Remove ’Everybody Draw Muhammad Day’ from Facebook

[McBell]

You don't demand the storm's respect.

Unless, of course, you are a Muslim....

Then not only do you demand respect, you kill because you did not get the respect you think you should have gotten.

Hypocrite much?

 

[Riverwolf]

What, they're going to bomb every Western city? They don't have the manpower or the capability to cover-up an operation of that scale.

One bomb, one person, is one too many.

Can you imagine how many people would have died if the Times Square bomb had succeeded?

 

[Riverwolf]

Unless, of course, you are a Muslim....

Then not only do you demand respect, you kill because you did not get the respect you think you should have gotten.

Hypocrite much?

Guess both sides are storms demanding respect from the other.

You know these guys will just keep killing. These aren't intelligent people we're dealing with; these people are basically psychopaths.

 

[Bismillah]

Children might get pretty upset over pictures.

Would you equate the "liberal muslim population" 's maturity level to be on par?

No, only upset over the double standards with which the West applies its much beholden freedoms.

African-American Civil Rights Movement (1955–1968) - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Just because the practice is outlawed doesn't mean it doesn't happen, frequently.

The rest of your comment was just "no". Instead of just covering your eyes and ears and shouting nonono, why don't you defend it?

Avoid BAAWWWW?

Perhaps it presented a public danger?

I would merely point out the difference between inherited genes and accultured ontology.

Please explain this

The fact remains that freedom of speech is arbitrarily selected as what's ok and what isn't. Why is racism banned but bashing a religion not? How about the fact that racism was closely incorporated into the page, but it still wasn't banned. You haven't provided a shred of argument to support any of facebook's actions.

p.s I assure I know the meaning of racism. If anything it is you who should look up the definition.

 

[Badran]

Fine, upstanding, practicing Muslims never needed the assistance and talents of artists to damage their faith or keep and recognize radical Muslims. If radical Muslims are the concern, the religion needs to take severe measures to weed them out because they are seriously complicating the message and purpose of Islam and turning an organized religion into a very disrespectful, disorganized religion.

Okay. Sure radicals are a disadvantage that we should deal with, but it's not exactly that easy. If it were, we wouldn't be where we are at today. In the mean time, when incidents like the one of issue here take place, it only makes things worse.

If Draw Mohammad Day was extended to be an everyday event, the amount of time, talent and resources that any artist contributes could never be as damaging or demeaning to the religion as the existence, reasons and practice of radical Muslims.

That's true. But while you are pointing the finger, you can't acknowledge the mistaken generalization which took place in this group incident.

 

[Badran]

I want to draw muhamud

Go ahead.

...who will stop me?

No one.

who will be "insulted"?

Most if not All Muslims.

and what if im insulted that you're insulted?

If you mean, that you will be insulted by the anger towards you expressing your rights of drawing Muhammad (pbuh), then you haven't gotten the point yet. It is not a personal thing, you are drawing a religious figure, not one of multiple religious figures, but The one main religious figure of Islam, who Muslims love, and they don't draw him themselves. If you can't respect this simple idea, and feel the need to prove that you don't care to respect other people's beliefs or ideas, that's up to you.

 

[Bismillah]

Unless, of course, you are a Muslim....

Then not only do you demand respect, you kill because you did not get the respect you think you should have gotten.

Yes, because every muslim would kill you in cold blood if they knew you had drawn the Prophet.

 

[Badran]

I must say that I have to congratulate the Muslim posters in this thread for the manner in which they have conducted themselves. Well done.

*Waits for the other shoe to drop* (Pun intended.)


What is curious is that the so-called "moderate" Muslims have gone too far on this one. In reality, Muslims are offended that non-Muslims exist at all and there isn't much we can do about that short bequeathing the planet to them and committing ritual suicide.

If you mean that Muslims are intolerant to others, then i completely disagree.

The problem as I see it is that Muslims are telling us, "Do NOT do this (or you will make us very angry)." So? Get angry. Perhaps the moderates need to get real angry, angry enough to point the mirror at themselves and question the sanity of putting such emphasis on a person who has been dead for 1400 years. Someone that have never met and never known. They adore a legend and that is not particularly wise. If the truth be told, Muslims have made Muhammad into a demigod and literally "hero worship" the fellow and emulate his every action. It is like the millions of little girls (and some boys) who emulate and looked up to Britney Spears or Lady Gaga. My guess is that Muslims are hypnotized by the own dogma and are not even aware that they have taken their "faith" to an unhealthy level, one that generates the kind of blow-back on their personal reality they are witnessing. That blow-back is meant to get their attention.

Like i said earlier, even if that's the case, don't you think that this kind of matters should be up to Muslims. I mean if you want to criticize that, okay. But to make Muslims face their "supposed problem" like this, is up to nobody because their "problem" harms no one.

I am going to predict that if Muslims thought the "Draw Muhammad Day" was incendiary and disrespectful, hang tight, there is more on its way and this is just the first hurdle. Think about it, being offended by a cartoon is pretty darn right petty. Does Islam encourage pettiness? Apparently it does. Then again, a disturbing amount of Muslims have little or no sense of humor about well - anything. And I think that is the crux of it. Islam, in the modern world suffers from the "Rodney Dangerfield Syndrome". It's don't get no respect. Certainly not the respect that it feels entitled to. Perhaps, just perhaps, there are very good reasons for that.

It's not much to ask, when all we expect is that others don't insult one figure that represents something important to us. I wouldn't call that a lack of sense of humor, who is to set the standard as to what should be considered humorous and what is not, and what is disrespectful. It's simple, our prophet, we love him, we respect him, we wish no one would insult him, but we will not oppress others to do so. If they want to, okay, but it doesn't make them right.

 

[mr.guy]

No, only upset over the double standards with which the West applies its much beholden freedoms.

Double standard? That's presumptuous.

Just because the practice is outlawed doesn't mean it doesn't happen, frequently.

Absolutely.

The rest of your comment was just "no". Instead of just covering your eyes and ears and shouting nonono, why don't you defend it?

Irony much?

I haven't the leisure of fabricating my points.

While i can opine on the merits of may 20th, i'm not quite as handy at declaring my [rainbow] imagination [/rainbow] as fact, as you are.

Perhaps it presented a public danger?

More's the reason to draw cartoons, then.

Any population that'll be stirred into a state by such simple means represents a constant danger;

I don't think it's worth being hypersensitive about any longer.

The fact remains that freedom of speech is arbitrarily selected as what's ok and what isn't. Why is racism banned but bashing a religion not?

Well...

...depends what you mean by "banned", and what country your in, don't it?

Hate crime legislation differs significantly, even in western countries;

Perhaps a boo at Ann Coulters' latest adventure in ottawa might illustrate the variety, here, no?

How about the fact that racism was closely incorporated into the page, but it still wasn't banned.

Your definition of racism is pitiable.
I don't accept this statement, because it's boneheaded.

You haven't provided a shred of argument to support any of facebook's actions.

I have no interest in supporting/discussing facebooks' policies...you've decided to make that my mandate, and i'm not being roped into it.

Sorry.

p.s I assure I know the meaning of racism. If anything it is you who should look up the definition.

Buddy, the fact that your definition has the word "culture" in it doesn't support your assertion that cultural discrimination is rasism.


When you said:

-"racism: a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others."

The grammatical implication is that the belief of inherent (i.e. genetic) differences among races determine the social and cultural mobility on account of their race!

Your subsequent interpretation was so wrong that i left it alone...

...i kinda, sorta thought upon rereading your post, that'd be obvious.
However, to better illustrate (as the dictionary definition you provided was lost on you) take the example:

...the assertion that my familly is descriminated agains because:

-They're southeast asian

Would easily qualify as racist.

To then go on and declare the same because:

-Makes chillie with curry

...would not.

That you would marry the two concepts...

...(and you have)...

...is your own poor synthesis for some messy, messy pleading.

I'll admit, i'm taken aback that you're so far unable to parse the distinction between the transmission inherited genetic traits and the realm of ideas. Here while free speech is the mechanism that allows no idea to be so sacred that it can't prodded, explored or ridiculed, for that matter. Just as i ridicule your horrible marriage two distinct concepts.

My sacred cow or yours, it's all up to with as we please.


Now I would, at this juncture, implore to further research the difference between :

-Genes

and

-Chilie.

Good luck!

 

[Revoltingest]

If you mean, that you will be insulted by the anger towards you expressing your rights of drawing Muhammad (pbuh), then you haven't gotten the point yet. It is not a personal thing, you are drawing a religious figure, not one of multiple religious figures, but The one main religious figure of Islam, who Muslims love, and they don't draw him themselves. If you can't respect this simple idea, and feel the need to prove that you don't care to respect other people's beliefs or ideas, that's up to you.

Therein lies the problem. Different Muslims read their sacred literature & come away with vastly different views.
Some will kill those who insult Islam in any way, & some will tolerate the insult. When a Muslim tells me that his
is a religion of peace, I understand that this is true for him. But for many others it is a religion of violent conquest.
So I judge the religion as neither good nor evil, but simply as risky......just like Xtianity.

 

[Badran]

Therein lies the problem. Different Muslims read their sacred literature & come away with vastly different views.
Some will kill those who insult Islam in any way, & some will tolerate the insult. When a Muslim tells me that his
is a religion of peace, I understand that this is true for him. But for many others it is a religion of violent conquest.
So I judge the religion as neither good nor evil, but simply as risky......just like Xtianity.

Well, at least you haven't deemed it as a bad religion due the actions of the negative, which is good.

I would add though, that if you look at the majority of Muslims, you would see that they don't fit the description of a violent or radical person. (By the majority i mean just the bigger number, not necessarily by a big difference).

 

[Revoltingest]

Well, at least you haven't deemed it as a bad religion due the actions of the negative, which is good.

That's cuz I judge people by their individual actions. Choice of religion seems somewhat unrelated to how well someone behaves.

I would add though, that if you look at the majority of Muslims, you would see that they don't fit the description of a violent or radical person. (By the majority i mean just the bigger number, not necessarily by a big difference).

I tend to agree.

 

[Badran]

That's cuz I judge people by their individual actions. Choice of religion seems somewhat unrelated to how well someone behaves.

I tend to agree.

I agree that people should be judged by their actions. Your opinion is as neutral as one would hope for.

 

[AxisMundi]

If I meant "politically correct" I would have said "politically correct."

There's a difference between "politically correct" and "polite!" Then again, simple courtesy and politeness are two things our culture apparently lacks...

Besides, I think being afraid of what violent people can do is a legitimate thing. You don't deliberately go around provoking serial killers, right? If someone warns you not to go down a certain ally because it's a well-known fact that there's a gang of thugs in it that mug, rape, and sometimes kill anyone who goes down it, you don't say "You're not the boss of me!" and walk down it just to spite them, right? And you CERTAINLY don't go around shoving holocaust jokes into survivors' faces.

You don't demand the storm's respect.

I believe most people, especially myself, reply in kind to the manner in which they are addressed.

If a person is approached in a respectful manner, I am quite certain they will get the same in return.

However, one of the inherent negative qualities of the Abrahmics, particularly the younger two, is an inherent disrepect given automatically, and in most cases unknowingly.

An Atheist doesn't appreciate their intelligence being insulted by Theits stating their religion, and/or especially some requirement to be saved, as a fact.

We non-Abrahamic Theists also don't appreciate our intelligence being insulted, and we certainly don't appreciate our religion, and especially our Gods and Goddesses, being insulted either.

 

[AxisMundi]

I think the whole idea that "Draw Muhammad Day" should be removed is ridiculous. Since when is it "wrong" to question or criticize religious dogma?

For the record, I do support hate speech laws, because we should call things what they are. Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against blacks is racism and hate speech. Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against Jews is anti-Semitism and hate speech. Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against women is sexism and hate speech.
Unreasonable and hurtful attacks against homosexuals is homophobia and hate speech. Those should all be punished when applicable, but attacking some the stupid religious dogmas of the past - whether Christianity or Islam - is an indisputable right, and is never hate speech, and is totally legal.

Are you suggesting it's ok to question/critisize relgiion but not the actions of another class of people?

 

[mr.guy]

I understand. I was giving you an example, as to why i was so persistent that you read the thread. So that you'd understand what my arguments where coming from so i don't have to repeat myself.

Also, the part about the picture, i know this may seem nothing to you. For some reason, it is something to Muslims. You want to draw Muhammad (pbuh), that' fine, that's your right. But to make a day, where you do the act that bothers all Muslims, just to show the radicals that they can't oppress you, is unfair. No matter how small the subject is, it can still be judged. Also don't forget, like i told this means a lot for Muslims, if you don't want to respect that, that is entirely up to you.

I realize this, and i'd reponded to your post specifically addressing respect towards your prophet.

I didn't (much) intend to be so confrontational...

...but...

...then again...

...i did.

As i've previously stated, i leave no quarter on this issue...it is black and white for me!

I Will bother all muslims.

If a picture bothers them, then i'll continue to next year as well!

If a picture fails to bother muslims, then i've succeeded!

 

[mr.guy]

Broken English is not an issue in comparison to the serious issues you suffer from, really.

Oh? What talent you've garnered, to make such diagnosis on so little data;

Mate, if you can prescribe something based off that, you're into some serious money!

Sometimes people with broken English can communicate million times better than those with fluent English who are good at nothing except creating gaps between people through their irrationality, idiocy, hatred and coldness.

And sometimes, not. Sometimes they illustrate more poingnantly how idiotic they actually are.

Sometimes.

 

[Madhuri]

If a picture fails to bother muslims, then i've succeeded!

There's really no reason to act like that. What is something that matters to you? What is something that might a person could do to make you upset? Should everyone start doing it until you no longer feel bothered? Is that the attitude people should have? Maybe nobody should bother about anything. Is that what you think?

The point is that it doesn't matter if you do or do not understand why Muslims would find it offensive to draw their prophet. People should not go out of their way to offend others. This Drawing Mohammad Day has the intention to offend. A person cannot make any other excuse. It has nothing to do with free speech.

 

[Badran]

I realize this, and i'd reponded to your post specifically addressing respect towards your prophet.

I didn't (much) intend to be so confrontational...

...but...

...then again...

...i did.

As i've previously stated, i leave no quarter on this issue...it is black and white for me!

I Will bother all muslims.

If a picture bothers them, then i'll continue to next year as well!

If a picture fails to bother muslims, then i've succeeded!

Well, like i told you before, it's your disgusting opinion and you are entitled to it.

 

[Revoltingest]

An Atheist doesn't appreciate their intelligence being insulted by Theits stating their religion, and/or especially some requirement to be saved, as a fact.

I'm no longer insulted by theists stating their case....as long as they're civil.
They believe that their beliefs are true & that mine are wrong. That makes sense for them.
I find them generally tolerant of my beliefs, even some of the more revolting ones.