that i was in need.

you dont seem to be getting it.

I know, I know, your trying to corner me with the argument that Christians go around judging everyone and pushing their religion...

The analogy was that if I had something that would fit the need I should be happy and willing to share it with you...

And the next obvious "chess move" is to say... "how do you know what I need, I will decide what I need and when, see you Christians presume to know what everybody else needs"

So... If I use this course of logic then I will just shut up and sit on the sidelines?

No. Then I would miss the opportunity to help someone who is truly in need! I'll take the chance of being rejected some of the time in order to help those who are in need.

Sabio

 

[Pah]

Moved here from the discussion section Of Religious Forums. When discussion of individual viewpoints are challanged and defended, it properly belongs in debate.

 

[DreamQuickBook]

now wait a min, in your analogy you saw me eating a hamburger and offered me steak. where is the need? I wasn't starving, I was eating a hamburger. See, you presume to think that I was in need. When someone doesn't need help the only thing a "good samaritan" is, is a pest. Sorry.

You dont seem to be getting it.

Nonchalance. Nonchalance is the way to deal with Christians when they try to "save" you. One thing you must understand is that people enjoy drama and excitement. It is stimulating to take on the ideas of others, to belittle them and to raise yourself up, high and mighty, upon the pedestal of righteousness. Many Christians need to tell you about their faith. It's like those people who come up and wash your car's windows at a traffic light and then ask for change. Are they kind of annoying? Yeah. But every once in a while, give them some change. And even when you don't, don't look all annoyed at them.

Don't allow yourself to get annoyed when someone comes to you with the Word of God. Your annoyance only makes them feel righteous. It makes them feel like, "See, I am happy and he is annoyed". Do not give them such satisfaction. Instead, if you do not have time for them. Simply smile and politely say, "I am sorry Ma'am, or Sir, I do not have time for you today. Maybe some other time." One of the most effective weapons that Evangelicals have is kindness. You've heard the term, "Kill them with Kindness"? That's what they do. The best way to fight back is with an even greater kindness. If you have time, ask them how they have been and if they are ok. Let them know that if there is something wrong with them, you are willing to help them out if you can (and be prepared to help). Always smile. Always be polite.

But trust me. Getting frustrated, annoyed or even angry only makes them feel all the more righteous; which will only annoy you more in the end!

 

[Sabio]

Nonchalance. Nonchalance is the way to deal with Christians when they try to "save" you. One thing you must understand is that people enjoy drama and excitement. It is stimulating to take on the ideas of others, to belittle them and to raise yourself up, high and mighty, upon the pedestal of righteousness. Many Christians need to tell you about their faith. It's like those people who come up and wash your car's windows at a traffic light and then ask for change.

Jocose,

C'mon now, comparing Christians to "people who come up and wash your car's windows at a traffic light" !

If I were not a Christian I would have to say that you are showing your intolerance for "street people", surely they have a right to make a living...

See how silly it can get?

Sabio

 

[DreamQuickBook]

Jocose,

C'mon now, comparing Christians to "people who come up and wash your car's windows at a traffic light" !

If I were not a Christian I would have to say that you are showing your intolerance for "street people", surely they have a right to make a living...

See how silly it can get?

Sabio

No. In fact, if you would reread my post, you'd see that I encourage people to be generous with "Street People" and to be polite. It is the intrusion that is similar in the analogy, Sabio. You do not ask to hear the word of god, nor do you ask to have your window's washed. The feelings that arise from intrusion are natural, but I was simply offering a more mature and effective way of dealing with those uncomfortable situations, than annoyance and frustration.

 

[Sabio]

No. In fact, if you would reread my post, you'd see that I encourage people to be generous with "Street People" and to be polite. It is the intrusion that is similar in the analogy, Sabio. You do not ask to hear the word of god, nor do you ask to have your window's washed. The feelings that arise from intrusion are natural, but I was simply offering a more mature and effective way of dealing with those uncomfortable situations, than annoyance and frustration.

Jocose,

I already knew that you would be generous with street people from earlier posts.

This discussion is an endless loop, so I will loop out...

Later

Sabio

 

[Melody]

Sorry, but handing out newsletters saying "Join Jesus now or be damned!" is nothing of the kind. Your religion has relied on shock tactics and a fear of hell to get people into your religion in the first place.

Since you are quoting my post, I will assume the *your* means me and I must say you are way off base.

First, I don't have a religion. I have a faith and my faith does not advocate threatening people into heaven or rely on shock tactics or fear. I pity those who promote hell and damnation because they've missed the whole point of Jesus' message. My .02....if you only believe because of the fear of what happens if you don't, I kind of wonder whether you really believe or have just convinced yourself you do in order to hedge your bet.

Also, I don't try to convince people to "get into my religion". First because I don't have one and second, that's up to God. All I can do is spread the word and I usually do this through example although am quite willing to do it verbally if someone expresses an interest.

The real question is, how do you convince someone that has sided with the Devil to get into your religion

It's not up to me...it's up to God and if someone has decided to side with "the devil" then they probably have also decided to close their ears and eyes to his message. That is their choice.

Honestly, I would love to believe (trust me, I REALLY want to) that Christianity holds people in by love, dedication and a brighter path. Sadly, I believe that if people had no fear of going to hell, Christianity would be all but empty.

I can't argue that a large number of people believe because they fear the afterlife....but there are many believers who believe because they've heard Christ's message, feel His love and believe His promise and are looking forward to the day they go "home". Why take a onesided view? Whenever I hear people knock Christianity, they always bring up the negative aspects that are being promoted by (and this is just my opinion) those with their own axe to grind....which has little to do with Christ.

I find it interesting that you define your religion by greed and material wealth.

I'm thinking this was not directed towards me since my faith doesn't even have a building so greed and material wealth don't even enter into the equation.

 

[Melody]

now wait a min, in your analogy you saw me eating a hamburger and offered me steak. where is the need? I wasn't starving, I was eating a hamburger. See, you presume to think that I was in need. When someone doesn't need help the only thing a "good samaritan" is, is a pest. Sorry.

You dont seem to be getting it.

It's a generosity of spirit. He's eating steak (which many people consider better and will prefer over hamburger). He sees you eating hamburger and wants to share his good thing. You can say, "no thanks, I prefer my hamburger" and no harm, no foul and he will back off.

God's Word is the same. If he sees a need, he makes the offer. You're free to say "thanks, but no thanks" politely or be an *** and be rude.

 

[DreamQuickBook]

It's a generosity of spirit. He's eating steak (which many people consider better and will prefer over hamburger). He sees you eating hamburger and wants to share his good thing. You can say, "no thanks, I prefer my hamburger" and no harm, no foul and he will back off.

God's Word is the same. If he sees a need, he makes the offer. You're free to say "thanks, but no thanks" politely or be an *** and be rude.

I would prefer to simply offer him a much tastier and more pleasant steak. Why should anyone be forced to simply eat any old madcow ridden steak! Oh! But my steak is so beefy and juicy, it will wet the lips of even the most content!

Instinct, simply explain that your beliefs are not "hamburger" and to the person offering you "steak", offer your kindness and compassion, and help them in anyway you can. Their proselytizing may simply be a cry for help. Be compassionate towards them.

 

[natural_instinct]

I would prefer to simply offer him a much tastier and more pleasant steak. Why should anyone be forced to simply eat any old madcow ridden steak! Oh! But my steak is so beefy and juicy, it will wet the lips of even the most content!

Instinct, simply explain that your beliefs are not "hamburger" and to the person offering you "steak", offer your kindness and compassion, and help them in anyway you can. Their proselytizing may simply be a cry for help. Be compassionate towards them.

I didn't want to lead people to believe that I in fact get annoyed with them, or treat them with anything less than civility and kindness. I was just trying to discuss the presumption that is made. One thing I am is kind and gracious to people, even to those who dont feel the same towards me.

Not to mention if we stop with the steak analogy which is pretty cut and dry, you see what someone eats, you dont see a belief. Offering moral help and spirituality to people you dont even know because they believe in something completely different is a different story. You cant say those people that come to your door with leaflets, who have never seen you before, see that you are in need and that is why they are there.

I dont believe you have tolerance at all, and i'm sorry if that offends you. I think that if someone disagrees with what you believe in, you dont really tolerate what they believe in, you just pity them, or better pray for them and hope one day they will truly see the light of God.

That is not tolerance.

 

[DreamQuickBook]

ummm... I'm assuming that this wasn't in response to my post.

 

[natural_instinct]

ummm... I'm assuming that this wasn't in response to my post.

No, I'm sorry it wasn't directed towards you. I was referring to Sabio.

 

[KirbyFan101]

Well, you are quite wrong as far as that is concerned, because that is certainly the least of my criteria for being a Christian.

Why would anyone lead a life of abstinence for no good reason.

I find it interesting that whilst Sabio was using a metaphor to represent spiritual wealth, you should immediately assume he meant hard cash - perhaps you might get your vision levelled a bit higher than your wallet.

My wallet pays the bills! Repsect. :biglaugh:

 

[KirbyFan101]

Since you are quoting my post, I will assume the *your* means me and I must say you are way off base.

First, I don't have a religion. I have a faith and my faith does not advocate threatening people into heaven or rely on shock tactics or fear. I pity those who promote hell and damnation because they've missed the whole point of Jesus' message. My .02....if you only believe because of the fear of what happens if you don't, I kind of wonder whether you really believe or have just convinced yourself you do in order to hedge your bet.

Also, I don't try to convince people to "get into my religion". First because I don't have one and second, that's up to God. All I can do is spread the word and I usually do this through example although am quite willing to do it verbally if someone expresses an interest.

It's not up to me...it's up to God and if someone has decided to side with "the devil" then they probably have also decided to close their ears and eyes to his message. That is their choice.

I can't argue that a large number of people believe because they fear the afterlife....but there are many believers who believe because they've heard Christ's message, feel His love and believe His promise and are looking forward to the day they go "home". Why take a onesided view? Whenever I hear people knock Christianity, they always bring up the negative aspects that are being promoted by (and this is just my opinion) those with their own axe to grind....which has little to do with Christ.

I'm thinking this was not directed towards me since my faith doesn't even have a building so greed and material wealth don't even enter into the equation.

I used your post to build off my own. Not necessarily directed at you. Sorry for the misunderstanding.

 

[StephenSmith]

By this act, it appears that your church and all those who were in on this gift of "Korans" has stated that you do not believe salvation is only found through Christ since you've just handed out books that contradicts this belief.

One thing I dont think has been made clear and that is the following: when the LDS church provided the assistance to the Tsunami victims by way of food, clothing, medicine etc, they asked "is there something else we can do?" and the answer was, "well, all our Korans have been washed away, it would be really nice if we could get some"

So they decided to provide some. Now what is the problem in that?

 

[MagickIsFun]

no problem at all. as that french person said a really long time ago, Let them read Korans!:jiggy:

 

[michel]

One thing I dont think has been made clear and that is the following: when the LDS church provided the assistance to the Tsunami victims by way of food, clothing, medicine etc, they asked "is there something else we can do?" and the answer was, "well, all our Korans have been washed away, it would be really nice if we could get some"

So they decided to provide some. Now what is the problem in that?

Hi Stephen;

As you say, what is the problem in that? - a nice story, thank you for sharing it.

I happened to notice that this is your first post, and therefore wanted to welcome you to the forum - hope you like it here.

 

[TashaN]

Personally, I think its great your church can set aside religious differences and help.
Im not trying to put down your church, but they could be giving away things to help worship what you would call false gods to show the love of your god. You church could just be letting those across the seas know that someone does care about thier way of life. I can think of many other reasons, but those are the two big ones.

i totally agree with you Luke Wolf

these 2 reasons are the two big ones in order to show others where those good guys with thier help came from and what is thier religion.

 

[flacsmada]

Jesus helped people because He cared for them, but look what He did in the temple when they made a mockery of it. And look what God had isiah do to the prophets of baal. And daniel deny to worship the king as GOd and be sent to the lions den. I believe when God says that He is GOd and there is no other He means it. So when you support other gods then you deny Yahweh as the true God and that is clear. Again Jesus helped people, but denied the thief who denied Him, so why would He accept a group of people who deny Him? A good question i think. I hope this helped

Adam

 

[ayani]

So, I'm curious... What do you all think? Should Christians stick to helping other Christians worship God? Should Christian humanitarian efforts be limited to providing toothbrushes and soap to non-Christian people?

personally, i'm touched by the distribution of Korans to faithful Muslims in crisis. if you ask me, a non-Christian, what i think of Christians offering spiritual help to those who are not Christian, i'd say that i am very impressed and encouraged by this news.

i believe that Christians can feel the same way. "when you do this unto the least of these, you do so unto me". Christians can both serve Christ and serve those who are not Christian by showing them the compassion and tollerance that Christ's teachings inspire in them. and this is, i feel, the best way to respond to crisis on an inter-faith scale.