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Repeal the 2nd Amendment

Jake1001

Computer Simulator
Maybe your society....

But what is the relationship between having a gun and being free?
My apologies, I was referring to American society, I see you are Canadian.

We are discussing the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. How do you interpret it ?

By the way, Canada has a very high per capita gun ownership too...they are 12th on the list.

True or False....did the British confiscate arms from the colonists at the start of the Revolutionary War ?

Bonus question: Did Patrick Henry rhetorically ask, shall we be stronger, "when we are totally disarmed, and when a British Guard shall be stationed in every house?"
 
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Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
My apologies, I was referring to American society, I see you are Canadian.

We are discussing the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. How do you interpret it ?

By the way, Canada has a very high per capita gun ownership too...they are 12th on the list.

True or False....did the British confiscate arms from the colonists at the start of the Revolutionary War ?

Bonus question: Did Patrick Henry rhetorically ask, shall we be stronger, "when we are totally disarmed, and when a British Guard shall be stationed in every house?"
All I am wondering is why a person says, " Look at me, I'm free" just because she is carrying or owns a gun.
 

Jake1001

Computer Simulator
All I am wondering is why a person says, " Look at me, I'm free" just because she is carrying or owns a gun.
No more so than one might say "I am free" for practicing their chosen religion, gender preference or type of car they purchase. Freedom manifests itself in hundreds or thousands of ways.
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
No more so than one might say "I am free" for practicing their chosen religion, gender preference or type of car they purchase. Freedom manifests itself in hundreds or thousands of ways.
But then you've diluted your claim that having a gun makes you free, if it's no different than having anything.
 

Jake1001

Computer Simulator
But then you've diluted your claim that having a gun makes you free, if it's no different than having anything.
I find your logic puzzling. Are you familiar with the concepts of necessary and sufficient ? I am not saying having a gun makes you free. I am saying if you are free, you choose whether or not to have a gun.
 
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Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
I find your logic puzzling. Are you familiar with the concepts of necessary and sufficient ? I am not saying having a gun makes you free. I am saying if you are free, you choose whether or not to have a gun.
My misunderstanding, then. I apologize.
 

aoji

Member

Why not just get rid of all of them? They're all antiquated, aren't they?

You can start with creating a State religion - make the U.S. a state sanctioned protestant government (say Calvinists or Quaker) and anyone who doesn't believe as such must get out of the country, not be able to hold a job, cannot own property or have a business; all atheists must leave the country or be imprisoned for 30 days and then be executed. Not ever appealing is it?

You can start by doing away with the 1st Amendment, the right of free speech and sensor the Internet. Anything said of a politician gets expunged, for example. (And don't think it is isn't already being done and that politicians aren't thinking of doing it.) TV is already being censored, the news are being censored, books are being censored, films are being censored, etc.

The 3rd Amendment is antiquated too, isn't it? Why not do away with that one? It does say "In time of Peace," doesn't it? Doesn't that mean that in time of war soldiers can walk into your home, throw you out, and take over your house? Has that happened in other countries? Surely they have during time of war, but what about in times of Peace? If the answer is "No," then why was it written into the Bill of Rights? Surely the British did it before the American Revolution. Can you, today, rationalize "Probable cause" for interring the Japanese Americans during WWII? Why weren't the Italian or German Americans interred during WWII? Seeings as Germany took over France, Poland, etc., why weren't French or Polish Americans interred? Franco ruled Spain and was in cahoots with Germany, so why weren't all the Spanish Americans interred? etc.

Would you want the 4th Amendment rescinded? We already have Passports between countries, why not make Passports necessary between States, or between Cities, or between Towns and villages? Everywhere and anywhere you go an official can detain you, demand documents, put you in jail until a judge can hear your case. Not very appealing is it? Exactly who would determine what is "unreasonable searches"? Every politician will say that it was necessary...

The 5th Amendment will certainly pose problems for most people. The politicians will re-write the laws so that they are all capital offences, so that everything is a felony. The 5th is very problematic as it says that "No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the militia, when in actual service in time of war or public danger;..." I bet those who see no need for a militia (it being the People armed) will have a problem differentiating between "land or naval forces, or in the militia,". And since the Air Forces aren't named then the State has the right (only individuals can have rights, no?) not to be 'prosecuted' should they decide to bomb houses, towns, villages, cities, states, no? Surely this is a spacious and ridiculous argument and reasoning.

Pick and choose all you want. What you're giving up is not just "their" rights, you're also giving up your own rights. The 6th, 7th and 8th Amendments obviously won't affect you because you're not guilty, but, as Spiro Agnew once said, "You have nothing to fear if you're innocent". (Paraphrased). He did get one thing right though, "Confronted with the choice, the American people would choose the policeman's truncheon over the anarchist's bomb." That is exactly what you're doing when you advocate doing away with one right - it won't be long before you have no rights whatsoever. You're throwing away the baby with the bathwater.
 

atpollard

Active Member
No.

Conversely, perhaps we should have a Constitutional Amendment guaranteeing out right to own a car.
IMHO it is the right to bear arms that protects all of the other Constitutional Rights.
I share the early colonists mistrust of a strong central government. It is necessary, but it requires a counterbalance ... like an armed population.
YMMV
 

Willamena

Just me
Premium Member
My apologies, I was referring to American society, I see you are Canadian.

We are discussing the 2nd Amendment to the US Constitution. How do you interpret it ?

By the way, Canada has a very high per capita gun ownership too...they are 12th on the list.

True or False....did the British confiscate arms from the colonists at the start of the Revolutionary War ?

Bonus question: Did Patrick Henry rhetorically ask, shall we be stronger, "when we are totally disarmed, and when a British Guard shall be stationed in every house?"
If the authorities of a police state wanted to take over, would they take away your gun or car ?
By that token, if you don't own a gun you've nothing to lose.
 

Jake1001

Computer Simulator
Thank you for your concern.
I guess we can't all be bleeding heart liberals. ;)
Interestingly, I don't think this is a liberal / conservative issue. Look at Bernie's position on gun control. I am a lib too. It is an issue of Constitutional history.
 
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