Religious views on abortion

[Suave]

Many atheists claim that if there is a husband who's wife cheated on him but was not caught in the act, she could be forced to have an abortion, according to the Bible.
As can be seen (in the polular video cited) here: Is God pro-abortion?

It's but a myth, I think. They use a Bible verse about a hip or a thigh... and pretend it's about the womb.

But now, since Bible sees unborn life as human, it's obvious that it must stay untouched. See for instance: in Genesis 25:23 God talks about the twins in the womb as real persons: saying "the older one" and "the younger one" - in the womb already!

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With reagard to the text that @URAVIP2ME cited, it's like this: if the pregnant woman is harmed in a way that the unborn comes out... it's a fine.

But if death is involved, this passage requires life for life in this case.

So this cannot count as a text saying that induced abortion is a fine only.

Now, many liberal translations (and also some atheists here) simply change the wording and replace a Hebrew word that can mean miscarriage or preterm birth by simply miscarriage.

We all now that not every every unborn dies in case of pregnancies that end before 37 weeks of gestation.

I hate all translations that put it that way. Quite a few do this.

edited for clarity

Many atheists claim that if there is a husband who's wife cheated on him but was not caught in the act, she could be forced to have an abortion, according to the Bible.
As can be seen (in the polular video cited) here: Is God pro-abortion?

It's but a myth, I think. They use a Bible verse about a hip or a thigh... and pretend it's about the womb.

But now, since Bible sees unborn life as human, it's obvious that it must stay untouched. See for instance: in Genesis 25:23 God talks about the twins in the womb as real persons: saying "the older one" and "the younger one" - in the womb already!

----------------------
With reagard to the text that @URAVIP2ME cited, it's like this: if the pregnant woman is harmed in a way that the unborn comes out... it's a fine.

But if death is involved, this passage requires life for life in this case.

So this cannot count as a text saying that induced abortion is a fine only.

Now, many liberal translations (and also some atheists here) simply change the wording and replace a Hebrew word that can mean miscarriage or preterm birth by simply miscarriage.

We all now that not every every unborn dies in case of pregnancies that end before 37 weeks of gestation.

I hate all translations that put it that way. Quite a few do this.

edited for clarity

The biblical God did prescribe abortions by commanding priests to administer a magical abortion potion to cause a woman to miscarry a fetus fathered by a man other than the impregnated woman''s husband.

 

[thomas t]

The biblical God did prescribe abortions by commanding priests to administer a magical abortion potion to cause a woman to miscarry a fetus fathered by a man other than the impregnated woman''s husband.

no please. This is a myth,
there is a Bible verse saying that in case of infidelity, the woman will need to drink that potion causing her thighs to fall.
Some atheists replace "thighs" by "womb" and read an abortion into the text by doing so.
Yet, even men have thighs.
BTW my translation reads hips instead of thighs. But here too, even men have hips and the whole point is moot.

 

[Suave]

no please. This is a myth,
there is a Bible verse saying that in case of infidelity, the woman will need to drink that potion causing her thighs to fall.
Some atheists replace "thighs" by "womb" and read an abortion into the text by doing so.
Yet, even men have thighs.
BTW my translation reads hips instead of thighs. But here too, even men have hips and the whole point is moot.

I am following the New International Version translation. My bad, I should have clarified which translation I was following.

 

[McBell]

no please. This is a myth,
there is a Bible verse saying that in case of infidelity, the woman will need to drink that potion causing her thighs to fall.
Some atheists replace "thighs" by "womb" and read an abortion into the text by doing so.
Yet, even men have thighs.
BTW my translation reads hips instead of thighs. But here too, even men have hips and the whole point is moot.

Numbers 5:22
Thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot - What is meant by these expressions cannot be easily ascertained. לנפל ירך lanpel yarech signifies literally thy thigh to fall. As the thigh, feet, etc., were used among the Hebrews delicately to express the parts which nature conceals, (see Gen_46:26), the expression here is probably to be understood in this sense; and the falling down of the thigh here must mean something similar to the prolapsus uteri, or falling down of the womb, which might be a natural effect of the preternatural distension of the abdomen. In 1Co_11:29, St. Paul seems to allude to the case of the guilty woman drinking the bitter cursed waters that caused her destruction: He who eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation (κριμα, condemnation or judgment) to himself; and there is probably a reference to the same thing in Psa_109:18, and in Dan_9:11.
​

Adam Clarke's Commentary On The Bible


​

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

How? Is god not the only one who can judge and punish others for their sins?

Capital punishment is not ever denounced once in the Bible or even in Church Tradition (aside from the last few decades with some more liberal minded Christians coming out against it, but that is a modern thing). Even Jesus when He was dying on the cross as an innocent person, didn't denounce it. The penitent thief crucified along with Him even said he and the other thief deserved it.

In Christianity, we believe that God wants us to set up systems of justice and that the State has the right to use force to protect society and to punish criminals.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Except that Exodus has nothing to do with abortion.
If the unborn was lost then a fine was paid.
If the mother died then it was the death penalty.
It is about compensation for the loss of property.
Not about abortion.

Except that caused the unborn to be aborted.
Nothing is mentioned about the age or stage of the unborn as being a factor in God's judgement.
The unborn is Not considered as property but as life.
The 'blueprint' for life is there from the beginning of conception - Psalms 139:15-16.
As if 'written' down (DNA)
To me it is Not whether humans agree but what is God's understanding view.
New human life was considered as a blessing - Psalms 127:3; Psalms 128:3 B; Genesis 29:35; Genesis 30:6
In Scripture the taking of life was either unintentional or on purpose.(murder or manslaughter)
By Exodus 21:23 saying ' life for life ' equates the fatal loss the the unborn as equal life.
So, the unborn person is a human individual, therefore to destroy such life violates the 6th commandment.
This makes ALL human life as sacred in God's eyes.
So, how much worse in God's eyes to deliberately take the life of the unborn for selfish reasons.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The Hebrew in the Exodus passage refers to harm to the woman not the foetus. Causing an accidental miscarriage was a civil crime not a criminal one.

I find in verse 22 speaking about circumstances that cause the fatal loss of the unborn.
So, verse 23 is speaking about the loss or fatality or either mother or her unborn and Not just concern for the mother.
Thus, under the Law it would Not be practical to link injury to just one or the other alone.

So, the degree of intent would play into the picture of being either civil or criminal crime.( manslaughter or murder )
This is why such a matter would be brought to the attention of the judges - Numbers 35:22-24,31

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Could you be a bit more specific about this?
Perhaps give an example.

Since we are all imperfect an 'infectious disease that can't be cured' could be a valid reason for abortion.
Problems with STD's, AIDS, herpes. That new Ebola strain did cause pregnancy troubles.
Some sicknesses can be beyond helping.
So, the point to me is whether the problem is beyond hope.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

fetuses aren't considered living souls by the bible. a living soul is one that contains the breath of life and is autonomous. auto- literally means self.
a fetus is a member of a body. you cannot have two spirits inhabiting one body long-term based on the understanding of the bible. that is possession

True, the unborn is Not breathing as we breathe, but the mother is breathing, so to speak, for both.
Each person has his own spirit ( "IT" ) - Ecclesiastes 12:7 B.

 

[McBell]

Except that caused the unborn to be aborted.
Nothing is mentioned about the age or stage of the unborn as being a factor in God's judgement.
The unborn is Not considered as property but as life.
The 'blueprint' for life is there from the beginning of conception - Psalms 139:15-16.
As if 'written' down (DNA)
To me it is Not whether humans agree but what is God's understanding view.
New human life was considered as a blessing - Psalms 127:3; Psalms 128:3 B; Genesis 29:35; Genesis 30:6
In Scripture the taking of life was either unintentional or on purpose.(murder or manslaughter)
By Exodus 21:23 saying ' life for life ' equates the fatal loss the the unborn as equal life.
So, the unborn person is a human individual, therefore to destroy such life violates the 6th commandment.
This makes ALL human life as sacred in God's eyes.
So, how much worse in God's eyes to deliberately take the life of the unborn for selfish reasons.

The killing of an unborn in the Bible resulted in paying a fine.

Now I understand how that may not jive with your beliefs, but it is what it is.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

The killing of an unborn in the Bible resulted in paying a fine.
Now I understand how that may not jive with your beliefs, but it is what it is.

She gives birth but No fatality or serious injury results...Exodus 21:22 ... then damages are imposed.....
But if a fatality does occur it is ' life for life ' - Exodus 21:23
Does Not say just mother's life, does Not say just unborn's life.

 

[thomas t]

Numbers 5:22
Thy belly to swell, and thy thigh to rot - What is meant by these expressions cannot be easily ascertained. לנפל ירך lanpel yarech signifies literally thy thigh to fall. As the thigh, feet, etc., were used among the Hebrews delicately to express the parts which nature conceals, (see Gen_46:26), the expression here is probably to be understood in this sense; and the falling down of the thigh here must mean something similar to the prolapsus uteri, or falling down of the womb, which might be a natural effect of the preternatural distension of the abdomen. In 1Co_11:29, St. Paul seems to allude to the case of the guilty woman drinking the bitter cursed waters that caused her destruction: He who eateth and drinketh unworthily, eateth and drinketh damnation (κριμα, condemnation or judgment) to himself; and there is probably a reference to the same thing in Psa_109:18, and in Dan_9:11.
​

Adam Clarke's Commentary On The Bible
​

This is what Adam Clarke has to say. He says "probably understood " in this sense.
I don't agree.
It means thigh to fall.
In my opinion this means simply losing her sexy figure.
a fallen hip and a swallen belly - this is not sexy.

Even if it means "probably" according to him, God NEVER condones abortion, as I see it, let's be pragmatic here. Being fat and a fallen hip cannot look sexy, at least it does not to me.
sexy is curvy, in a good sense, I think.

 

[viole]

A horrible situation.

Conceived In Rape Children – Choices4Life

10 Celebrities Who Were Conceived By Rape or Bore a Child Out of Rape - Tinseltown Mom

I think life is precious. Regardless, the life of the person raped is ever so precious too!

Yes, fine, but does that mean that abortion is justified in that case?

Ciao

- viole

 

[BilliardsBall]

How? Is god not the only one who can judge and punish others for their sins?

That's not a biblical perspective, for example, Romans 13 says God has instituted human governance, mostly to reward the law-abiding and punish lawbreakers.

Are you advocating no prisons and no human punishment for rape or murder because "only God can punish" (on Earth)?

 

[BilliardsBall]

Late abortion? What is late for you?
In Sweden, for instance, it is after the 18th week (before that, termination can be carried out if the woman wants to for whatever reason). And that looks sensible.

Ciao

- viole

It's late when a baby is killed. I would say that life begins at conception.

 

[BilliardsBall]

But it is you who is actually making that choice-- not God.

God did not tell us that we must kill a murderer when there's a less lethal alternative. When in Sinai, we didn't have jails or prisons but now we do. The prophets demanded mercy once eretz Israel had jails and places of refuge.

Thus, in today's world, capital punishment is just man's revenge-- not God's.

While I'm at it, should we stone to death adulterers? Should we stone to death women who may have had an abortion? Logically, if you're still proposing killing murderers because it's found in Torah, then these two groups must also be stoned as well.

**

"God did not tell us that we must kill a murderer when there's a less lethal alternative" - He certainly did, in the Mosaic Law.

I'd have no problem with killing adulterers, it would greatly serve as a deterrent against adultery, which destroys spouses and children. KILLS them, if you will. Adultery is a terrible sin.

I agree with God in the scriptures.

 

[viole]

It's late when a baby is killed. I would say that life begins at conception.

Well, then your 8 weeks stuff is totally moot, right?

Ciao

- viole

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That's not a biblical perspective, for example, Romans 13 says God has instituted human governance, mostly to reward the law-abiding and punish lawbreakers.

Are you advocating no prisons and no human punishment for rape or murder because "only God can punish" (on Earth)?

No. I was thinking only the christian's god (per scripture) would make decisions of life and death of a person. We keep society running by enacting punishment for lawbreakers but when you side with the law by assuming every person who does only X crime and not that doesn't deserve to live, I feel there's a problem. The value of life in and of itself shouldn't be determined by another human. If we really appreciate life and living and present moment and all of that, we would at least see people as good by default not plagued by inherited sin.

People receive consequences for their actions.... I just don't feel putting someone to death not morally and I would hope one day not legally justified.

 

[metis]

"God did not tell us that we must kill a murderer when there's a less lethal alternative" - He certainly did, in the Mosaic Law.

I'd have no problem with killing adulterers, it would greatly serve as a deterrent against adultery, which destroys spouses and children. KILLS them, if you will. Adultery is a terrible sin.

Well:

John.8
[1] but Jesus went to the Mount of Olives.
[2] Early in the morning he came again to the temple; all the people came to him, and he sat down and taught them.
[3] The scribes and the Pharisees brought a woman who had been caught in adultery, and placing her in the midst
[4] they said to him, "Teacher, this woman has been caught in the act of adultery.
[5] Now in the law Moses commanded us to stone such. What do you say about her?"
[6] This they said to test him, that they might have some charge to bring against him. Jesus bent down and wrote with his finger on the ground.
[7] And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, "Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her."

Under Jewish Law, they had the full right to stone her, but did Jesus tell them to just go ahead and do as such? Plus you avoided my other questions about whether you think that adulterers and those women who have an abortion should be stoned today?

No, what you rather clearly have more bought into with this is secular politics, thus not what's actually found in the Gospel.

BTW, there's many other pro-life issues as well that you seem to ignore based on my observations of seeing many other posts of yours over time.

 

[McBell]

This is what Adam Clarke has to say. He says "probably understood " in this sense.
I don't agree.
It means thigh to fall.
In my opinion this means simply losing her sexy figure.
a fallen hip and a swallen belly - this is not sexy.

Even if it means "probably" according to him, God NEVER condones abortion, as I see it, let's be pragmatic here. Being fat and a fallen hip cannot look sexy, at least it does not to me.
sexy is curvy, in a good sense, I think.

What, exactly, do you think "thigh to fall" means?
What is the current medical name for that "condition"?

As for your personal opinions of what god would or would not condone...
It is as worthless as you claim my opinion and the opinion of Adam Clarke are, right?

So pease give a straight forward answer to me straight forward questions:

What, exactly, do you think "thigh to fall" means?
What is the current medical name for that "condition"?​