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Religous People: What Convinced You To OBEY and BELEIVE In A God/Gods/Higher Power ?

U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
q konn said:
///


You're conflating theism with your own ideas of what theism means. It's a subjective belief that you are presenting, not an actual ''this, or that'', scenario. So, in that sense, using the word theism is a fallacy.

ie ,
''people give presents on x-mas''
''I am against holidays''
''therefore Jesus isn't real''.
That's crude, but I think it illustrates the problem in your comments.

you also contradicted yourself, somewhat, in that you state you do not believe in deities, then go on to describe the type of deities you believe in/?/ confusing.
Click to expand...

I believe atheism is the opposite of theism.

When I think of deities, I think of actual entities rather than personifications of aspects of life. For example, the sun isn't a deity; but, it can be deified since people worship the sun. The Abrahamic God, for example, does not need humans (in the Abrahamic perpective) for it to be God. There isn't a personification. Spirits of the sun, moon, stars, etc maybe deities to many polytheist and some pagans are personifications. I see them a spirits since spirits don't have that "heirarchy" that comes with deities. That, and deities seems like something I'd see on t.v.

The Lotus Sutra has deities and they are (not personal opinion) personifications of our emotions from hell and demons (attachments etc and emotions of greed, anger, lust... etc) that prevent us from enligthenment to different stages of types of enligthenemented people unto the Buddha, full enligthened.

It's a cultural thing. As for actual entities, no I don't believe they exists. Too sci-fi for me.

It does sound like a contradition. Deities have different traits than spirits do. At least, that's how I see it. IF they are the same; then, I do believe in deities just not theistic ones. (From Christian to Hindu)
 
P

Paranoid Android

Active Member
Carlita said:
I believe atheism is the opposite of theism.

When I think of deities, I think of actual entities rather than personifications of aspects of life. For example, the sun isn't a deity; but, it can be deified since people worship the sun. The Abrahamic God, for example, does not need humans (in the Abrahamic perpective) for it to be God. There isn't a personification. Spirits of the sun, moon, stars, etc maybe deities to many polytheist and some pagans are personifications. I see them a spirits since spirits don't have that "heirarchy" that comes with deities. That, and deities seems like something I'd see on t.v.

The Lotus Sutra has deities and they are (not personal opinion) personifications of our emotions from hell and demons (attachments etc and emotions of greed, anger, lust... etc) that prevent us from enligthenment to different stages of types of enligthenemented people unto the Buddha, full enligthened.

It's a cultural thing. As for actual entities, no I don't believe they exists. Too sci-fi for me.

It does sound like a contradition. Deities have different traits than spirits do. At least, that's how I see it. IF they are the same; then, I do believe in deities just not theistic ones. (From Christian to Hindu)
Click to expand...


To me, atheism is an irrational belief system. I put "heresy" in there to communicate the idea. I am wondering though, what reason do atheists have to convert other people to atheism ? That sounds closer to religion to me.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Paranoid Android said:
To me, atheism is an irrational belief system. I put "heresy" in there to communicate the idea. I am wondering though, what reason do atheists have to convert other people to atheism ? That sounds closer to religion to me.
Click to expand...

I actually haven't known atheist in person who want to convert people to atheism. I only see a hint of that online. I also find it kind of silly to debate over the definition of atheism and call it heresy. It reminds me of Christians calling other faiths bad because they don't agree with their God's reasoning. It's also an insult to many atheist who live spiritual lives without needing to believe in deities and even the supernatural to do so.

I honestly wouldn't know how an atheist would convince any person of any religion that their religion is false. Religion makes up a person's worldview. To many hard core atheist, worldview may have to do with their culture, their family, their mate, theirselves. That is the only religion I see when it comes to an atheist worldview is their relationship with how they see and live in the world with themselves and others. That is religion to me. I don't see atheism as a belief system. Living in relationship with self and others is what all people with or without deities and the supernatural. It's life.
 
P

Paranoid Android

Active Member
Carlita said:
I actually haven't known atheist in person who want to convert people to atheism. I only see a hint of that online. I also find it kind of silly to debate over the definition of atheism and call it heresy. It reminds me of Christians calling other faiths bad because they don't agree with their God's reasoning. It's also an insult to many atheist who live spiritual lives without needing to believe in deities and even the supernatural to do so.

I honestly wouldn't know how an atheist would convince any person of any religion that their religion is false. Religion makes up a person's worldview. To many hard core atheist, worldview may have to do with their culture, their family, their mate, theirselves. That is the only religion I see when it comes to an atheist worldview is their relationship with how they see and live in the world with themselves and others. That is religion to me. I don't see atheism as a belief system. Living in relationship with self and others is what all people with or without deities and the supernatural. It's life.
Click to expand...


Certainly, you can or you can not believe in anything you choose. However, I would think athi]eism as well as theism is an unprovable belief. Both beleifs can not proof there main assertion, that is, there is or is not a God. Agnosticism seems more logical, because it simply says "I don't know". Maybe something will or will not prove it to me later in life.
Also, there has been an outreach by atheist authors. I feel that one can have that belief, certainly. But since you don't care if or if not a person agrees with you, then why even write books about it ? Why talk to people about it ? Most people attempt to avoid a discussion of religion, so how logically would a conversation with a stranger start about atheism ? Seems more like the televangelists on television.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Paranoid Android said:
Certainly, you can or you can not believe in anything you choose. However, I would think athi]eism as well as theism is an unprovable belief. Both beleifs can not proof there main assertion, that is, there is or is not a God. Agnosticism seems more logical, because it simply says "I don't know". Maybe something will or will not prove it to me later in life.
Also, there has been an outreach by atheist authors. I feel that one can have that belief, certainly. But since you don't care if or if not a person agrees with you, then why even write books about it ? Why talk to people about it ? Most people attempt to avoid a discussion of religion, so how logically would a conversation with a stranger start about atheism ? Seems more like the televangelists on television.
Click to expand...

Eh. Don't know. It doesn't reflect that atheism is just disbelief in Gods. If there were no theist, there'd be no atheist. So, I don't see a belief system in it just a disbelief in the belief system atheist holds.

As for agnostic, I never really liked that position. I don't like living lies, but then I don't like being in the middle saying "I can live this way by not not knowing". There is a way to accept what we have been accustomed to for years as false. Yet, religion has saved millions of people and killed millions of people.

That, and it sounds you have a bit of a pet peeve with atheism for some reason. Dont know what to say about that, really. I am pretty simple with what I dont believe. If someone asks if I believe in God, I say no.

Maybe you're conflicting belief with knowledge. It's a bold claim to say one knows there is no God. Most atheist I know say there is no God because that is what they believe.

Don't know about t.v. people. Money and publicity.
 
P

Paranoid Android

Active Member
Carlita said:
Eh. Don't know. It doesn't reflect that atheism is just disbelief in Gods. If there were no theist, there'd be no atheist. So, I don't see a belief system in it just a disbelief in the belief system atheist holds.

As for agnostic, I never really liked that position. I don't like living lies, but then I don't like being in the middle saying "I can live this way by not not knowing". There is a way to accept what we have been accustomed to for years as false. Yet, religion has saved millions of people and killed millions of people.

That, and it sounds you have a bit of a pet peeve with atheism for some reason. Dont know what to say about that, really. I am pretty simple with what I dont believe. If someone asks if I believe in God, I say no.

Maybe you're conflicting belief with knowledge. It's a bold claim to say one knows there is no God. Most atheist I know say there is no God because that is what they believe.

Don't know about t.v. people. Money and publicity.
Click to expand...


No, atheists don't bother me. First of all, most are Squares and are going to burn in Hell forever anyway.

Second, more people are religious than atheist. You are a tiny minority.

Third, you don't push your unbelief on me. So I don't care.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Paranoid Android said:
No, atheists don't bother me. First of all, most are Squares and are going to burn in Hell forever anyway.

Second, more people are religious than atheist. You are a tiny minority.

Third, you don't push your unbelief on me. So I don't care.
Click to expand...

Eh. May seem that way. I am religious; but, thanks. I dont like pushing my beliefs on anyone. I never was an evangalist.
 
Vishvavajra

Vishvavajra

Active Member
Nothing so far has convinced me to believe in, much less obey, a higher power. Despite that I'd still consider myself religious. Buddhism is an odd religion in that it's perfectly compatible with atheism, provided the atheist doesn't get all dogmatic about it.

There are gods in Buddhist myths and religious iconography, but there are lots of ways to interpret them, and in any case the religion is not about pleasing them. They mostly represent how the Dharma has integrated to the native culture.
 
David1967

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Paranoid Android said:
What convinced you to be religious and BELEIVE in God/Gods/Higher Power ? What convinced you not to follow the heresy of Atheism ?
Click to expand...
I was raised in church and as a result of that I don't believe there has ever been a time in my life where I questioned the existence of God. I have however and still do question mans interpretation of God. The fact that we have so many religions and denominations and the fact that there are many people on this forum tells me I am not alone.
 
Politesse

Politesse

Amor Vincit Omnia
What's wrong with atheism?

Actually, what's wrong with heresy?

I was raised Christian, nurtured by the comforting thrum of a pantheistic God who was in everything, knew everything, taught everything. Learned to see God in the wind and the trees and the high places, knew to listen for the small quiet voice in the dark. I knew about atheists, too - my parents, though also Christian, were both scientists- but their truths were a bit distant to me. I never thought atheism was wrong in some moral sense, nor would I have been interested in religious debate. One can have sight without hating the blind.

Eventually, I grew up and learned that we are all blind - the world we grow up in is not a neutral quality, it is socially and politically and even emotionally bounded. We get blinded to some things, addicted to others; we can fall into to our traditions or kick against them, but we cannot forget them- they are the constraints on our perception, and we surpass them only with care and long study. By the time I realized this, and had started letting some other traditions and cosmologies into my worldview, I was beyond the point of picking one and sticking to it, not atheism or any other perspective. I had given too much of myself to the service of God, for one. And grown used to including the spiritual landscape in my map of the world and other people.

And I do in fact trust the Gods to take care of me. That's just a matter of experience when it comes down to it. They have so far. And anyone who glibly ignores the pronouncements of a god is being a little foolish, in my opinion, like a child protesting its parents' judgment. The child is right to do so, sometimes. But a prudent child doesn't do it lightly or without thought.

So here I am, child of God, humanitarian, anthropologist, Christo-Pagan what-have-you. Even atheism is useful to me sometimes. When pondering a materialist problem, it can be useful to send that razor flying and eliminate all entities that aren't related to the issue at hand. But it's a mental exercise for me. When I'm done, I open my eyes and let the crazy, confusing, contradictory music of the true kosmos flow in again.
 
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Emi

Emi

Proud to be a Pustra!
Paranoid Android said:
What convinced you to be religious and BELEIVE in God/Gods/Higher Power ? What convinced you not to follow the heresy of Atheism ?
Click to expand...

I chose my faith because it corresponded to my beliefs. It was light a lightbulb going off in my mind. However, atheism is far from heresy. It is merely a lack of belief.
 
Saint Frankenstein

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Atheism is completely nonsensical to me and polytheism never clicked with me. I came to the conclusion that Catholicism is the Truth through study and experience.
 
Tarheeler

Tarheeler

Argumentative Curmudgeon
Premium Member
Paranoid Android said:
Yes. But a lot of people were convinced to embrace the heresy of Atheism. What kept you from embracing that heresy ?
Click to expand...
For me, it was the same thing that kept them from embracing theism: You can't force yourself to believe something.

I went through a period where I really wanted to not believe, but I couldn't force it to happen. I could be apathetic, I could be non-observant, I could even be hostile towards religion, but I couldn't force myself to not believe in God.

The "obeying" part was a conscious decision. I chose to begin living in accordance with my religion; I decided that living my life by following Torah would allow me to be the best man I could be. And I am a far better person today because of it.
 
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